Vet visit, with conflicting advice

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Vet visit, with conflicting advice

Postby McBeck » Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:50 pm

[Click image to enlarge]
Have had my Dragon for 2 weeks tomorrow. 1st Vet visit today
Her set up 40 brdr
150w basking bulb timed to come on at 10:00 am off at 7pm
100w basking bulb timed to come on at 5:30 off at 11:00am
24" Reptisun 10.0 bulb in the enclosure, within 6"-8" of a log
Small shallow water dish available cool side
Temps peak at 108 degrees at 11am cools to 103ish degrees by noon
Night temps (total darkness) 72 degrees
She has increased from 8" to 9" and 25g to 33 grams (before dinner) tonight in 13 days
Multivitamin and calcium every other day
Dubiah roaches, crickets,superworms and occasional waxworm
Collard and Mustard greens are a staple. Cilantro, carrots and blueberries thrown in occasionally
Very tame, voracious bug slayer, not impressed with veggies so far...
Came through her 1st full head, body shed looking awesome!
Sorry, just want to be thorough with info

Overall my Vet agreed with my set up and care of my Beardie and fell in line with everything I've read here and elsewhere. Where he veered sharply away from everything I've read are as follows:

1: multivitamin and calcium every day.
2: Raise my humidity to 70%
3: Use a heat emitter at night and keep night time temps no lower than 82 degrees.

He was a very nice gentleman and seemed to be knowledgable about Beardies, but these point concern me.
Is anyone keeping their Dragons within these parameters? I would very much like to know.
I have bought a che tonight and am testing it now to see what temps it raises my spot to.
Pics of new skin! With different lighting trying to show true colors. [Click image to enlarge]
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Re: Vet visit, with conflicting advice

Postby AHBD » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:00 pm

Hi there, your husbandry is good and sorry to say the vet does not know much about beardies. Don't take him back there, find a new vet but don't be in a hurry to get in for a visit, just find a vet with good reviews.
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Re: Vet visit, with conflicting advice

Postby daveferns1 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:20 pm

No he doesn't really sound to know what hes talking about, but others can post their opinion too.

Regarding the 3 points:

1. I generally like to do 1x calcium dusting a day until they are 14+ inches, then can drop to x2 a week if you are providing appropriate greens and other calcium sources. I use 1x multivitamin dusting a week throughout lifetime, again providing appropriate variety of nutrition to go alongside that.

2. Humidity between 20-40%

3. You will only need a CHE at night if your temps in the tank are 65F or lower.
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Re: Vet visit, with conflicting advice

Postby KarrieRee » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:21 pm

Find a vet www.arav.org
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Re: Vet visit, with conflicting advice

Postby McBeck » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:42 pm

KarrieRee wrote:Find a vet http://www.arav.org
Karrie


This is how I found this Vet. Lol
Unfortunately I live in the middle of nowhere. This was the closest Vet to me, about an hour away. The next closest vet is an hour and a half away. I guess if I do my job, and create the right environment, I won't need one. I'll just keep reading on here and ask questions...
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Re: Vet visit, with conflicting advice

Postby KarrieRee » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:50 pm

Oh dear! That's not good-- you might want to check out the vet that's an hour and a half and get reviews on that one! Just to know on hand in case you have emergency
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Re: Vet visit, with conflicting advice

Postby MrSpectrum » Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:17 pm

McBeck wrote:
KarrieRee wrote:Find a vet http://www.arav.org
Karrie


This is how I found this Vet. Lol
Unfortunately I live in the middle of nowhere. This was the closest Vet to me, about an hour away. The next closest vet is an hour and a half away. I guess if I do my job, and create the right environment, I won't need one. I'll just keep reading on here and ask questions...

Never say never. IMO it's best to have one lined up just in case, even if it's a bit of a haul. :wink:

Regarding the discrepancies:
1: multivitamin and calcium every day.
2: Raise my humidity to 70%
3: Use a heat emitter at night and keep night time temps no lower than 82 degrees.

Opinions are like heinies; everybody's got one (and sometimes more than one. :shock: )
This can--and does--include veterinarians, and they can get confused/make mistakes like any of us.
It's possible he sees more birds, ferrets, & other types of exotics than reptiles, let alone BDs.
In the end (no pun intended), you'll have to use your own best judgment & common sense.

1. Care sheets and opinions & practices here (this forum) vary on this. With care sheets, check what ages their recommendations are for. I feel more comfortable with a consensus of opinions, so I tend to research a lot of sources I trust/respect, and go with the most prevalent answers--or average them using common sense. YMMV. Many sources do caution about dusting too much w/ either (vitamins in particular).

2. Common sense tells me to look to their natural habitat. BDs have quite a range, and temps & humidity can likewise vary. Personally, I like to use Alice Springs as a reference point because it's very close to the exact geographical center of the country/continent and BD range. There are many excellent sites that break down climate statistics by region, month, time of day, and other factors. Here's just one that reports the average humidity (by month) at Alice Springs ranges from 19%-35%. This isn't too far off from a search consensus of 30%-40% during the day, and up to 55% at night (which makes sense--as temperatures rise, RH falls, and verse-vica). The Australian Outback is an arid region, and humidity in arid regions isn't typically 70%.

3. Again, looking to climate data at/near Alice Springs, average nighttime low temps range from 4.0C to 21.4C (~40°F to ~70°F). Even in the warmest months, night temps don't average in the 80sF. A search consensus suggests a nighttime temp no lower than 65°F, and a CHE is only recommended if temps fall below that. Most room temperatures (68° to 72°F) should be fine without a CHE.

The only place I question your temps is:
Temps peak at 108 degrees at 11am cools to 103ish degrees by noon

Is that air temp or surface temp? :? As I understand things, the 95° to 110°F (or so) range applies to basking surface temperatures. Enclosure ambient (air) temperatures should be in the neighborhood range of 80° (cool side) to 90°F (warm/hot side). I'll leave it to readers to reconcile these figures with climate data or consensus searches. YMMV.
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Re: Vet visit, with conflicting advice

Postby McBeck » Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:22 am

The only place I question your temps is:
Temps peak at 108 degrees at 11am cools to 103ish degrees by noon

Is that air temp or surface temp? :? As I understand things, the 95° to 110°F (or so) range applies to basking surface temperatures. Enclosure ambient (air) temperatures should be in the neighborhood range of 80° (cool side) to 90°F (warm/hot side). I'll leave it to readers to reconcile these figures with climate data or consensus searches. YMMV.[/quote]

Actually I have Googled Australian humidity maps to see actually what they get there. This is how important it is to me, to keep her healthy. Plus numerous articles :study: and info on here, is what has helped me take a sort of consensus, to my setup.
I guess, I didn't realize :roll: the surface temp relation. Ambient temps are about 88 degrees, cool side is 82. Hot side measured with a probe, very close to the basking rock, (like an inch away) is 108. I plan to get a heat gun today to be as accurate as possible, here on out.
There are numerous shaded hides and varying elevations throughout the tank that she should be able to self regulate.
I will take others advice, and look up this other Dr. I didn't mean to imply I wouldn't, I was just stating that it's a "Haul" lol.
I did try the CHE last night over her basking log. Kept temps in that area at 80 degrees. Previous overnite temps drop to about 72. Know what she did? She left the log area, got as far away as she could into a shaded rock area for the night. 1st time she has done that in the 2 weeks that I have owned her. CHE will not be used tonight...
Me thinks, she hath told me, without spoken word, what she prefers! Typical female, I was supposed to know what she wants, without her saying anything.... :D LOL!
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Re: Vet visit, with conflicting advice

Postby MrSpectrum » Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:37 am

McBeck wrote:Actually I have Googled Australian humidity maps to see actually what they get there. This is how important it is to me, to keep her healthy. Plus numerous articles :study: and info on here, is what has helped me take a sort of consensus, to my setup.
I guess, I didn't realize :roll: the surface temp relation. Ambient temps are about 88 degrees, cool side is 82. Hot side measured with a probe, very close to the basking rock, (like an inch away) is 108. I plan to get a heat gun today to be as accurate as possible, here on out.

Great. :D Mine prefers (from that unspoken word :wink: ) a range of basking temps. I keep my basking light at an angle to stretch out the area and provide him with choices/zones. When he was your dragon's age, he liked around 105°F. As he grew, that temp dropped, and now @ 5 mos. he prefers the mid 90s, and only seeks 100°F right after eating. Individual dragons may/will vary on this.

I did try the CHE last night over her basking log. Kept temps in that area at 80 degrees. Previous overnite temps drop to about 72. Know what she did? She left the log area, got as far away as she could into a shaded rock area for the night. 1st time she has done that in the 2 weeks that I have owned her. CHE will not be used tonight...

Cooler nighttime temperatures (the temperature drop/gradient) have been shown not only to be preferred by dragons of distinction, :roll: but more beneficial to their health. Makes sense considering their natural habitat.

Me thinks, she hath told me, without spoken word, what she prefers! Typical female, I was supposed to know what she wants, without her saying anything.... :D LOL!

Your words--not mine, friend! 48 years w/ the same woman and counting. :)
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Re: Vet visit, with conflicting advice

Postby McBeck » Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:26 am

[quote="48 years w/ the same woman and counting. :)[/quote]
March 2nd will "only" make 29 for me.
I only spout nonsense like that when I know full well, there's little to no chance of her reading, said nonsense...
Cheers!
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