Beardie's health rapidly declining despite meds..help!

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Beardie's health rapidly declining despite meds..help!

Postby Raninicholle33 » Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:22 pm

Nina is approx 8 months old and female. She started having issues 4 months ago. Lethargy, loss of appetite, diarrhea. I took her to the vet and She was diagnosed with hookworm pinworm and coccidia. She was given metrodizonale,ponazuril, and pancur.
I learned how to properly sterilize with a coccidial disinfectant i purchased from a beardie supply site and did away with reptile carpet and put down paper towels.
She improved for a couple weeks and then declined back to old symptoms. I took her in again a month after the first appointment and they said her counts were down except for the pin worms I believe..they had me do another round of metrodizonale and because she has ropey saliva they suspected a uri and had me give her antibiotic shots!! She does not wheez but makes little puffs sometimes. No gaping unless under basking bulb. I dont see her breathing in a laboring manner...but she has the ropey saliva...
She has been on so much meds I think her system is worn out.... I have been giving her benebac the whole time to help her maintain good bacteria...
She still has diarrhea and is alert when I interact with her but so lethargic...color is very pale...fat pads are receding. Her urates were hard and I read here that it may be from excess calcium!! I use the rep cal with d3...I laid back on powder for a bit and her urates softened. The urates are not streaked with red anymore but very white. She has liquidy diarrhea though.
She is going to the vet tomorrow afternoon. Her appetite fluctuates. When she wont eat I make her slurries of mustard greens squash fruit and dubia roaches. She has been on syringe food that is complete nutrition from the vet before too. I give her water daily via a dropper. I also must the heck out of her veggies and hand feed them to her.
Her regular diet consists of crickets, collard greens,mustard greens,some bok choy, dubia roaches, some hornworms, some wax worms,some blueberries. By some I mean occasional.

I'm very concerned for her and I've grown to love her so much, she has the gentlest temperament and personality. I just dont want her to suffer... I have tried hard to educate myself on proper care, and have definitely not been perfect because she is my first bearded dragon.

I am reaching out to see if anyone has advice or experience!!
We will be going to the vet tomorrow but any additional input is so welcome right now.

TANK STATS
40 gal tank
Basking temp:103-107 (the bulb is 150w by exoterra)
I have it in a stand so I can adjust the height in order to control the temp.

I do not have a thermometer on the cool side. I need to purchase one!

Humidity: under 30%, 25-28 avg
UVB: reptisun 10.0 tube light
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Re: Beardie's health rapidly declining despite meds..help!

Postby Drache613 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:30 am

Hello,

I am so sorry your girl isn't doing well, that is so emotionally taxing.
I agree, that is a lot of medication for her. I'm glad to hear you have had her on some
benebac probiotics to help her out.
Did they ever do a blood test on her or not? She is young but if she is over 100 or so
grams they should be able to draw enough blood to test her levels.
Can you post a few pictures of her, along with her tank setup just so we can see how the
lighting is placed, etc.
The calcium with D3 can cause toxicity but I'm not sure that this is the issue. That's great
you decreased the D3 though to help her urates. At least they are soft now. Which brand
of vitamins are you using?
Are you using a digital probe to measure the temperatures?
By chance, did they give you the levels of parasites initially before medicating?
If she has a respiratory infection she would need a different medication for that though.
For now, I would keep her a little warmer overnight, around 75-80 or so to help boost her
immune system.
Let us know how the vet visit goes!

Tracie
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Re: Beardie's health rapidly declining despite meds..help!

Postby Raninicholle33 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:57 am

I'm having trouble uploading photos. I made a photobucket account to link the photos with and I can only access it on my mobile phone right now. Is there a simpler alternative??

Blood draw is the next step, they said if she doesnt get better they can check her blood to see what's going on. Will probably do that today.


I do not know the counts of parasites when she was tested first but I can ask today! I have another fecal sample so they can test again today.
Ceftazidime was the antibiotic the vet had me inject in 3 day intervals 7 times for the ropey saliva.. I missed one shot I thought it was in muscle but it just squirted out on her scales...vet said that was okay.. it happens..

I am using a digital probe on basking rock and digital hygrometer and thermometer on hot side.

I have a CHE but it is 100 watt andemits too much heat at night, I dont use it.

Thank you for your swift reply!
Last edited by Raninicholle33 on Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Beardie's health rapidly declining despite meds..help!

Postby Raninicholle33 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:15 am

[Click image to enlarge]

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Figured out the photo upload!
The pics were taken in morning as tank was heating up so the ambient temp is lower and humidity higher as pictured.
She loves branches, is her branch too close to her uvb?
I took some cage accessories out in the beginning of her issues to keep things as sterile as possible. And I feel she is outgrowing her basking rock and needs a new one. The blob in the corner is a clean sock filled with rice to control humidity levels.
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Re: Beardie's health rapidly declining despite meds..help!

Postby KarrieRee » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:28 am

The UVB looks like a T 8-- if it is it needs to go inside the tank approx 8-10 inches from basking decor w/ NO plastic cover over the bulb - it needs to be exposed- 90 degrees temps at nite is way too hot - you want temps 70's not below 65- how old is the UVB? If it's older than 6 months it needs to be replaced-
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Re: Beardie's health rapidly declining despite meds..help!

Postby Raninicholle33 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:51 am

KarrieRee wrote:The UVB looks like a T 8-- if it is it needs to go inside the tank approx 8-10 inches from basking decor w/ NO plastic cover over the bulb - it needs to be exposed- 90 degrees temps at nite is way too hot - you want temps 70's not below 65- how old is the UVB? If it's older than 6 months it needs to be replaced-
Karrie

It is a t8. I will need to re do the decor. The branch she loves will be way too close when put inside. The uvb was replaced 3 months ago. The plastic cover you are referring too is the casing it is in or a cover on the uvb tube itself? There is no plastic on the uvb tube itself I see.
Is there a version of a uvb tube that can sit on top of the screen? How do I fixture it inside?

Yes, 90 is too hot. I do not use the CHE at night for that reason. I used it once and saw that it was too hot in the morning. I will look for one with lower wattage since Tracie said to keep it a bit warmer at night.
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Re: Beardie's health rapidly declining despite meds..help!

Postby KarrieRee » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:18 am

The T 5 can sit on top of the tank but you will need a different fixture -- one w/ HO I would get a 24" if your going to replace it-- then it can sit approx 8-10 inches from decor piece --- you can hang w/ these inside the tank for your T 8
3 M command Velcro fasteners- picture hanging wire – long plastic zip ties-- fishing line-- shoe laces -- potted plant wire hangers-- the plastic cover is the one you dont have on from what I am gathering - its the plastic one you took off to replace the bulb -- that is the one I am talking about--
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Re: Beardie's health rapidly declining despite meds..help!

Postby Raninicholle33 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:24 am

KarrieRee wrote:The T 5 can sit on top of the tank but you will need a different fixture -- one w/ HO I would get a 24" if your going to replace it-- then it can sit approx 8-10 inches from decor piece --- you can hang w/ these inside the tank for your T 8
3 M command Velcro fasteners- picture hanging wire – long plastic zip ties-- fishing line-- shoe laces -- potted plant wire hangers-- the plastic cover is the one you dont have on from what I am gathering - its the plastic one you took off to replace the bulb -- that is the one I am talking about--
Karrie

What is HO? Yes I removed any wrapper from the bulb before screwing into the fixture. So I can hang the t8 in the fixture I have pictured inside the tank with the items listed above? Thanks for your help!
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Re: Beardie's health rapidly declining despite meds..help!

Postby KarrieRee » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:30 am

High output it will say on the box -- T 5 's are usually HO -- and yes you can hang the T 8 in the tank w/ the things I posted -- UVB's do not get that hot -- is that duct tape on the fixture? I would use your T 8 till you need to replace the bulb again in another 3 months then get a new fixture -- they look like this
https://www.pangeareptile.com/store/ima ... p9z-yd.jpg
this one will work too https://www.pangeareptile.com/store/ima ... /t5-ho.jpg
just dont use the bulb w/ this one it is not for reptile use
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Re: Beardie's health rapidly declining despite meds..help!

Postby Raninicholle33 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:38 am

KarrieRee wrote:High output it will say on the box -- T 5 's are usually HO -- and yes you can hang the T 8 in the tank w/ the things I posted -- UVB's do not get that hot -- is that duct tape on the fixture? I would use your T 8 till you need to replace the bulb again in another 3 months then get a new fixture -- they look like this
https://www.pangeareptile.com/store/ima ... p9z-yd.jpg
this one will work too https://www.pangeareptile.com/store/ima ... /t5-ho.jpg
just dont use the bulb w/ this one it is not for reptile use
Karrie

Ok great. Thank you! No it is tin foil. I read it helps reflect the uvb Ray's to penetrate more since it is on top of the screen.
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Re: Beardie's health rapidly declining despite meds..help!

Postby KarrieRee » Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:22 am

Your fixture does it not have a reflector behind the bulb? If it does you should not need the tin foil on there and it would need to be behind the bulb wrapped around it sort of
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Re: Beardie's health rapidly declining despite meds..help!

Postby AHBD » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:29 pm

She looks very good despite everything she's been through. Her weight is good, she's stocky and not thin at all. How long was her first round of meds. and what was she put on the second time, how long will she be on the shots ? And yes, 90 degrees is way too hot at night, was that throughout the tank ? When you say she's lethargic, is she actually laying flat with her head on the ground or just not very active ? Keep her hydrated, not too hot and hopefully she'll get back to normal after the meds. are done.
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Re: Beardie's health rapidly declining despite meds..help!

Postby Raninicholle33 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:10 pm

AHBD wrote:She looks very good despite everything she's been through. Her weight is good, she's stocky and not thin at all. How long was her first round of meds. and what was she put on the second time, how long will she be on the shots ? And yes, 90 degrees is way too hot at night, was that throughout the tank ? When you say she's lethargic, is she actually laying flat with her head on the ground or just not very active ? Keep her hydrated, not too hot and hopefully she'll get back to normal after the meds. are done.


She was on 3 de wormers. One that was 2 doses 48hrs apart. One that was 2 doses,2nd does after two weeks. Round two was another round of the 2 doses in two weeks(metrodizonale) and cefta antibiotic shots, 7 of them spaced 3 days apart.

My earlier post is misleading about the CHE, because I realized within the first use of it at might that it was too hot i didn't use it at night. I do not use it at night.
But i do believe my temps have been too hot on the
hot side making the gradient off so the cool side was too warm.
Vet said she looked really good as well, gained 100 grams since the visit a month ago. I forgot my fecal sample when I went to the vet! I live 45 min away..so this week i will bring in another sample to get parasite count checked again. Vet said I may be over hydrating her by misting her veggies too much and offering water from dropper..could make her stools loose. But still will do her parasite count.
She sometimes has her head down but for most part alert and lazy.

I realize I may have been overreacting because she's already been through all these meds and I was concerned!

Essentially these are things to be changed or are changed now:
I mounted the uvb inside the tank so it isn't obstructed
Lower the temp of basking spot a bit to allow a gradient.
Get her counts for parasites checked
Not over mist her veggies along with water from dropper.
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Re: Beardie's health rapidly declining despite meds..help!

Postby Raninicholle33 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:15 pm

KarrieRee wrote:Your fixture does it not have a reflector behind the bulb? If it does you should not need the tin foil on there and it would need to be behind the bulb wrapped around it sort of
Karrie

I took the tin foil away and mounted it inside the tank. I'm going to but new decor because her branch is too tall for where the uvb is now. I believe there is a reflector within.
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Re: Beardie's health rapidly declining despite meds..help!

Postby KarrieRee » Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:33 pm

There should be some shiny piece behind the bulb that would be the reflector--
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