White spot?? Amonst other problems...

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White spot?? Amonst other problems...

Postby Alanacorinne27 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:42 pm

Hello all,
This will be a pretty long post so prepare yourselves.
I really need help with my baby bearded dragon.
Here is some back story: I got her 4 weeks ago. She started eating okay, I assumed it was from stress she wasnt eating the best but now 4 weeks later, she still isnt eating well. In the past 7 days she has eaten 10 nutrigrubs TOTAL. Nothing for 2 of those days, 1 for each of 3 of those days, and 3 or 4 for another 2 days, spread out. 10 days ago I posted in the feeding portion of the forum about her. She is extremely skinny. No sunken fat pads or eyes, but her hips bones are visible. I am extremely worried about her. I also want to mention that it seems like shes been trying to shed for over 2 weeks now with no visible progress- the only reason I can tell she is "shedding" is because she has a flap of dry skin under her armpits that have not changed this whole time. She poops once a day, the poops look good, she is well hydrated. I mist her and I bathe her regularly in an attempt to help her shedding.
This is to show how skinny she is:
[Click image to enlarge]

This was her 10 days ago:
[Click image to enlarge]

This was her original enclosure:
[Click image to enlarge]

I moved her into this one:
[Click image to enlarge]

The temps in her cage are correct- between 75 and 83 degrees F on the cold side, between 90 and 95 on the warm side, basking spot ranges from 100 to 107 degrees tested with a digital thermogun that I ordered off of Amazon. She has a reptisun T5 on top of her cage (Im going to cut the mesh so that its more direct) and it is roughly 7 inches from her basking decor. I also take her outside every day for direct sunlight for 15-30 minutes (where I live its above 85 degrees F right now)
Lately moreso than ever she has been lethargic even if she eats a lot (a lot for her is 3-4 nutrigrubs size medium because shes so small). So Ive been EXTREMELY worried about that but today I found white spots on her underside! I havent seen anyone talk about this nor can I find any info about this. This is also the first time I've noticed that theres fecal remnants on her underside.
[Click image to enlarge]

[Click image to enlarge]

In the picture it kind of looks like a bump but when Im looking at her in person it doesnt. The spot is hard to the touch, It looks like its flakey but it feels hard. Theres 2 spots, one on her anus and the other on her tail, both visible in the pictures. Is this poor shedding? Is this a fungus?

As far as responses on her eating, I havent yet made a slurry for her but am going to do that tomorrow feeding her 3 times a day 0.5mL with a syringe as per another forum members instructions. I'm also going to be calling the vet but with the lock down I havent been able to work so I dont have the money to take her but I will anyway if no one is able to give me any suggestions that work immediately.
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Re: White spot?? Amonst other problems...

Postby Drache613 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:58 pm

Hello,

It is very hard to tell from the pictures....
When you bathe her, it did not come off or come loose then? It doesn't look fungal at the
moment but it could be hardened urates but not sure.
You could try getting some raw, unpasteurized honey to put on that area, or simply some
KY jelly, to see if it gets softened up any at all. I hope that it isn't a growth.
Since she isn't eating much at all, I highly recommend making some nutritional slurries to
start giving her daily so she can get some calories.
What type of supplementation do you give her?
Be sure to keep her around 75-80 in her tank overnight, too for help with her immune system.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie
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Re: White spot?? Amonst other problems...

Postby Claudiusx » Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:15 am

Hi there,

Your tank setup sounds fine.

In addition to Tracies comments, does she actually bask very much on that hammock?
Getting a reading with an IR thermometer on that hammock would be very difficult, and probably not possible very accurately. I assume that's the basking spot. You really should get a digital with probe end to measure that spot. That way you can rest the probe where your dragon would lay, and get a better temp reading.
Temperatures are so vitally important, I just want to make sure that the basking site is adequate before moving on.

I really don't have any idea of what could be on the vent though, I'm sorry.

-Brandon
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P.S. We have lots of pictures ;)
Click here if you use a Sunblaster fixture - IMPORTANT
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Re: White spot?? Amonst other problems...

Postby Alanacorinne27 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:45 pm

Drache613 wrote:When you bathe her, it did not come off or come loose then? It doesn't look fungal at the moment but it could be hardened urates but not sure.

Tracie, that was a great suggestion to watch it when i bathe her. I think you were right that it was hardened urates. I noticed when I bathed her that it did soften and it just took some rubbing (not too hard obviously) to come off.

Claudiusx wrote:Getting a reading with an IR thermometer on that hammock would be very difficult, and probably not possible very accurately. I assume that's the basking spot. You really should get a digital with probe end to measure that spot.

Brandon, thank you for suggesting the probe thermometer. I actually drape some white fabric on the hammock for a few minutes when I measure the temperature with the infrared thermogun so I get an accurate reading.

As for an update on Adara, she is still not eating well and its difficult to get her to eat slurries as well. She eats on average 1-3 nutrigrubs or calcium/multivitamin dusted discoid roaches a day, and now the slurries but not more than 0.2cc a day :( (but consider that she only weighs 4 grams right now). I have critical care coming in the mail to be delivered on Monday so hopefully she pulls through until then... She hasnt really been basking the past 2 or so days and i'm constantly checking the temperatures, theyre perfectly in range. She doesnt go all the way to the cool end, she just doesnt sit under the basking light, in an area where the temperature is around 85 degrees (using IR thermogun on wood, not ambient temperature). She is extremely lethargic as well... But again, I'm praying she pulls through until Monday when I can give her critical care on top of everything else I've been doing for her. Im also not going to be bathing her while syringe feeding her because of all the liquid in the slurry.

-Cori
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Re: White spot?? Amonst other problems...

Postby KarrieRee » Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:54 am

Your basking temp needs to be 105-110-- taken w/ a digital probe for accurate temps-- you need to keep her hydrated and if you haft to get some food into her --- shes getting too weak to eat on her own but you need those temps bumped up if they are not at the 105-110--- this would be a reason why shes not eating
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Re: White spot?? Amonst other problems...

Postby Alanacorinne27 » Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:15 pm

KarrieRee wrote:Your basking temp needs to be 105-110-- taken w/ a digital probe for accurate temps-- you need to keep her hydrated and if you haft to get some food into her --- shes getting too weak to eat on her own but you need those temps bumped up if they are not at the 105-110--- this would be a reason why shes not eating
Karrie

The area under the basking light is around 107 degrees on average. Its the area where she sits instead, not under the basking light, that is 85 degrees.
She still really is not doing well and its pretty hard to force feed her slurries. She is not active at all and i think shes on the brink of death...

-Cori
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Re: White spot?? Amonst other problems...

Postby Drache613 » Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:02 pm

Hello!

How is your girl doing now? Have you been able to get any slurry or other foods into her?
So the growth did work its way off & it was just hardened & dried urates then? That is the
best scenario possible then instead of a growth then. Maybe the critical care will help out.
Will she not lick the food off of her nose?
Are you getting him to the vet this coming week?
I'm sorry that she isn't doing well. Are you able to keep her warmer overnight right now,
around 75-80 to boost her system. I would recommend lowering her basking area so she
doesn't have to climb up onto much so she can get warmer for basking.

Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie
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Re: White spot?? Amonst other problems...

Postby Alanacorinne27 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:59 am

Drache613 wrote:Hello!

How is your girl doing now? Have you been able to get any slurry or other foods into her?
So the growth did work its way off & it was just hardened & dried urates then? That is the
best scenario possible then instead of a growth then. Maybe the critical care will help out.
Will she not lick the food off of her nose?
Are you getting him to the vet this coming week?
I'm sorry that she isn't doing well. Are you able to keep her warmer overnight right now,
around 75-80 to boost her system. I would recommend lowering her basking area so she
doesn't have to climb up onto much so she can get warmer for basking.

Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie


She does lick her nose when i put slurry or water on it but because shes so small, its very tiny licks so it doesnt get even 0.1cc in her. I have to open her mouth and put small amounts in at a time, maybe 0.025cc at a time. But she does also eat some nutrigrubs or discoid roaches on her own still- not too weak to eat but very weak overall.
The white spots did come off easily in the bath with some massaging so thats great, i could only assume you were right about the urates.
She continues to poop once a day, soft but solid and not stinky, so its normal and no signs of parasites.
The room that shes in is actually pretty warm so overnight she stays around 75 degrees, and the cool end of her tank right now after turning the lights on is 80 degrees.
I gave her a bath last night with homemade pedialyte that i found the recipe to on another website (dissolving 1/2 teaspoon of salt and a tablespoon of sugar in a quart of water) and that did wonders for her. She was so much more active than she has been after, even compared to a normal bath.
Critical care is arriving today so ill give you updates on how she does with that. Im thinking bc its a powder to dissolve, i can more easily make it more liquidy for her to lick up.
I dont think she has any problem getting to her basking area but youre right and im thinking about just sliding it over so the wood that she rests on would be the new basking area (to see if its spot preference or to get away from the basking heat)
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Re: White spot?? Amonst other problems...

Postby KarrieRee » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:54 am

She needs the warmer temps 105-110.to digest her food -- offering her a heat gradient would be good then she has the option
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Re: White spot?? Amonst other problems...

Postby Alanacorinne27 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:07 am

KarrieRee wrote:She needs the warmer temps 105-110.to digest her food -- offering her a heat gradient would be good then she has the option
Karrie


She has that. Basking temps are around 107 degrees, warm side around 90-95 degrees, cool side around 80 degrees.
The problem was that she wasnt laying in her basking spot by choice and i didnt know why
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Re: White spot?? Amonst other problems...

Postby KarrieRee » Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:42 am

Yeah I am not sure why either-- they usually like it warmer-- does she sit there at all and then move?
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Re: White spot?? Amonst other problems...

Postby Alanacorinne27 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:51 am

KarrieRee wrote:Yeah I am not sure why either-- they usually like it warmer-- does she sit there at all and then move?
Karrie


If shes having an active spurt which isnt often at all and is typically after her homemade pedialyte bath, she will bask but normally, she just hangs out next to the basking spot which isnt as warm. She doesnt go to the cool end though. If i try to move her closer to the basking spot, she sits for maybe a minute before moving.
Before she got sick, she would bask all day and then go to the cool end coincidentally around the time it was time to turn off the lights at night.
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Re: White spot?? Amonst other problems...

Postby KarrieRee » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:59 am

I am not sure why the sudden change of behavior- as long as her food is digested and she's pooping that's good
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Re: White spot?? Amonst other problems...

Postby Alanacorinne27 » Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:55 pm

Little update on Adara for today:
Yesterday the critical care came in and i was maybe able to give her 0.1-0.2 ccs. Today shes been doing much better, but still really bad but anything she does i consider an accomplishment at this point. I did the math and according to the critical care directions, they advise to give 1tbsp per kg of body weight- converted into mL/cc, she should have 0.2cc a day. This is if i want to maintain her weight though and i obviously dont. I want her to get better and start growing so im going to give her a MINIMUM of 0.2cc and thats only if she makes it really difficult to force feed her and not for any consecutive days. Today, for example, she ate 0.4cc, after taking into consideration liquid she didnt lick up or that i wiped off because it got too messy.
Since shes a baby, when she fights through this, do you guys think this will affect her growth curve and her final size? She hasnt grown in the past 4 weeks so im wondering if she’ll ever be able to make that up.
Today shes been more active, but that means shes been venturing to the cool end of her enclosure and im not sure thats good for her right now.. the cool end is around 80 degrees, should i let her do that? Or should i keep an eye on her to make sure she stays warm so that theres no problems digesting? This morning when she ventured to the cool end, i let her be until 30 minutes later i realized she was still there so i moved her to the warm end. I also think this might be her gaining her personality back though. Before she got sick, she loved sitting in the water in her tank, which is on the cool end. Now, when she goes to her cool end, she sits next to the empty water bowl (ive left it empty since shes getting baths and now slurries/critical care, i dont want her to be overhydrated)
If anyone can give me advice, that would be greatly appreciated. Ill keep you updated on her progress because i know she’ll make it. Her name, Adara, means fire in Hebrew and that name was given to her for a reason.

-Coris
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Re: White spot?? Amonst other problems...

Postby KarrieRee » Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:22 pm

I am not sure about amount of food but I think I would feed her the small amounts 3 times per day-- and have her under basking area for at least 4 hrs per day-- the more nutrition she gets the stronger she will get- and yes she should catch up with her growth I would think-- unless Tracie or ahbd say something else about amount or times per day try that
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