What's wrong with Superworms?

Discuss topics of food for your beardies here.

Re: What's wrong with Superworms?

Postby Wickedpogana » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:56 pm

superworms nor mealworms are bad superworms do have more protien but a cricket has more chitin then a mealworm they chew them to shreds unlike crickets where they can swallow some chunks if you have the correct husbandry you should have 0 problems with the common feeders its the housbandry that causes problems not the worms
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Re: What's wrong with Superworms?

Postby DragonPete » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:06 pm

Yeah Petey has no problem chomping on his Supers. Just have to make him take his time. 😊 Have no idea how many he'd actually eat at a sitting given the chance. Prob enough to make himself sick. LOL! 😆 But he IS grown, easier for him than the babies I'm sure.
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Re: What's wrong with Superworms?

Postby DragonPete » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:09 pm

MrSpectrum wrote:
DragonPete wrote:If I don't feed him 1 at a time, he'll inhale them....

That's how Z is with his num-nums (dubias). The first time I ordered ½" I was concerned. The distance between his eyes was just about ½". When they got here, I think it must have been the end of their stock (and end of the year) because while mostly ½", there were an awful lot of larger & smaller sizes as well. Also a few hundred more than I ordered. One day curiosity got the better of me, and I fed him one of the largest (probably 1"). His eyes got real big (like a puppy that gets a huge rawhide) but he had no trouble munching that sucker down. Same with giant mealies & supers (which is why I didn't hesitate with the large supers order this time). Since then, I've kept with ½" dubias--mostly because the price goes up significantly with larger sizes. Where I used to count out 5, then 10, then 15... Now I just pull out a tube (I use old paper towel tubes instead of egg crate cuz I got a zillion of em) rap on the side, and 15-20 fall out into the bowl. He scarfs down 2, 3, even 4 at a time! :lol:

Like you say, he inhales 'em! :D (Or as I say, he's a roach hoover. :P )

Hahaha! He's a num num Hoover! 😆
Checked out Horns at PS, not impressed. Supers looked great! Bought some more.
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Re: What's wrong with Superworms?

Postby DragonPete » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:14 pm

Wickedpogana wrote:superworms nor mealworms are bad superworms do have more protien but a cricket has more chitin then a mealworm they chew them to shreds unlike crickets where they can swallow some chunks if you have the correct husbandry you should have 0 problems with the common feeders its the housbandry that causes problems not the worms

Didn't know crickets have more chitin. Thought that was an issue for babies. I see many that feed crickets but refuse supers or meal worms because of chitin content. Something to consider I guess. No prob here with Petey, at 2.5 yo he's plenty old enough to munch. 😆
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Re: What's wrong with Superworms?

Postby Wickedpogana » Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:25 pm

DragonPete wrote:
Wickedpogana wrote:superworms nor mealworms are bad superworms do have more protien but a cricket has more chitin then a mealworm they chew them to shreds unlike crickets where they can swallow some chunks if you have the correct husbandry you should have 0 problems with the common feeders its the housbandry that causes problems not the worms

Didn't know crickets have more chitin. Thought that was an issue for babies. I see many that feed crickets but refuse supers or meal worms because of chitin content. Something to consider I guess. No prob here with Petey, at 2.5 yo he's plenty old enough to munch. 😆
-Dee

yeah almost all feeders have chitin complete myth that they cant digest it even dubi roaches have chitin not as much of course but it also is most area to surface people argue with mealworms i can assure you a dragon fed on mealworms is completely fine and if not maybe theirs something else going on and if your still worried about chitin maybe look in to switching to black solider fly larve
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Re: What's wrong with Superworms?

Postby DragonPete » Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:37 pm

Wickedpogana wrote:
DragonPete wrote:
Wickedpogana wrote:superworms nor mealworms are bad superworms do have more protien but a cricket has more chitin then a mealworm they chew them to shreds unlike crickets where they can swallow some chunks if you have the correct husbandry you should have 0 problems with the common feeders its the housbandry that causes problems not the worms

Didn't know crickets have more chitin. Thought that was an issue for babies. I see many that feed crickets but refuse supers or meal worms because of chitin content. Something to consider I guess. No prob here with Petey, at 2.5 yo he's plenty old enough to munch. 😆
-Dee

yeah almost all feeders have chitin complete myth that they cant digest it even dubi roaches have chitin not as much of course but it also is most area to surface people argue with mealworms i can assure you a dragon fed on mealworms is completely fine and if not maybe theirs something else going on and if your still worried about chitin maybe look in to switching to black solider fly larve

Oh! I'm not worried. 😆 I was questioning the reasons people were opposed to Supers. No problems on this end. I thought it would be a good conversation and it has. 👍
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Re: What's wrong with Superworms?

Postby Wickedpogana » Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:43 pm

DragonPete wrote:
Wickedpogana wrote:
DragonPete wrote:
Wickedpogana wrote:superworms nor mealworms are bad superworms do have more protien but a cricket has more chitin then a mealworm they chew them to shreds unlike crickets where they can swallow some chunks if you have the correct husbandry you should have 0 problems with the common feeders its the housbandry that causes problems not the worms

Didn't know crickets have more chitin. Thought that was an issue for babies. I see many that feed crickets but refuse supers or meal worms because of chitin content. Something to consider I guess. No prob here with Petey, at 2.5 yo he's plenty old enough to munch. 😆
-Dee

yeah almost all feeders have chitin complete myth that they cant digest it even dubi roaches have chitin not as much of course but it also is most area to surface people argue with mealworms i can assure you a dragon fed on mealworms is completely fine and if not maybe theirs something else going on and if your still worried about chitin maybe look in to switching to black solider fly larve

Oh! I'm not worried. 😆 I was questioning the reasons people were opposed to Supers. No problems on this end. I thought it would be a good conversation and it has. 👍
-Dee

awesome and hornworms also are great i dont believe they have chitin and if so not much at all a quick google search can find out lol goodluck otherwise hopefully more awesome discussions
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Re: What's wrong with Superworms?

Postby DragonPete » Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:58 pm

Wickedpogana wrote:
DragonPete wrote:
Wickedpogana wrote:
DragonPete wrote:
Wickedpogana wrote:superworms nor mealworms are bad superworms do have more protien but a cricket has more chitin then a mealworm they chew them to shreds unlike crickets where they can swallow some chunks if you have the correct husbandry you should have 0 problems with the common feeders its the housbandry that causes problems not the worms

Didn't know crickets have more chitin. Thought that was an issue for babies. I see many that feed crickets but refuse supers or meal worms because of chitin content. Something to consider I guess. No prob here with Petey, at 2.5 yo he's plenty old enough to munch. 😆
-Dee

yeah almost all feeders have chitin complete myth that they cant digest it even dubi roaches have chitin not as much of course but it also is most area to surface people argue with mealworms i can assure you a dragon fed on mealworms is completely fine and if not maybe theirs something else going on and if your still worried about chitin maybe look in to switching to black solider fly larve

Oh! I'm not worried. 😆 I was questioning the reasons people were opposed to Supers. No problems on this end. I thought it would be a good conversation and it has. 👍
-Dee

awesome and hornworms also are great i dont believe they have chitin and if so not much at all a quick google search can find out lol goodluck otherwise hopefully more awesome discussions

I've become a fixture around here in the last couple months. 😊 Looking forward to indepth discussions.
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Re: What's wrong with Superworms?

Postby Gormagon » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:43 pm

The only ones that have problems with superworms here at the Chateau de Gormagon are Charlie and Angel. That's only because there are never enough given out at snack time, lol!!!
The wonderful world of bearded dragons is a magical land of mystery, enchantment, cuddles, love and, worry! A mysterious realm where things always seem to change in an instant and, the moment you think you have it all figured out, the rules change! You think you own your dragon, guess again. You are now a slave!!!
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Re: What's wrong with Superworms?

Postby DragonPete » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:45 pm

Gormagon wrote:The only ones that have problems with superworms here at the Chateau de Gormagon are Charlie and Angel. That's only because there are never enough passed out at snack time, lol!!!

LOL! I bet! I think they look at worms the same way I do walnut brownies. 😉 Yum!
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Re: What's wrong with Superworms?

Postby Gormagon » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:55 pm

DragonPete wrote:
Gormagon wrote:The only ones that have problems with superworms here at the Chateau de Gormagon are Charlie and Angel. That's only because there are never enough passed out at snack time, lol!!!

LOL! I bet! I think they look at worms the same way I do walnut brownies. 😉 Yum!
-Dee

Yes, they are very demanding, lol!!!😂😂😂😂😂
The wonderful world of bearded dragons is a magical land of mystery, enchantment, cuddles, love and, worry! A mysterious realm where things always seem to change in an instant and, the moment you think you have it all figured out, the rules change! You think you own your dragon, guess again. You are now a slave!!!
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Re: What's wrong with Superworms?

Postby DorgEndo » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:48 am

Jumping in quick. Oversimplification of chitin is that chitin and fiber and exoskeleton are the same thing. Not really, there are more details of course. It looked like there was some misinformation about chitin in a few posts.

Some random examples comparing chitin. Younger dubia roaches have less chitin/fiber/exoskeleton than older dubia roaches. A freshly molted mealworm has less chitin/fiber/exoskeleton than a normal mealworm. Caterpillar insects like hornworms, silk worms, and butterworms have very little chitin/fiber/exoskeleton because of how soft they are. A gut loaded insect has less chitin/fiber/exoskeleton than one not gut loaded, a very well fed insect you can see between the plates on the exoskeleton to the soft body underneath - crickets will get this way because they will eat non-stop and their exoskeleton allows that - roaches too to some extent.

To a degree you can see or touch an insect and feel how hard the body is to assess if has more or less chitin compared to what you normally give your dragon. I think like any foods offering some variety is a safe place to land. Aiming for a middle chitin road BSFL, roaches, crickets, and locusts. Then the caterpillars with low chitin and supers/mealworms with high chitin more on the occasional/treat end. That also lines up with other nutritional qualities too amazingly.

There are types of insects that are not recommended for feeding at all. The beetle of the mealworm or superworm. From what I know about the exoskeleton of beetles the fibers become intertwined with protein. The bond is so strong neither the protein or fiber can be digested and used by a bearded dragon. So that's why no one feeds mature beetles. The fiber and protein have some bonding in the larvae stages, but it is not even close compared to after metamorphosis for those bugs that metamorphosize.
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Re: What's wrong with Superworms?

Postby DragonPete » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:19 am

DorgEndo wrote:Jumping in quick. Oversimplification of chitin is that chitin and fiber and exoskeleton are the same thing. Not really, there are more details of course. It looked like there was some misinformation about chitin in a few posts.

Some random examples comparing chitin. Younger dubia roaches have less chitin/fiber/exoskeleton than older dubia roaches. A freshly molted mealworm has less chitin/fiber/exoskeleton than a normal mealworm. Caterpillar insects like hornworms, silk worms, and butterworms have very little chitin/fiber/exoskeleton because of how soft they are. A gut loaded insect has less chitin/fiber/exoskeleton than one not gut loaded, a very well fed insect you can see between the plates on the exoskeleton to the soft body underneath - crickets will get this way because they will eat non-stop and their exoskeleton allows that - roaches too to some extent.

To a degree you can see or touch an insect and feel how hard the body is to assess if has more or less chitin compared to what you normally give your dragon. I think like any foods offering some variety is a safe place to land. Aiming for a middle chitin road BSFL, roaches, crickets, and locusts. Then the caterpillars with low chitin and supers/mealworms with high chitin more on the occasional/treat end. That also lines up with other nutritional qualities too amazingly.

There are types of insects that are not recommended for feeding at all. The beetle of the mealworm or superworm. From what I know about the exoskeleton of beetles the fibers become intertwined with protein. The bond is so strong neither the protein or fiber can be digested and used by a bearded dragon. So that's why no one feeds mature beetles. The fiber and protein have some bonding in the larvae stages, but it is not even close compared to after metamorphosis for those bugs that metamorphosize.

Thank you! I love learning stuff!! This is what a discussion should be. 👍 Plus I'm one of those agrivating people who want to know the WHY'S of everything. 😁
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Re: What's wrong with Superworms?

Postby Wickedpogana » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:01 am

DorgEndo wrote:Jumping in quick. Oversimplification of chitin is that chitin and fiber and exoskeleton are the same thing. Not really, there are more details of course. It looked like there was some misinformation about chitin in a few posts.

Some random examples comparing chitin. Younger dubia roaches have less chitin/fiber/exoskeleton than older dubia roaches. A freshly molted mealworm has less chitin/fiber/exoskeleton than a normal mealworm. Caterpillar insects like hornworms, silk worms, and butterworms have very little chitin/fiber/exoskeleton because of how soft they are. A gut loaded insect has less chitin/fiber/exoskeleton than one not gut loaded, a very well fed insect you can see between the plates on the exoskeleton to the soft body underneath - crickets will get this way because they will eat non-stop and their exoskeleton allows that - roaches too to some extent.

To a degree you can see or touch an insect and feel how hard the body is to assess if has more or less chitin compared to what you normally give your dragon. I think like any foods offering some variety is a safe place to land. Aiming for a middle chitin road BSFL, roaches, crickets, and locusts. Then the caterpillars with low chitin and supers/mealworms with high chitin more on the occasional/treat end. That also lines up with other nutritional qualities too amazingly.

There are types of insects that are not recommended for feeding at all. The beetle of the mealworm or superworm. From what I know about the exoskeleton of beetles the fibers become intertwined with protein. The bond is so strong neither the protein or fiber can be digested and used by a bearded dragon. So that's why no one feeds mature beetles. The fiber and protein have some bonding in the larvae stages, but it is not even close compared to after metamorphosis for those bugs that metamorphosize.

Darkling beetles are perfectly fine for them to eat besides the fact they have a defensive odor when threatened
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Re: What's wrong with Superworms?

Postby DragonPete » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:36 am

Nothing wrong with a difference of opinion. Makes for good debate and allows those interested in the subject to decide what works for them and their Beardies. Personally I believe there are few 'absolutes', with exception of things like never feed lightening bugs, etc. Glad so many have weighed in on this. 😊
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