New owner of 3 month old Male bearded dragon

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New owner of 3 month old Male bearded dragon

Postby beardedbeardyowner » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:06 am

Good evening all,

Per the title I am a new co-raiser of a rather adorable beardie that has come into our household very recently (4 days ago)

As with a lot of things in life all the research in the world doesnt actually help when there is so much conflicting information so potentially this forum might be able to provide assistance.

https://imgur.com/a/5CVbFrG

He is roughly 14-16cm long,
Born on 27-12-19 and we received him on Sunday 22nd after a 2 day transit time. (its now Thursday the 26th)
Temps under basking lampr reads between 40°- 44° and cold side of the cage sits at 26°-28. Cermaic heat lamp is setup to be on anytime it records a reading of sub 24° inside his hide causing a stable tank temperate of 22°+ at all times
Flooring used is a mixture of sand/dirt/woodchips after consultation with a breeder known as The Bio Dude, cage is 150 Litres.
UVB light and basking lamp are on from 9am -10 pm for 13 hours exposure.

We had been advised he had started shedding just before he left (the original dragon we were going to get was not able to be transported to us)
He has been raised by a breeder on a diet of standrd wild greens (dandilions and vegetables with feeding of live insects consisting of crickets and mealworms.
Fully vetted before transport and clean bill of health etc.

Since we have had him we have not managed to get him to eat anything really. With him showing 0 interest in food aside from a couple of mouthfuls of chopped dandelions and 1 live meal worm on Monday, then 1 live mealworm on Tuesday, he has eaten nothing else since.

Since Wednesday morning he has been acting very skittish. A gentle bath was given to him Wednesday evening to try and relive some of the itch and a few bits of dry scales came off with no real assistance.

He alternates between looking normal and chiiling on the side of the steps shown in the picture,
or having black strips and acting very skittish.

Since Wednesday night we have also provided Flukers juevenile pallets in a feeding platter in an area of his hide by the water dish (only 9 or so and they are tiny pallets) which he has also not eaten at all.

This eveing my wife managed to get him to drink some water by using a syringe and putting droplets on his snout, about 30 mintues after that he then threw up what ammounted to 2 meal worms and some dandelions. None of it looked digested to any degree. He has pooped numerous times since we received him so I believe that means I can rule out imapction.

Since throwing up I went to the supermarket and bought some baby food packets one of apples and the other a pumpkin, carrot, potato & beef mix (the only meal/vegie option without any onions or mushrooms) based of other posts regarding what to do when they throw up.
He has shown no interest in eating that or having more water but he is alternating between moving around his cage, occasionaly trying to scratch the glass or climb around the staircase and then just chilling in a very flattened position on the basking spot.

hopefully the above provide all the information needed and My real question is what the hell do I do to get the little dude to eat?


Lastly somewhat relevant is I live in New Zealand so regionally specific treatments or foods etc. are not going to be very useful to me.
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Re: New owner of 3 month old Male bearded dragon

Postby KarrieRee » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:35 am

First hes gonna go thru relocation stress --- so hes eating is going to be slow but he should not quit eating all together -- the throwing up part is a mystery to me -- dandelions are a good green to feed I am going to post the nutrition website for you http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html that will give you more variety of what to feed --- mealworms are too harsh on the stomach so I am guessing that could be why he threw up please NO more mealworms---- you need a staple feeder like crickets or dubia roaches - you may haft to go onto Amazon and order them on line as I am in the states and have no idea where you would get them from over there --- good worms to feed are small supers limited amounts horn worms butter worms and BSFL -- some of those worms could be called something else over there --- he needs fresh salads every day and to lure him to that salad bowl you need to use the worms I have listed --- add them to his salad bowl and glass bowl so they cant get out -- only use 1-3 of each worm --- let him eat from that bowl for like an hr or so then take a little salad out add your staple feeder - roaches work the best and are a better feeder --- they are easier to keep in a 10 gallon aquarium as well feed them dubia food or food you feed the dragon and carrots for hydration --- your basking temps seem to be good so I am wondering why the food was not digested - I would raise them up for 105-110 F taken w/ a digtial probe NO stick ons they are inaccurate --- or a infrared heat gun works good too I forgot to ask what UVB are you using ? NO COILS --- they are not good brand and bulb and where in the tank is the UVB on top of screen or inside the tank?
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Re: New owner of 3 month old Male bearded dragon

Postby beardedbeardyowner » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:22 pm

Morning Karrie,

Thanks for that :) NZ is in lockdown (great timing) so its relatively impossible to order anything in from Amazon/overseas for at least 4 weeks. The mealworms were used to feed him as that's what the breeder has already been feeding him with no issues encountered.

We have bought Flukers dried crickets medley and will potentially try giving him some of those.
We have no live crickets with us. I can buy some live BFSL our local pet store has those thankfully but neither of the other 2. I don't have a digital probe so potentially the temps are inaccurate and his basking area may not be hot enough then i'll look into that.

UVB is mounted inside the tank not on or covered by a mesh screen and is a UVB 150 10.0 T8 from Exo-Terra Reptile.
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Re: New owner of 3 month old Male bearded dragon

Postby KarrieRee » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:42 pm

Ok good UVB and it needs to be 8-10 inches from basking spot--- you need a digital probe to get the best accurate temps --- I would get the BSFL get large as they are small and he will eat alot - I do not recommend dried food - it dehydrates them to bad and they are not very nutritious as well -- feed him salads --- and if you can get any type of worms like supers or butter worms horn worms or even silk that would be good -- let me know what you can find ----- those can be added in front of him to the salad bowl to get him to eat his salads -- here is a website for that http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html
Karrie
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Re: New owner of 3 month old Male bearded dragon

Postby beardedbeardyowner » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:19 pm

Morning all/Karrie

He has still shown barely any interest in food and the closest I've gotten him to eating is 1-2 ml of apple baby food every couple of hours on Saturday/Sunday. Placing tiny amount on his snout to get him to lick it off. He shows absolutely 0 interest in live food or salads. He also ate 1 meal-worm on Saturday that had escaped at some point during an earlier attempt at feeding. He pooped on Sunday too with a completely healthy looking poo. I also increased the temperature of his basking area slightly going from a 64w to a 75w bulb now. No way to purchase a digital Thermometer right now due to lockdown but it is a few degrees hotter.

Is there something wrong in how I feed him, should I be placing the bugs in his enclosure then shutting the door and leaving them alone? Just about all of the feeding videos I have seen involved people using either tweezers or holding bugs in their hands for him to eat or bugs in a dish. None of the three listed these options have him interested though. I am trying to source other live insects for him to try but nothing is really moving in New Zealand right now and the local pet store where we were about to buy live insects from has shut down.

Another question and hopefully there is an answer for is he is constantly trying to fight his reflection and this could be the primary issue because his terrarium actually has convex glass on the sides which makes it incredible easy for him to catch his reflection in them. We are trying to remedy this as soon as possible but could this be a reason for him having darker scales in his cage and then looking "happier" / lighter when we take him out to try and feed.

Lastly should I be taking him out of his hide if he is hiding in it to feed him? How long can I leave a baby dragon in their hide before they will encounter temperature issues as I've read they wont necessarily seek out a basking spot if their to cold?

I'm sure I'm doing things wrong and there is an incredible amount of conflicting information on the internet about baby bearded dragons making this a rather stressful time for our household to make sure the little dude is ok.

To put my mind at ease is anyone able to weigh in on a similar experience with having a new baby bearded dragon?
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Re: New owner of 3 month old Male bearded dragon

Postby KarrieRee » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:32 pm

you need that probe to get a actual basking temp -- do you have a infrared heat gun? And hes still in that 10 gallon tank? How do you have a T 8 inside a 10 gallon tank -- I would get it up on the top approx 8-10 inches from his basking decor w/ NO screen --- that is too strong for a 10 gallon tank --- the BSFL are a good feeder -- you will need ALOT OF THEM --- do not dust them and put them on top of his salad - fresh greens every day I gave you a post for nutrition --- kale is good so dont mind the website it says different use it if you can get it -- if you have a stick on its going to give you ambient temps so if it says 100F degrees on the stick on you can bet its gonna be hotter on the spot where hes sitting -- reflection --- please cover the sides or the back w/ newspaper magazines construction paper tape it on the outside away from the lights the heat of course that will help w/ the reflection -- you need to google search live feeders for bearded dragons in New Zealand --- I can not help you there since I am in the states -- I have one website for people in Canada that I can help w/ live feeders --- they cannot get dubias there --- that is what I would recommend for your baby is the dubia roaches --
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Re: New owner of 3 month old Male bearded dragon

Postby beardedbeardyowner » Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:18 pm

Thanks Karrie,

I just remeasured the difference as previously it was 13/14 inches above the basking spot its now been dropped down to 9 inches from basking spot.

Re the basking spot being to hot I can work on dropping it down more so that it wont be as hot then.

A generalized question is how long can I leave him in his hide before I should try and encourage him to come out?
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Re: New owner of 3 month old Male bearded dragon

Postby KarrieRee » Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:46 pm

Is he eating at all ? The basking temps and UVB if correct he will eat--- he should not be hiding in his hide --- have you figured out what the basking temp is? Please post a pic of that tank ---
https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ click on XIMG at the top of the message box then click on the pic it should post
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Re: New owner of 3 month old Male bearded dragon

Postby beardedbeardyowner » Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:41 pm

Not apart from the apple sauce as previously mentioned.

Image

Image

Second picture shows UVB has been dropped down it was inset with the top of the cage.

It looks like when setting it up I had the basking distance and UVB distance swapped around when I put them in >.<
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Re: New owner of 3 month old Male bearded dragon

Postby KarrieRee » Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:02 am

The basking distance is going to depend on the temp--- so if its too hot you need to move it up -- the UVB is depending on the bulb whether its the T 8 or T 5 if its on top of screen and what the screen is wide or fine and / or inside the tank --- so the UVB is at 9 inches now from his basking spot? Please quit feeding him applesauce and get some greens turnip / mustard / kale or collards mix w/ some squash like yellow zucchini and water and feed him that - mix a little calcium in there as well - if you can protein too like crickets or dubias --- if you use your blender you wont be able to use it after the bugs are put in there --- but he needs good food and applesauce has too much sugar and is not really good -- unsweetened applesauce is used for getting them to poop --- he needs to be hydrated so keep him hydrated w/ the mixture of the food and by itself little at a time so he does not aspirate -- please post a pic of him --
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Re: New owner of 3 month old Male bearded dragon

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:52 am

beardedbeardyowner wrote:Good evening all,

Per the title I am a new co-raiser of a rather adorable beardie that has come into our household very recently (4 days ago)

As with a lot of things in life all the research in the world doesnt actually help when there is so much conflicting information so potentially this forum might be able to provide assistance.

https://imgur.com/a/5CVbFrG

He is roughly 14-16cm long,
Born on 27-12-19 and we received him on Sunday 22nd after a 2 day transit time. (its now Thursday the 26th)
Temps under basking lampr reads between 40°- 44°
<<< way too hot , MAX 40 degC.
and cold side of the cage sits at 26°-28. Cermaic heat lamp is setup to be on anytime it records a reading of sub 24° inside his hide causing a stable tank temperate of 22°+ at all times
Flooring used is a mixture of sand/dirt/woodchips after consultation with a breeder known as The Bio Dude, cage is 150 Litres. <<<< ditch the sand/dirt/woodchips , extremely dangerous risk of ingesting and will very likely cause potentially life threatening impaction or even GIT blockage.
Replace with kitchen grade paper towels or loose laid ceramic tiles.


UVB light and basking lamp are on from 9am -10 pm for 13 hours exposure. <<< too short , bump up by about 2 hours.
Make sure it's at least a 26W 10% UVB globe or tube at a distance to give about 180 microW UVB / sq.cm.

We had been advised he had started shedding just before he left (the original dragon we were going to get was not able to be transported to us)
He has been raised by a breeder on a diet of standrd wild greens (dandilions and vegetables with feeding of live insects consisting of crickets and mealworms.
Fully vetted before transport and clean bill of health etc.

Since we have had him we have not managed to get him to eat anything really. With him showing 0 interest in food aside from a couple of mouthfuls of chopped dandelions and 1 live meal worm on Monday, then 1 live mealworm on Tuesday, he has eaten nothing else since.
<<< mealworms are a bad live food choice
get some
1" silkworms
large black soldier fly lavae
1/4 to 1/2 size crickets (or roaches no longer than gap between his eyes)
2 meals per day of live insects. Roaches/crickets dusted with calcium dust & gutloaded with fresh high calcium greens.


Since Wednesday morning he has been acting very skittish. A gentle bath was given to him Wednesday evening to try and relive some of the itch and a few bits of dry scales came off with no real assistance.

He alternates between looking normal and chiiling on the side of the steps shown in the picture,
or having black strips and acting very skittish.

Since Wednesday night we have also provided Flukers juevenile pallets in a feeding platter in an area of his hide by the water dish (only 9 or so and they are tiny pallets) which he has also not eaten at all.
<<<< wasted money , but if DRY and hard, OK as food for the crickets / roaches (maybe).

This eveing my wife managed to get him to drink some water by using a syringe and putting droplets on his snout, about 30 mintues after that he then threw up what ammounted to 2 meal worms and some dandelions. None of it looked digested to any degree. He has pooped numerous times since we received him so I believe that means I can rule out imapction.

Since throwing up I went to the supermarket and bought some baby food packets one of apples and the other a pumpkin, carrot, potato & beef mix (the only meal/vegie option without any onions or mushrooms) based of other posts regarding what to do when they throw up.
He has shown no interest in eating that or having more water but he is alternating between moving around his cage, occasionaly trying to scratch the glass or climb around the staircase and then just chilling in a very flattened position on the basking spot.

hopefully the above provide all the information needed and My real question is what the hell do I do to get the little dude to eat?


Lastly somewhat relevant is I live in New Zealand so regionally specific treatments or foods etc. are not going to be very useful to me.


I live in Australia , I've come across skink and dragon keepers who live in NZ, and am aware live insects breed commercially are hard to come by in NZ.
You could try these two commercial insect suppliers based in Eastern Australia
http://www.biosupplies.net.au based in Sydney
02 9790 0438
http://www.livefoods.com.au based on Sunshine Coast, Queensland
sales@livefoods.com.au

http://biosuppliers.nz/?p=1
have live blowflies, cockroaches, crickets, earthworms, fruitflies, houseflies, locusts, Mealworms, microworms, soldierflies, waxmoth, whiteworms
email is bio@pl.net , phone is 022-1354740.

Most ended up using Repashi GrubPie
https://www.repashy.co.nz/products/grub-pie-reptile
as their hatchling/ juvi dragons protein staple
https://www.repashy.co.nz/pages/which-r ... my-reptile

Silkworms : try this lady = Skate on 372 5077 and leave a message ( she is farming silkworms for the silk and you might be able to buy a few hundred silkworm egg from her which will get you started
http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-n ... are-hungry
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
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