Coccidia treatment help

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Coccidia treatment help

Postby Mamaneedscoffee » Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:24 am

So we adopted (‘rescued’) a ~14 month old beardie from another family on June 20 and found upon pickup that his husbandry had been sorely lacking… fixed all of the known issues and became concerned about weird looking yellowish areas on his flanks and side. (First beardie, no real frame of reference just thought it didn’t look right after reading lots about BD’s and YFD.) Consulted our regular vet for an exotics referral and took him for appt on 6/29. Brought a fecal sample as well considering the noxious odor he had been producing.

Vet wasn’t allowing ‘parents’ inside so the dragon went in and I had to talk to him on the phone while he did the exam… he hemmed and hawed about YFD and said he didn’t think so but was sending pictures to a ‘specialist’ in Canada. (We’re in NY.) I asked about skin scraping test and he said he didn’t think those were very accurate and didn’t want to subject him to a biopsy and would look into a PCR test but warned that it would be expensive. Said beardie was underweight and to increase his feeds and offer insects more frequently than previous owners’ 1x per week. Charged $300 for the visit and sent us home with a promise to call with blood work and fecal results the next day.

I had to harass the office for 3 days before finally getting a call back with results. Apparently his blood work was okay, but fecal came back high for pinworms and coccidia(isospira) told me to come back to pick up pinworm medication and other meds would be special ordered. I asked whether there was a place I could source them more quickly myself and he said no. 🤦🏻‍♀️ (Found beardeddragon.co later) First dose of panacur was 7/2-instructions to give one dose every 2 weeks. (Seems weird but ok.)

After multiple follow up calls and literally having credit card in hand to order toltrazuril we got a call that the ponazuril was finally in on 7/13… first dose given same day. (Ponazuril 40mg/ml - give .25ml once every two weeks for a total of four doses.)

Tl;dr Our 380g beardie is getting 10mg of Ponazuril once every 2 weeks per the vet… this doesn’t seem to match up with dosing info I’m seeing here and elsewhere… I’m wondering whether we’re setting ourselves up for reinfecting failure even while we bust our butts cleaning and disinfecting his enclosure.😒

Also his weird skin spots still look weird to me but maybe I’m just being paranoid about yellowy stuck shed. 😢 (can’t remember how to post a pic in a message board🤦🏻‍♀️)
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Re: Coccidia treatment help

Postby KarrieRee » Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:28 pm

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ click on XIMG at the top of the message box then click on the pic it should post --- meantime I am flagging post to Tracie our vet tech mod she is on at late at nite - she can help you w/ the meds etc and the issue w/ the face ---
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Re: Coccidia treatment help

Postby Mamaneedscoffee » Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:08 pm

Thanks so much @KarrieRee !

Think I’ve got this picture thing figured out right…

I could be totally off the mark I just feel like the yellowy ickiness doesn’t look right… and the spots on his belly my daughter says were there before but I don’t remember seeing so many… (he also frequently belly flops onto his leftover salad which usually has some shredded carrot in it-I’ve seen that mentioned as a reason for yellowy staining so I’m crossing my fingers.) Bear in mind I’ve never seen a beardie shed in person before. (And yes his Australian sand is gone now. Poor scaly booger isn’t very happy in his sterile, paper-lined enclosure.)

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Image *kindly excuse the very battered acrylic terrarium cover we used to get a belly pic*
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Re: Coccidia treatment help

Postby Drache613 » Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:04 am

Hello,

Those spots especially on his belly, do appear to resemble fungal problems.
As far as the dose for the Ponazuril/Toltrazuril most of the time the dose is 20mg/kg. It
usually doesn't take more than a few doses to get rid of most coccidia infections. What
were the counts, did the vet tell you?
Are you treating for fungus, or not yet?

Tracie
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Re: Coccidia treatment help

Postby Mamaneedscoffee » Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:51 am

Vet didn’t give counts but said ‘typically they have a few oocysts, but there are far more than we would expect in a healthy dragon and considering his previous poor husbandry, I think it’s best to treat for both parasites.’

We aren’t treating for fungus, vet insisted he didn’t suspect it and said the ‘expert’ he consulted was doubtful and would hesitate to treat as well… knowing how serious YFD can become, I’m worried, but they’re on the herp vet list resource… so I’m torn and definitely can’t afford another $300+ trip to another herp vet… Is there a safe online resource for voriconazole?
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Re: Coccidia treatment help

Postby Mamaneedscoffee » Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:19 am

Drache613 wrote:As far as the dose for the Ponazuril/Toltrazuril most of the time the dose is 20mg/kg. It
usually doesn't take more than a few doses


Thanks so the 10mg for .38kg is just slightly over (he’s due for a weight check, hopefully he’s gained a bit since last week’s.) are the doses typically spread out so far? (Both meds were instructed to be given once every two weeks…)


I picked up lamisil and betadine just now… how often ought he be bathed? I don’t know the tradeoff between ‘bathing can spread YF’ and ‘Betadine soaks can help YF’…. And if there’s no online or other source for the voriconazole I suppose I’ll have to call again and beg the vet.🤦🏻‍♀️ The yellow belly spots photo is a week old so I’ll get updated photos when we weigh him. 🤞🏼Hopefully it hasn’t spread further.
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Re: Coccidia treatment help

Postby Mamaneedscoffee » Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:10 pm

Drache613 wrote:
Those spots especially on his belly, do appear to resemble fungal problems.
Are you treating for fungus, or not yet?

Tracie


The vet didn’t think it was YFD and sent photos to an “expert” … we took new pics today… I feel like it’s spreading. And now there are a few very dark scales mixed in on the yellow patches 😢 Left a message for the vet today to try to get a script for voriconazole but didn’t hear back and suspect I may not until Monday, now. Is there any way around a vet’s script?


He is partly through a shed currently… his tail is shedding cleanly and he’s shed his face already but not a whole lot from his trunk and belly yet… currently on blank newsprint and disinfecting enclosure daily while we treat for coccidia and pinworms. Planning to start with a betadine bath and lamisil tomorrow. Anything else we can do while waiting on the vet? TIA

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Re: Coccidia treatment help

Postby Drache613 » Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:41 am

Hello,

I have looked at the pictures a bit more & it is looking more like old patches of skin/scales
that look like it is going to shed. How is it looking today? Does it appear that he may shed
on those areas at all on his belly?
You can be proactive by using the lamisil cream daily to see if that helps out. Is he eating
anything?

Let us know how he is doing.
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Re: Coccidia treatment help

Postby Mamaneedscoffee » Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:12 am

Drache613 wrote:Hello,

I have looked at the pictures a bit more & it is looking more like old patches of skin/scales
that look like it is going to shed. How is it looking today? Does it appear that he may shed
on those areas at all on his belly?
You can be proactive by using the lamisil cream daily to see if that helps out. Is he eating
anything?

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie


I really hope that’s the case and it isn’t YF! 🤞🏼We only just picked him up 4 weeks ago today and I’m so neurotic about this guy, it’s ridiculous!🤦🏻‍♀️

He’s starting to show some bits of flaky shed around some scales on his back and his forearm are are beginning to look paler but I’m really not sure about his tummy… it’s so hard to know for sure not having seen him shed yet. His feet & legs have always looked kind of greenish-stained and a little crusty and given the condition of his enclosure when we picked it/him up, I wouldn’t doubt that *is* just stains on his feet. *But* he’s had several baths with some light baby-brush scrubbing since we got him and it hasn’t changed much.

His appetite wasn’t great when we got him, former owners had been giving him more of the red&green dry food pellets than fresh greens (they said he really only liked kale&parsley and sometimes cantaloupe) and were only feeding “25 crickets once a week”… (his poops were runny and slimy and made the entire house smell, in my husband’s words, “like death and rotten fish” for the first two weeks we had him-they’ve improved dramatically, are now mostly soft-solid with mushy urate, occasionally we see partly undigested greens or insect parts but that’s becoming less frequent) … we’ve been giving a variety of fresh greens and veggies daily (collards, dandelion greens, pea shoots, bell pepper, etc.) with a few blueberries or a sliced strawberry mixed in and a few viola flowers on top (his current favorite). Vet said to give protein more often and ‘include a couple of fatty treat worms’ since he’s underweight, so he’s been getting protein feeds 4x a week with live crickets here and there, but mostly his protein feed includes 10-20 gutloaded dubia (depending on size) and 3-5 butterworms or wax worms, always offered after he’s had his greens. We’re spritzing his greens w/liquid calcium (no D3)every other day and his feeder insects are either dusted or we’ve mixed calcium or multivitamin powder into their gut-load mix (using fresh chopped veggie scraps currently but I ordered the growth chow and bee pollen a few days ago, also have BeneBac on the way for Mushu)
We soak his greens overnight before feeding to encourage hydration and while we haven’t had much luck giving water with a dropper or syringe, we can usually catch his eye by dripping water into his leftover morning greens after he’s basked for a bit and he will run over and eat a few more wet leaves. So I guess his appetite is pretty good? 🤷🏻‍♀️ (It improved DRAMATICALLY after we got his UVB corrected.)

We’ve had the most luck injecting his Panacur and Ponazuril doses into a few blueberries because he will *always* chase and eat them if we roll them past his face. All of the dosing info I can find (including the Merck veterinary manual) says to give the Ponazuril doses 2 days apart for a total of 2-3 doses so we’re switching to that regimen for the next two doses and will drop another fecal sample at the vet for counts in 2 weeks.

His substrate upon pickup was a filthy reptile carpet and his lighting was all wrong. We corrected the lighting with proper heat, spot and a UVB tube. We had cleaned and sterilized everything and gave him a few inches of Jurassic Natural dragon Habitat sand mixture, which he loved until we had to dispose of it when we started coccicidal regimen. We’re using blank newsprint now, changing daily AND after BMs, and we’re using an ammonia solution (coccicidal disinfectant is in previously mentioned order) followed by a good rinse, then boiling water if possible and then sun-drying his food bowls and basking stones (he gets a new disposable cardboard ‘hide’ daily). His entire enclosure is being wiped out with ‘Wipe-out’ spray and then steam cleaned daily.

His basking surface temperature is around 105f, air temp 90-96f, cool side around 78-80f. Night temp bottoms out at 69f.

I’m going to have my daughter do another betadine bath and I’ll apply the lamisil to all the yellow spots again. It didn’t seem to make a difference the first time, but the bath seemed to help w/his tail shed.
(First photo on his basking stone is yesterday, blue hammock photos are today- we made a bunch of ‘disposable’ hammocks with scrap fabric so they can be changed out daily and tossed or cleaned with ammonia and boiling water because he kept pooping on his rope hammock.🙄)
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TL;dr We’re trying! 🥺
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Re: Coccidia treatment help

Postby Drache613 » Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:48 am

Hello,

How is he doing today?
You can continue using the lamisil on the affected areas just in case there are some fungal
issues going on. The spots on his tummy look a bit different than on his back. Old shed skin
can get pretty dirty & off colored in appearance.
I am sorry you have had him for such a short period of time & he has had so many issues
already.
It sounds like he is eating really well, too. Is he doing good with eating his vegetation also?
Getting the meds into his blueberries is a great idea & usually pretty effective. The meds are
both pretty gentle so he shouldn't have any side effects from either one.
How are those hammocks working out for him?

Keep us posted on him!
Tracie
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Re: Coccidia treatment help

Postby Mamaneedscoffee » Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:37 pm

Drache613 wrote:Hello,

How is he doing today?
You can continue using the lamisil on the affected areas just in case there are some fungal
issues going on. The spots on his tummy look a bit different than on his back. Old shed skin
can get pretty dirty & off colored in appearance.
I am sorry you have had him for such a short period of time & he has had so many issues
already.
It sounds like he is eating really well, too. Is he doing good with eating his vegetation also?
Getting the meds into his blueberries is a great idea & usually pretty effective. The meds are
both pretty gentle so he shouldn't have any side effects from either one.
How are those hammocks working out for him?

Keep us posted on him!
Tracie


Thanks for checking in.
He WAS eating his greens really well, but I think I jinxed his appetite. Mr. Mushu suddenly decided to snub most of his greens. He had a few blueberries and viola flowers and some shredded carrot, no interest in his kale, bok Choy or dandelion greens at all this morning.

He had another betadine soak this afternoon and then I really worked the lamisil in as best I could on his back today, and gave his yellow belly spots a good coat again, too. The areas on his back look much better, still yellowish but not so gross and crusty looking. Some bits of stuck scale shed came off his flanks in the bath and more of them while we applied the lamisil. I’m going to pick up a super soft baby toothbrush to try on his back, as the baby hairbrush doesn’t seem to get at those spots very well.

The fabric hammocks have actually worked out fairly well! We had to figure out how to reinforce the corners with some extra stitching because he’s been flopping his whole self up into it and really straining the fabric lol. But for a temporary disposable solution they’re working well!
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Re: Coccidia treatment help

Postby Mamaneedscoffee » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:42 pm

Drache613 wrote:Keep us posted on him!
Tracie

Hiya,
Mr Mushu’s appetite is still really off… he spent most of Monday and Tuesday sitting under his basking light and wasn’t interested in his salads at all… my daughter managed to get him to eat a couple of butterworms Monday and on Tuesday he ate 3 smallish dubias and a few blueberries but he’s been very ‘blah’ and acting depressed and she was convinced the lamisil on his back was making him feel uncomfortable so we gave him another soak last night, set up two trays of warm water side by side in his enclosure under his lights… he perked up, splashing around while we rinsed off the residual lamisil and then we changed the water, he splashed around some more and drank some water while we tried giving a gentle scrub w/ an extra soft toothbrush which actually seemed to work well, lots of flakes of old shed came off his back through his soak&scrub process, including several thick ‘casts’ of his side spikes, must’ve been a few layers stuck there … he switched back and forth between the two tubs every few minutes and we dumped and refilled with clean water each time, the last few water changes we added betadine when we were sure he was done drinking. He also pooped in one of the tubs, so we thought maybe he had been needing to go and that might be why he was grumpy. (Last poop before that was Sunday evening.)

He seemed to enjoy his spa treatment until he decided he was done and climbed out… we dried him and his enclosure, changed his paper lining and let him bask til he was completely dry and his temps & humidity were back where they belonged and then he went to sleep in his usual corner.

This morning he looked much better outwardly (it looks like he may be starting to shed around the edges of his belly finally🤞🏼And the yellow spots appear to have faded in color) but still he’s been entirely uninterested in his food (completely ignored his salad AND dubias today) and pretty much wanted to sit on his rock and bask all day. My daughter brought him out and he ran around on a clean bedsheet on her bedroom floor for a bit, but went straight back to his rock after. He’s laying on it now(8pm), looking depressed again. 🥺 He had another small mostly solid poop with a bit of runny urate today. His basking rock’s surface temp holds steady at 105-106 and the infrared thermometer says his back after lying here for hours is 107-109… is that okay for him??

I realized I hadn’t checked the shipping info Saturday and stupidly added feeder chow to the order, so it looks like it’s still a few days til his benebac, beenpollen, etc. will arrive… any other suggestions for getting his appetite back? I’m worried about this scaly guy, seems that he’s really not feeling well, but I was under the impression that the Ponazuril was a relatively gentle med… Could it be he’s ‘depressed’ from his boring quarantine enclosure conditions? My daughter has been hoping to get him outside for some real sun and enrichment but the humidity outside has been hovering around 90-95% here the past few days so it didn’t seem like a great idea.

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