Mouth Rot not healing?

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Mouth Rot not healing?

Postby MattBuckley45 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:45 am

Hi all,

Unfortunately after a vet visit last week (10 days ago now) I was told my beardie has mouth rot. She has swelling on either side of jaw/gums and inside looks a little yellow-is on the gums. I thinks she has had it for a while as I thought it could be slight MBD but clearly misdiagnosed it (my fault). Anyway, I have been giving her Baytrill every day for the last ten days, as well as using tamodine on the 'affected' areas. She's becoming very stressed, hates it when I give her medication and she licks the tamodine right off. Her gums still look exactly the same and there seems to be no progress at all. I'm really worried about her :(.
She isn't eating greens (didn't much before anyway) and only eating roaches every now and then. Could she be resistant to baytrill? What can I do guys? I'm seeing the vet again Friday for a check up after the antibiotics should be finished and she should be cleared up by then but that isn't going to happen. After a phone call with the vet he said to stop giving her the medication if its stressing her out too much as its important she still eats. I'm just worried - what can I do? What do you guys recommend?


Thank you!
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Re: Mouth Rot not healing?

Postby AHBD » Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:44 am

Hi there, can you post pics, like some of his mouth open if possible and his tank + set up ? What type of lights do you have + what are the temps ? You can get a product called Maxi gel or Maxi guard to rub on his gums with a Q-tip or use hydrogen peroxide. I'm not sure how long it takes for the antibiotics to work but this might help.
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Re: Mouth Rot not healing?

Postby MattBuckley45 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:42 am

AHBD wrote:Hi there, can you post pics, like some of his mouth open if possible and his tank + set up ? What type of lights do you have + what are the temps ? You can get a product called Maxi gel or Maxi guard to rub on his gums with a Q-tip or use hydrogen peroxide. I'm not sure how long it takes for the antibiotics to work but this might help.

Hello,
Thank you for replying. My set up is pretty good. Hot side 43 degrees cold side 23 degrees (roughly) long strip UVB with reflector reptisun. Trying to attach photos hopefully they work?
[Click image to enlarge]

[Click image to enlarge]

[Click image to enlarge]


It’s kind of hard to see the swelling on the side of her gums but hope this helps. Is there better medication she can be put on? What do you guys recommend? It looks to me like the infection has spread into her jaw as her jaw is soft and swollen.

Thank you
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Re: Mouth Rot not healing?

Postby AHBD » Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:46 am

I can't see the inside but the what I CAN see doesn't look bad. Is it red inside or is their pus ? Try the mouth rub that I mentioned.
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Re: Mouth Rot not healing?

Postby MattBuckley45 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:12 am

AHBD wrote:I can't see the inside but the what I CAN see doesn't look bad. Is it red inside or is their pus ? Try the mouth rub that I mentioned.

Thank you, I’ll try that.
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Re: Mouth Rot not healing?

Postby loljelloclowdz » Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:26 pm

Also never give calcium within 30 minutes before or after giving baytril as it will inactivate it. Leave her a bit hungry before administering the medication (I’m on antibiotics too and I hate having to wait to eat) and wait half an hour until feeding her.
Marijke - 50% red 50% yellow hypo het trans female w/ blue bars from Kids And Dragons
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Re: Mouth Rot not healing?

Postby Drache613 » Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:08 am

Hello,

That doesn't look too bad. Could it be a mouth injury from a possible bite from an insect?
The Maxi guard or raw pasteurized honey can definitely help. As suggested just use a
swab or q-tip to use for application.
Are you using a digital probe or temp gun to measure the temperatures in his tank?

Tracie
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Re: Mouth Rot not healing?

Postby MattBuckley45 » Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:11 am

Drache613 wrote:Hello,

That doesn't look too bad. Could it be a mouth injury from a possible bite from an insect?
The Maxi guard or raw pasteurized honey can definitely help. As suggested just use a
swab or q-tip to use for application.
Are you using a digital probe or temp gun to measure the temperatures in his tank?

Tracie


Hello,

Perhaps the photos don't do it justice - I'll try and get more when I'm home this afternoon. It can't be a bite as I don't let any bugs stay in his viv overnight. His jaw is definitely quite swollen and almost squishy (although not MBD as I asked the vet to check that). I will try the maxi guard if I can get it in the UK? I used a temp gun. Thanks for your replies. I am worried about my beard - the vet said he's seen worse cases of mouth rot but it still needs to be fixed!
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Re: Mouth Rot not healing?

Postby Drache613 » Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:47 pm

Hello,

I certainly hope that he doesn't have some type of abscess. Since you mentioned that it is
soft & squishy in nature, it is possible that something punctured or injured the lining of his
mouth & it got bacteria into it somehow.
How is he doing today?

Tracie
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Re: Mouth Rot not healing?

Postby MattBuckley45 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:02 am

Drache613 wrote:Hello,

I certainly hope that he doesn't have some type of abscess. Since you mentioned that it is
soft & squishy in nature, it is possible that something punctured or injured the lining of his
mouth & it got bacteria into it somehow.
How is he doing today?

Tracie


Hi Tracie,

Thank you for your reply. How could I tell if he has an abscess? It's on both sides of his jaw and it protrudes out and kind of unfolds slightly? If I'm honest I don't see day to day changes - he's had it for so long. It looks less orange when I pull his lip back but it's still swollen and protrudes out. Really hope the vet can do something Friday as the baytrill has done nothing. Any suggestions?
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Re: Mouth Rot not healing?

Postby Drache613 » Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:56 am

Hello,

How is she doing today? You are sure she does not have bone issues?
Which UVB are you using?
It is possible that the Baytril isn't working for the particular bacteria if mouth rot is present.
They could consider another antibiotic perhaps. There is Ceftz/Fortaz, AZT which is very
good but it is not an antibiotic actually but an antimicrobial agent. They should take a mouth
culture to send off to the lab to see exactly what type of bacteria is present to help them make
a better diagnosis & choice of drug treatment, next.

Let us know how the vet visit goes.
Tracie
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Re: Mouth Rot not healing?

Postby MattBuckley45 » Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:10 am

Drache613 wrote:Hello,

How is she doing today? You are sure she does not have bone issues?
Which UVB are you using?
It is possible that the Baytril isn't working for the particular bacteria if mouth rot is present.
They could consider another antibiotic perhaps. There is Ceftz/Fortaz, AZT which is very
good but it is not an antibiotic actually but an antimicrobial agent. They should take a mouth
culture to send off to the lab to see exactly what type of bacteria is present to help them make
a better diagnosis & choice of drug treatment, next.

Let us know how the vet visit goes.
Tracie



Hi Tracie,

Yeah it wouldn't make sense for it to be a bone issue. I use a 4ft UVB reptisun tube with a reflector installed and always have. Replacing it every 6 months.
I want them to do a culture and I think that will be best - are they invasive on my beardie? Do you know how long they take to return? Should I refuse more drugs and instead wait for a culture? Are injections better for beardies then oral medicine? Vets tomorrow afternoon - I'll let you know how it goes. Thank you!
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Re: Mouth Rot not healing?

Postby AHBD » Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:23 am

A quick question, does her mouth [ lip ] hang open on it's own like when you pull it down or are her
lips closed normally like in your pic of her here:

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploa ... _large.jpg

In this pic her jaw looks normal so please post more pics to show what swelling you see. I actually don't see anything wrong. There's usually redness on the mouth edges with mouth rot and a cheesy pus on the gums. Most dragons won't eat with advanced mouth rot because it's too painful and they feel too sick. I also looked back at your pics from August, mouth looks the same. It does not appear that there is any problem at all. Unless there is a cheesy pus in the mouth on the gums your vet is mistaking natural mouth + gum color [ some ARE yellowish ] for mouth rot. She is still eating but may soon stop if you keep stressing her from the forced treatment and harsh antibiotics.
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Re: Mouth Rot not healing?

Postby MattBuckley45 » Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:14 am

AHBD wrote:A quick question, does her mouth [ lip ] hang open on it's own like when you pull it down or are her
lips closed normally like in your pic of her here:

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploa ... _large.jpg

In this pic her jaw looks normal so please post more pics to show what swelling you see. I actually don't see anything wrong. There's usually redness on the mouth edges with mouth rot and a cheesy pus on the gums. Most dragons won't eat with advanced mouth rot because it's too painful and they feel too sick. I also looked back at your pics from August, mouth looks the same. It does not appear that there is any problem at all. Unless there is a cheesy pus in the mouth on the gums your vet is mistaking natural mouth + gum color [ some ARE yellowish ] for mouth rot. She is still eating but may soon stop if you keep stressing her from the forced treatment and harsh antibiotics.


Hello,

Thank you for taking the time to reply and help me. Her jaw does close on its now however does droop/protrude out. With all other traditional bearded dragons I've seen (google) the lower lip looks healthy and meets the upper lip and forms a seal. That isn't really the case with Joey (my bearded dragon) as her lower lip kind of folds out. I will upload photos as soon as I'm home from work. I will list her symptoms here:

Droopy lip - kind of folds out.
When pulling her jaw back, I can see small black spots (what I presume it tar?)
Does seem to have a lot of saliva in her mouth when I pull her gum back - although this could be misleading as I'm not sure what amount of saliva is normal.
No puss/cheese substance.
Hard to see her teeth? Worried they might have retracted into her gums.

Would a culture discover if there is any bacteria present at all for mouth rot? Would a culture save her from enduring more antibiotics if unnecessary?

Just want what's best for her!

Will upload pictures when home as said.

Thanks!
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Re: Mouth Rot not healing?

Postby CooperDragon » Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:34 am

I agree that some more photos would be helpful. From what I see in the photos, I agree with the others that it doesn't look bad. The soft jaw is concerning, but I don't see signs of mouth rot. Their mouths don't always line up perfectly and a bit of extra tissue around the edges of their mouth is not uncommon. Did the vet take x-rays to verify bone density?

I've included a couple of photos of Dundee for reference that show moderate stomatitis. You can see the redness and how his lips curled and swelled all the way around. More wounded looking than what I see in the photos you posted earlier.

[Click image to enlarge]


[Click image to enlarge]
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