Feeling very conflicted with the vets advice

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Feeling very conflicted with the vets advice

Postby Kyzer » Tue May 11, 2021 4:48 pm

So we did a fecal on our 7.5 month old beardie Yoshi last Thursday and got the results back today.

He had a few parasites that they said would need treating.

One was low levels of coccidia

The two other parasites she said were mid level, but would only be trouble if left untreated.

Yoshi also seems to have a bit of an infection on his back. He is shedding and I think when we were bathing him the other day I might of peeled the shed too far back accidentally when petting him.

There is a few tiny red marks so he will be treated

He has been given Flamazine cream for his back, and Baycox 5% and Metronidazole 100mg for the parasites

Now to go over what I'm conflicted about. The vet grilled us on our husbandry, and diet.

I explained that the breeder we got him from provided care instructions and that we have been following it.
I explained the following: he is in a 4x2x2 terrarium, ceramic tile as substrate, 24 inch reptisun t5 for UVB and a 125 w mercury vapor for basking and his humidity on the basking side is between 0 to 12% and 25 to 34 % on cool side, and that temps on his basking rock measured with prob are between 103-106 and 84 to 92 on cool side.

His diet consist of a salad every morning of field greens, mixed with dandelion leaves , baby mustard green, baby bok Choy leaves, cilantro, and parsley leaves.

His proteins consist of 50 to 80 bsfl for breakfast and dusted crickets for dinner which he usually eats between 30 to 50.

The Dr told us his basking temps are to high and should be between 90-95, that his humidity is way to low, and that it should be between 30 and 40%.

As well she said that Bsfl isn't a good staple and we should stick to Crickets and Meal worms.

Finally she finished by saying at 7 months his femoral pores were rather small and not that visible and there's a good chance he is a she, but then said she may be wrong and has been in the past .

I questioned that he seems pretty big for a female at 7 months he is 21 inches and 429 grams.

The only thing she said that made sense to me was that we shouldn't be dusting his crickets with calcium every day like the breeder suggested.

Most of what the vet recommended seems to contradict everything I read in terms of temps and food choices on this site, from the breeder, and every where else I've researched.

This vet came highly recommended by the reptile pet store I do alot of my shopping at so I'm a bit disappointed.

Any one have any advice , and is my concern warranted here?

Thank you for reading Kyzer.
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Re: Feeling very conflicted with the vets advice

Postby AHBD » Wed May 12, 2021 4:44 am

Hi Kyzer, I'd say that your husbandry is good for the most part but I do agree that the humidity should be up to at least 25 %. In their native Australia and in captivity here in the states + Europe it gets MUCH higher than that at times so there is no reason to worry. It's O.K to offer the calci worms but I think they're over rated and expensive for large dragons. Can you post a pic of his tank + also post one with his tail arched up so I can sex him/her for you. Arch the tail back like this :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/articles/sexing/ [ Just scroll down a bit to the pictures ]
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Re: Feeling very conflicted with the vets advice

Postby KarrieRee » Wed May 12, 2021 5:24 am

I agree w/ AHBD BSFL are a good source for food -- older dragons are hard to feed cuz they are so small that is why they are a great staple for babies but hes 7 months old so I would continue to feed them -- your hygrometer should be placed in the center back wall of the tank - I use a digital probe in my two and it reads the whole tank -the humidity level he gave is optimal -- mine run about 30-40% but for some reason this winter being the first I had to actually run a humidifier my tanks were getting too low -- beings hes 7 months old now I would lower the basking temps to 95-100- its great to offer them a gradient heat so he can pick a spot of the temp where he wants to bask --- a good piece of decor that offers different places to sit lay on or stand against would offer that --- I would not feed Yoshi meal worms yet -- they can cause impaction in little ones -- I would stick to the BSFL and crickets or dubia roaches I recommend them along w/ a few super worms horn worms silk worms and butter worms -- all are good treat worms w/ the exception of the silk they are a good staple as well
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Re: Feeling very conflicted with the vets advice

Postby AHBD » Wed May 12, 2021 5:30 am

Karrie it's a 7 month old, 21", I guess you missed it. Plenty big for mealworms or superworms. :lol:
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Re: Feeling very conflicted with the vets advice

Postby KarrieRee » Wed May 12, 2021 5:35 am

I guess I just am not hot on meal worms under a year old -- :)
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Re: Feeling very conflicted with the vets advice

Postby Kyzer » Wed May 12, 2021 6:00 am

Thanks guys I feel like a *****, I swore I read humidity can go down ton pretty much zero on the basking side because they are desert animals.

Also sorry he/she is 8.5 months old not 7. 5 .

I have no problem cutting out bsfl if that would be better for him. I was told they are the best staple behind dubia, but unfortunately dubia are illegal in Canada as well as Locust i believe, that's why crickets is the other staple

I mean comparing the nutritional value between bsfl and meal worms bsfl is 68% moisture 15.5 % pro 8%fat and 43 to 100 mg calcium

Meal worms 62% moisture 20% pro 13% fat and 13 to 100 mg calcium.

I just heard the high calci count. In bsfl makes them such a great option as well as it was part of the breeder care guide

The last few weeks to lower cost from the Bsfl he's. Been getting a mixture of 50 bsfl and 5 meal worms and 1 horn worm for breakfast which gets his lazy butt off his basking spot

His absolute favorite are Horn worms though and I'm sure he would eat those all day if we let him.


One of the issues we've noticed though prior to the fecal exam was his stool always had a couple undigested bsfl. The vet thinks that's from the parasites .

I'll try get a pic up of his tail raised hard right now because I'm dealing with a broken hand but when my Gf gets back ill get it up
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Re: Feeling very conflicted with the vets advice

Postby AHBD » Wed May 12, 2021 6:07 am

Your dragon can easily eat 15-20 mealworms in his varied diet. I've always fed mealworms to all dragons over 12", just start out with a smaller amount at that size. The big guys know how to chew them and the proper temps. digest them with no problem. The bsfl coming out undigested is actually common, it's because they eat them without chewing and they come out whole. It has nothing to do with parasites at all. One of the websites that sells them even explains that it is common .
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Re: Feeling very conflicted with the vets advice

Postby Gail » Fri May 14, 2021 5:51 am

There is a lot of misinformation about meal worms. They are fine to feed provided they are the proper size and the basking temps are hugh for proper digestion.
I've actually raised a number of babies on mealies, including the one I have now. He is being switched to supers now at 10"

As far as basking temps go, I've noticed the recommended number keeps going up as the years pass.
When I first started keeping dragon, basking temps where common at 90-100, now they are all the way up to 110. I've not ever had a dragon bask at temps that high, 101 is about the max my dragon likes, any higher and he won't bask at all.
I tell people 105 max, though I personally try to stay 95-100. I just can't get on board with the really high temps, especially when I see dragons rejecting them.
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Re: Feeling very conflicted with the vets advice

Postby Claudiusx » Fri May 14, 2021 6:51 am

All a matter of knowing your dragon and other factors of your enclosure such as size of your basking area. I think 100-110 is a good range to give, simply because it's a range, not a hard and fast rule. As you get to know your dragon and learn more about what it likes and does not like, you can adjust. Over the years I've had dragons that absolutely refuse to bask if the surface temp is over 96, and I've had others who sat very happily at 105.

You simply adjust to what your dragon likes, as long as it is still within range of what is healthy. In my OPINION, what is healthy is nothing lower than 95, and nothing over 110 (although I know some people I respect who have provided areas of 115, but this was in a big enclosure with multiple basking options).

And for what it's worth if you are bored, here is a little article I threw together on mealworms:
viewtopic.php?f=88&t=250599
I agree with Gail, I too have raised countless babies on mealworms.
That also being said, I still like BSFL for adults, and my adults get BSFL on occasion too. They are a good feeder, but you do not need to be dusting with calcium if you are using them solely.

-Brandon
Follow along with all my beardies. Check out my thread here!: Claud's Crew
P.S. We have lots of pictures ;)
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Re: Feeling very conflicted with the vets advice

Postby Kyzer » Fri May 14, 2021 9:34 am

Thank you everyone for the responses. I am going to upload a few pics 1. The fecal exam findings 2. A few pics for sexing purposes and 3. Pics of my dragons back that is/was infected due to the shed coming off prematurely.

I'm posting info on the fecal exam because I'm still concerned. Yoshi is barely eating , he literally will only eat his horn worm and maybe 4 bsfl and 2 or 3 meal worms during morning feeding, he ate 10 to 12 crickets in the evening yesterday as well. This low appetite is so uncharacteristic from his usual one of 50+ bsfl in the Morning, and 30 to 40 crickets in the evening.
He also began drinking water vigorously from a dropper yesterday, we've never been able to get him to drink water prior.

2. Pictures of his skin the vet gave us flamazine for the rash/infection. After two days of use I have now noticed what looks to be a chunk missing out of his back, could this ointment be damaging his skin?

3. Lastly the pics for identifying sex. I'm starting to believe Yoshi is a she because she is very sweet and calm and he/she rarely blackens the beard when angry, and is not aggressive at all.

Anyways our main concerns are the appetite, the skin infection/rash and the sudden want to drink water from a dropper for the first time since we got Yoshi December 3rd 2020

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Re: Feeling very conflicted with the vets advice

Postby KarrieRee » Fri May 14, 2021 9:38 am

We need to have Tracie look at the pics and advise-
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Re: Feeling very conflicted with the vets advice

Postby Kyzer » Fri May 14, 2021 10:26 am

KarrieRee wrote:We need to have Tracie look at the pics and advise-


OK as of now all I no is yoshi has low levels of coccidia, and moderate levels of the other parasites, I'm not sure if his other meds taking are contributing to the lack of appetite, but Yoshi is still very alert, pooping, and basking as usual.

The skin and the now suddenly wanting to drink from a dropper have us really concerned though.

The vet offered to do full blood work, but with the cost of the fecal exam , the exam, and meds it came out to just under $300 we couldn't afford the additional $150
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Re: Feeling very conflicted with the vets advice

Postby KarrieRee » Fri May 14, 2021 10:29 am

The meds are dehydrating him keep him hydrated- w/ the dropper- and the meds will effect the appetite
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Re: Feeling very conflicted with the vets advice

Postby Gail » Fri May 14, 2021 11:46 am

You have a male, congratulations. Gender has no standing on personality or temperament. I've had really nasty females and puppy tame males.
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Re: Feeling very conflicted with the vets advice

Postby Kyzer » Fri May 14, 2021 12:49 pm

Gail wrote:You have a male, congratulations. Gender has no standing on personality or temperament. I've had really nasty females and puppy tame males.


Wow thanks! The vet said she thought he is female because his femoral pores should be more developed by this age then they are, I tried the flash light trick with the hemipenal bulges but had a hard time telling as he kept squirming
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