T8 question - Updated with new light pics - did I get it?

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Re: T8 question

Postby WinFam01 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:41 pm

So I guess I'm thinking we will go with a T5 and see what we think with it on top. Or maybe we will mount it inside but a bit farther from the basking spot where I think we could get it *diagonally* far enough away (if that's considered acceptable).
Last edited by WinFam01 on Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: T8 question

Postby WinFam01 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:46 pm

KarrieRee wrote:That to me is mesh--- and it would block 30% of the T 8's rays --- it needs to go inside the tank if that is what your trying to determine
Karrie

Being that it seems like I'm getting feedback that T5s are vastly superior to T8, I'm revisiting which to actually go with.
If I'm reading the uvb chart correctly, it looks like a T8 doesn't even have as much output as a 26w non tube bulb??
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Re: T8 question

Postby KarrieRee » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:57 pm

You dont want a coil-- here is some info on the 26 watt coil
The 26w version of the UVB150 is similar in output to a T8 tube when using a reflector. The beam isn't as wide (depending on the length of the tube) but the output strength is very similar. If it was sitting about 6-8'' above the main basking area then it was likely providing adequate UVB. It's the lower wattage (13w) versions that cause concern since they aren't strong enough to provide adequate UVB at a safe distance.
If you are trying to determine as to what to use or get I dont know what you have now but I would get a 24" fixture w/ a reflector and a Reptisun 10.0 T 5 or a Arcadia 12% bulb -- they are the best on market now -- you have options w/ the T 5 either on top of screen or inside the tank - it is up to you- but the basking distances are different from where they are placed -- top of screen 8-10 inches basking decor directly underneath - inside the tank 12-15 inches basking decor directly underneath
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Re: T8 question

Postby Claudiusx » Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:09 pm

Get an accurate device to get your measurements and you will be able to use this to find out exactly how much is being blocked.
https://www.perforated-sheet.com/calcul ... -area.html
You don't really need to though.

Either way, if you go with the T8, you will want to mount it inside.

The t5 is no different than the t8 besides the effective distance. Using the T8 at the proper distance will accomplish just the same as using the T5 at the right distance. You use whatever works best for your setup.

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Re: T8 question

Postby kingofnobbys » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:10 am

WinFam01 wrote:
SandP wrote:Can you show us a pic of the screen? In most cases it should be fine sitting on top.

Let's see if this shows it well enough - I lifted up the access flap to get a shot straight through, and the 2nd is a shot of it from straight above. A 100 watt basking bulb would not get the top of the basking decor (any 6-7 in. away) past 95, we had to go to a 150.
[Click image to enlarge]

[Click image to enlarge]


OK , you've put up images of the perforated metal or plastic screen (lid), this will help you calculate your shade factor based on the measurements and hole layout
https://www.perforated-sheet.com/calcul ... -area.html
calc the OPEN AREA ,

% SHADE FACTOR = (100 - % OPEN AREA)

I've checked an enlarged view of the image you provided , is a 60deg hole pitch mesh , and I got a very poor open area about 18% this means that screen will block over 80% of the UV if you have ANY UV source mounted on top .
You can easily check using a see through plastic ruler ( +/- a mm ) or using a Vernier caliper to get accurate measurements ( I used a ruler to measure against my computer screen , took a few seconds )

So for instance an Arcadia t5ho 12% tube in a good quality reflector put on top will have the UVB flux dropped from 200 microW UVB / sq.cm to 40 microW UVB / sq.cm at the same distance of 30cm.
Or to get the correct level of UV (A & B) , your dragon will need to be able to get within 2 inches of the lid if you insist on putting a typical t5ho 10% to 12% UVB tube and reflector hood ONTOP OF THAT MESH.

MY ADVICE = hang the UVB tube and reflector / reflector hood UNDER IT , else your dragon might as well have zero UV and will get sick.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
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EWSs : Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
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Re: T8 question

Postby WinFam01 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:42 pm

Claudiusx wrote:
The t5 is no different than the t8 besides the effective distance. Using the T8 at the proper distance will accomplish just the same as using the T5 at the right distance. You use whatever works best for your setup.

-Brandon

I know a T8 has to be inside, but I wasn't sure that it was as good as a T5, so your explanation helps, thanks.
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Re: T8 question

Postby WinFam01 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:55 pm

kingofnobbys wrote:
OK , you've put up images of the perforated metal or plastic screen (lid), this will help you calculate your shade factor based on the measurements and hole layout
https://www.perforated-sheet.com/calcul ... -area.html
calc the OPEN AREA , % SHADE FACTOR = (100 - % OPEN AREA)

I've checked an enlarged view of the image you provided , is a 60deg hole pitch mesh , and I got a very poor open area about 18% this means that screen will block over 80% of the UV if you have ANY UV source mounted on top .
You can easily check using a see through plastic ruler ( +/- a mm ) or using a Vernier caliper to get accurate measurements ( I used a ruler to measure against my computer screen , took a few seconds )

So for instance an Arcadia t5ho 12% tube in a good quality reflector put on top will have the UVB flux dropped from 200 microW UVB / sq.cm to 40 microW UVB / sq.cm at the same distance of 30cm.
Or to get the correct level of UV (A & B) , your dragon will need to be able to get within 2 inches of the lid if you insist on putting a typical t5ho 10% to 12% UVB tube and reflector hood ONTOP OF THAT MESH.

MY ADVICE = hang the UVB tube and reflector / reflector hood UNDER IT , else your dragon might as well have zero UV and will get sick.


Thank you for the calculation! That's just what I was afraid of, that it blocked more than a regular mesh type screen.
Now that that is established...I do not insist on putting a hood on top. 😛
I am now looking at whether I can safely place a T5 inside, or whether, due to height of tank and current basking decor, it needs to be a T8.
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Re: T8 question

Postby KarrieRee » Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:31 am

T 5 distance should be 12-15 inches from decor piece inside the tank -
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Re: T8 question

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:17 am

KarrieRee wrote:T 5 distance should be 12-15 inches from decor piece inside the tank -
Karrie


Here are the UV performance curves for Arcadia T5ho tubes
Image

I suggest aim for UVB flux between 170 microW / sqcm to 190 microW / sqcm at the basking spot and 100 microW / sqcm in the warm zone.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
G.Dubia Gecko (F) hatchling : Godzilla
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Re: T8 question

Postby Claudiusx » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:10 am

From the manufacturer themselves:
https://www.arcadiareptile.com/lighting ... n-baskers/
[Click image to enlarge]

12-15 inches is the proper distance for the Arcadia 12% in a reflector hood unobstructed.

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Re: T8 question

Postby Claudiusx » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:17 am

WinFam01 wrote:Thank you for the calculation! That's just what I was afraid of, that it blocked more than a regular mesh type screen.
Now that that is established...I do not insist on putting a hood on top. 😛

Don't be so sure unless you measure it yourself.
I measured one of those types of lids a few months back using the calculator I linked you to and I came out with only 31% blockage. And this was using some decently precise calipers.

Either way, if you don't have the 12-15 inch distance in your tank for the t5, you'll want to either go with the T8 mounted inside, or you need to find someone with decent calipers so you can measure your screen, and see how much it blocks. That way you can mount the T5 ontop of the screen, and move your basking site to whatever distance it needs to be (based off of how much you calculate the screen to block.) You could buy your own decent calipers, but for a bit more you would be able to just buy a solarmeter and not worry about measuring your screen lol.

I'd be leary of any good quality calipers less than 100 bucks.

-Brandon
Follow along with all my beardies. Check out my thread here!: Claud's Crew
P.S. We have lots of pictures ;)
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Re: T8 question

Postby WinFam01 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:32 am

Claudiusx wrote:
WinFam01 wrote:Thank you for the calculation! That's just what I was afraid of, that it blocked more than a regular mesh type screen.
Now that that is established...I do not insist on putting a hood on top. 😛

Don't be so sure unless you measure it yourself.
I measured one of those types of lids a few months back using the calculator I linked you to and I came out with only 31% blockage. And this was using some decently precise calipers.

Either way, if you don't have the 12-15 inch distance in your tank for the t5, you'll want to either go with the T8 mounted inside, or you need to find someone with decent calipers so you can measure your screen, and see how much it blocks. That way you can mount the T5 ontop of the screen, and move your basking site to whatever distance it needs to be (based off of how much you calculate the screen to block.) You could buy your own decent calipers, but for a bit more you would be able to just buy a solarmeter and not worry about measuring your screen lol.

I'd be leary of any good quality calipers less than 100 bucks.

-Brandon

This might be a silly question, but do the measurements from bulb to surface top need to be straight down, or is it also accurate at a diagonal?
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Re: T8 question

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:04 pm

WinFam01 wrote:
Claudiusx wrote:
WinFam01 wrote:Thank you for the calculation! That's just what I was afraid of, that it blocked more than a regular mesh type screen.
Now that that is established...I do not insist on putting a hood on top. 😛

Don't be so sure unless you measure it yourself.
I measured one of those types of lids a few months back using the calculator I linked you to and I came out with only 31% blockage. And this was using some decently precise calipers.

Either way, if you don't have the 12-15 inch distance in your tank for the t5, you'll want to either go with the T8 mounted inside, or you need to find someone with decent calipers so you can measure your screen, and see how much it blocks. That way you can mount the T5 ontop of the screen, and move your basking site to whatever distance it needs to be (based off of how much you calculate the screen to block.) You could buy your own decent calipers, but for a bit more you would be able to just buy a solarmeter and not worry about measuring your screen lol.

I'd be leary of any good quality calipers less than 100 bucks.

-Brandon

This might be a silly question, but do the measurements from bulb to surface top need to be straight down, or is it also accurate at a diagonal?


Best to be directly overtop.

The distance is the shortest distance from the bottom if the tube to the basking spot surface .

It's an inverse square power law , ie double the distance , the intensity drops by a factor of four.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
G.Dubia Gecko (F) hatchling : Godzilla
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Re: T8 question

Postby WinFam01 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:17 pm

Please be kind, this is a work in progress.
[Click image to enlarge]

Her current bulb is *not* a 13w, it is a 26w, which is why I had been thinking it was ok. *I now know it is not*.
Measurement from inside top of screen straight down to top of "mountain" (which is her basking spot) is 9.5".
Measurement from inside top of screen straight down to top of rock structure is 12".

My conclusion, if I have come to it correctly, is that with the current set-up, a T8 (inside!) would be indicated.
BUT, because I read that T8 emits a different wavelength of light which may be seen by reptiles as a flicker that doesn't sound pleasant,
https://www.reptilecentre.com/blog/2016/09/difference-t8-t5-reptile-uvb-tubes/
I do wonder if we could have the correct distance for a T5 (inside!) if we were to make the top of the rock the basking spot instead? But then her body (& especially head), would not be 12" from the uvb, so I'm not sure?

Sorry for all the detailed questions! This is just the way my brain works at trying to make sure I understand correctly.🙈
Last edited by WinFam01 on Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: T8 question

Postby KarrieRee » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:23 pm

The 26 watt is ok-- and I say that w/ a dread---- they are equivalent to the T 8 BUT it needs to be in a reflective dome I am assuming it is -- and it needs to be 4-6 inches from basking spot--- to get any UVB --- so can you take your screen off or have it like half on - ? If you take the screen off or even open where you can set the T5 then you can use the 12-15 inches from basking decor - you can use a T 8 in the tank strap it the top of the screen and move your decor around -- its easier to move decor and get your UVB situated first --- just a suggestion
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