One eye closed and smaller, both are crusty

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One eye closed and smaller, both are crusty

Postby NightRaysMoon » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:58 am

Dio has been sleeping every day but his eyes keep getting crusty every day even though no debris/objects to cause discharge. One eye is smaller and shut most of the time. The other eye gets a bit more crust. I do use a wet cotton swab to clean the gunk off. None are swollen.
His lips have scabs that are taking a long time to heal.
I use infrared nighttime lights at night. It is just to cold downstairs to have no lights. Two normal basking lights and a coil UVB lightbulb. No buts, these are PERFECT for his type of enclosure/tank.
I need to know if Dio has parasites/infections or not on his eyes and lips.
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Re: One eye closed and smaller, both are crusty

Postby KarrieRee » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:37 am

The night lights are a NO NO along w/ the coil UVB --- this is the reason for all the eye issues -- please get rid of the nights at light one it disrupts their sleep and cause eye issues --- the coil also causes eye issues - I recommend getting a CHE ceramic heat emitter it produces heat NO light and get rid of the coil ---

Which UVB light should I use?
The best UVB light is a ReptiSun 10.0 fluorescent tube HO (Or Arcardia 12% in the UK). Compact or coil bulbs do not emit the proper amount of UVB light for a bearded dragon, and should not be used. Other brands, such as the Zilla Desert Series and ReptiGlo have been known to cause eye problems and other health issues with bearded dragons, and should be avoided. The reason that some UVB lights (Zilla, ReptiGlo, coils/compacts, ect.) are considered dangerous is because the wavelength of UVB that they emit is shorter and more intense than the wavelength of the "safe" lights (ReptiSun, Arcadia). UVB lights should be replaced every 6 months. The T5’s are a strong bulb and only need to be replaced once a year – the T 8 every 6 months--- where as the T 8 are not as strong—they need to be placed inside the tank the T 5 10.0 bulb approx 12-15 inches from basking spot – the T 8 approx 6-8 inches from basking spot—the cover needs to be off the bulb for full effect of the UVB rays--
I would replace the UVB ASAP and shut the colored bulbs off
Here is what I would get for a UVB if your tank is 40+ gallon or if you plan to upgrade soon
https://www.reptilesupplyco.com/wholesa ... o-med.html this comes w/ 5.0 bulb hang onto it its considered to be a T 8
this bulb
https://www.reptilesupplyco.com/t5-uvb- ... o-med.html
This place is out of CA I would call them first before ordering to see how long shipping is
916-226-4089
You can also look in the area where you live to see if you can get it locally --
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Re: One eye closed and smaller, both are crusty

Postby NightRaysMoon » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:52 am

The ceramic bulb is just an upside down stove and the reptisun t5/t8 is NOT ideal for this tank’s depth.
The night becomes brumation levels of cold and in the basement may prove fatal so those lights are Dio’s saving grace. His issues were present when I got him from the previous owner.
Last edited by NightRaysMoon on Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: One eye closed and smaller, both are crusty

Postby KarrieRee » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:08 am

I cant help you anymore I recommended and told you what the issue is -- if you do not fix the lighting in the tank hes going to continue to get sicker - I dont know what a upside down stove bulb is and being the Reptisun bulb is not ideal for his tank of which I already recommended what to replace w/ your dragon is going to end up alot sicker than what he is - its just begining
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Re: One eye closed and smaller, both are crusty

Postby AHBD » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:12 am

Hi there, can you post pics of Dio's eyes as well as his set up ? Here's how :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload them
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Re: One eye closed and smaller, both are crusty

Postby NightRaysMoon » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:48 am

AHBD wrote:Hi there, can you post pics of Dio's eyes as well as his set up ? Here's how :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload them

[Click image to enlarge]

[Click image to enlarge]

[Click image to enlarge]

[Click image to enlarge]


@AHBD Here’s the images. His setup (from the photo view right to left) has a 125 or 150w basking floodlight mounted on a stand, next is a 60w red nighttime light, in the middle is I think a 75w coil UVB, the next is a I think 75w red light, last is a basking light that I don’t know the wattage of.
The closed eye is the smaller eye and the last two pictures are his other eye. Hopefully this helps with the diagnostic. Thanks for helping me, I greatly appreciate your questions.
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Re: One eye closed and smaller, both are crusty

Postby AHBD » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:11 pm

That's a pretty nice set up, I'd have a thicker log though rather than the thin one which would have been great when she was smaller. I do agree that the colored lights may be affecting her eyes as well as possibly the coil uvb. How cold does it get in her tank at night with no lights ? As long as it doesn't go below 63 F at night it's fine with no heat source. Otherwise a CHE is recommended. To soothe her eye you might get some Terramycin ointment like this.

https://bug-de-lite.com/Item/Terramycin

You can also use raw unpasteurized honey diluted 1 part to 4 parts warm water as an antimicrobial. But I think if you get a long tube Reptisun uvb and get rid of the red lights it might help the eye problem.
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Re: One eye closed and smaller, both are crusty

Postby Claudiusx » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:28 pm

Hi there,

The eye definitely looks to be bothering him.

The thing with eye issues, is there is really only a few things that can cause them. Some foreign body got into the eye (such as dust, dirt, shed, etc.) or the lighting is affecting the eye.

I know you feel quite confident in your current setup, but I would implore you to consider that given the likely causes of eye issues, in this case, it most likely is your lighting.

The suggestions AHBD gave for treating the eye are great. But you also need to look into fixing the source of the eye issue too.

To directly answer your question
NightRaysMoon wrote:I need to know if Dio has parasites/infections or not on his eyes and lips.

Parasites wouldn't cause any of those issues. The eye can become infected if the source of irritation stays present, watch for colored discharge from the eye.

Good luck, keep us updated.

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Re: One eye closed and smaller, both are crusty

Postby NightRaysMoon » Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:53 am

I now understand about the nighttime lights’ effects.
We have a black nighttime light, will that be a little more soothing on Dio’s eyes? I don’t know the exact temperature but currently in the fall it gets below 18 degrees Celsius downstairs at night.
I have been planning to get a heated blanket since the heating mat is not able to get the warmth past the glass. He does have a heating rock from his previous home. By touching it; it seems to have modules to control the heat, so I guess a little smarter than a hot glue gun. Dio only uses it if he feels cold. While the ceramic bulb is a good option, I have nowhere to safely secure it, plus I fear burning my house down.
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Re: One eye closed and smaller, both are crusty

Postby Claudiusx » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:56 am

Hi there,

Glad you were able to do some research on the subject :)

If I were in your shoes, I would just buy a CHE and place it in one of the fixtures you are using for the red/black bulb. As long as it's a ceramic socket and not a plastic socket, it will do fine.
18c is right about where we recommend adding supplemental heat. That's about 65f. I've let my night time temps drop below 60 (15c) and sometimes even 55 (12c) without any ill effects. But for most cases we just stick to the recommendation of not letting it drop below 65f.

I still would urge against any night time light producing bulb. Remember, dragons have an extra cone in their eyes. This means they can see much more of the lighting spectrum than humans can. So if you can see the light a bulb is producing, your dragon can too; and most likely in a much more vivid and strong fashion. That's why CHE's are great for adding heat at night. No visible light, just warmth. IME, and what I've seen here over the years, dragons do much better when they are able to sleep in the complete dark.

-Brandon
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Re: One eye closed and smaller, both are crusty

Postby NightRaysMoon » Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:56 am

Mom said no CHE/ceramic bulbs. We both agree (with the staff member at Pisces) it won’t work with an open wire lid. It could melt the wire. Are heated blankets (for cats and dogs) an okay alternative to producing heat? We have a fireplace behind his enclosure; maybe that can help?
I understand that CHE is better but it cannot function safely or properly in his setup. (TBH, I don’t want to burn my fingers just to open the lid TwT)
I have neglected to mention my father returns from work at 1AM so the basement/downstairs living room lights do get turned on for at least 2 hours at midnight. Dio got mad at dad for doing that on his first night in his new home. Sometimes mom needs to get up as early as 4AM to get ready for work.
Not trying to argue, I just need a safe nighttime heat source at this point. Thanks for the help~.
(Edit) the “discharge” in Dio’s eyes resembles that crusty gunk we get on our eyes in the morning. Although they are two different things caused by different occurrences.
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Re: One eye closed and smaller, both are crusty

Postby Claudiusx » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:17 am

Hi Breanna,

Don't worry I dont think you're arguing, we are just discussing things :)
I understand your family isnt comfortable with it. If thats the case, you probably wont change their mind.
I do want to mention though, just for your own knowledge on the subject (and perhaps you can mention it to your family if you care to say anything)-
Your screen top is made either of metal wire, fiberglass, or nylon. If it's metal, it will most likely be aluminum. That won't melt until it gets near 315c. Fiberglass won't melt until it's nearing 1000c. And nylon won't melt until it's over 210c.
So in all of those cases, whatever material your screen is made out of, it will be able to hold up to the heat the CHE produces. And from looking at your pictures, your screen appears to be made of aluminum. So you really would be safe using just a small 60w CHE such as this:
https://www.amazon.com/Reptile-Ceramic- ... B017RCQ4JO
However, if you place the CHE right over the plastic (say a corner of your tank) it will melt. So if you were to place it for instance where you have that middle lamp placed in your picture, it will do just fine.
But, that's up to you to decide if it makes you and your family feel comfortable enough.

If it's only getting down to 65f at night, you really don't even need any extra heat like I mentioned earlier. Personally I don't mind letting it drop to 60 either.

Heat blankets usually have a safety timer that goes off after 30 minutes or so. You could try out a seed germination heat mat that has a thermostat on it. You can place the heat mat under your tank, and then place the thermostat probe to the floor of the tank and set it at something like 65-70 degrees.
I use this for my dubia bin, but it would work possibly for your situation:
https://www.amazon.com/VIVOSUN-Seedling ... NrPXRydWU=

However it really wouldn't be as effective as the CHE. I know you're probably tired of hearing that at this point, so I'll leave it at that :)

Keep us updated

-Brandon
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Re: One eye closed and smaller, both are crusty

Postby NightRaysMoon » Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:53 am

I spoke further with my mom and she is willing to get it if the temperature drops low enough ^-^”>. According to her the house stays around 20c throughout the day and the night. When I point a digital thermometer at it to scan the room/ambient temperature, around the tank (with the primary basking light and UVB light on); it registered at 22.6c.
We agreed (after I got out of school) to try no lights at night for a week. This morning the temperature said 20c on his thermometer. The thermometer is wired to a suction cup probe and a suction cup humidity gadget. Is that thermometer the stick-on type I’ve been hearing about? Or are the stick-ons like an electrical sticker?
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Re: One eye closed and smaller, both are crusty

Postby Claudiusx » Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:17 am

That's good news :)

If the thermometer you have has a probe, it's not the bad kind. The bad kind are the analoge ones like this:
Image
20c over night is perfectly fine :)

So is your basking surface (when the heat lamp is on) only getting to 22.6 during the day? Or did I misunderstand what you wrote.

-Brandon
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Re: One eye closed and smaller, both are crusty

Postby NightRaysMoon » Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:48 am

The time I measured was during one evening before adding a second basking light. I used a digital thermometer meant for human use. He has his own thermometer but at the time I wanted a second reading that did surface and ambient temperatures.

It's been a week, and there has been a subtle improvement. One eye still gets crusty but it doesn't seal shut. He seems to alternate which eye he uses.
The second issue that I've yet to figure out; is his lips. It looks so sore and hasn't healed. Is there anything that can help with that?
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