Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby Lmod738 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:48 am

Thank you AHBD! I'll pass this along. I keep my roaches primarily on sweet potato as food for the short time I have them, but honestly who knows what they're getting before that.
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby claudiusx » Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:19 am

High diatary UA levels definitely contribute to blood concentrations. And dubias are extremely high in UA. We were discussing this in another thread recently, I will link it to you. Plus, Dubias, hold on to their extra uric acid unlike other insects. So, there really isn't a good way to "purge" the stored UA in them out. It's part of their biology and evolution to store UA as they can convert it to nitrogen protein when needed.
This is a link to my post in the thread, but feel free to read the whole thread if you like:
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=252163&start=15#p1911177

Annecodately, you stopped feeding dubias, and UA dropped. I suppose if you really wanted to test it you could start feeding them again, and see what happens. But personally, I wouldn't chance it unless you are pretty set on feeding dubias still.

Anyways, I am very happy the blood tests came back better. I'm not 100% sure the leg issue will be permanent but time will tell. There is always hope.

-Brandon
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby Lmod738 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:10 am

Thanks Brandon. I almost wish we'd checked separately w/o meds and w/o dubias to see if that was the direct cause. Now he's on the allopurinol AND I had stopped dubias which dropped his level back to normal. I'd be curious to know if just dietary changes would have dropped it to normal and if so, would it have been that fast. I hate to medicate ( myself or pets) if it's not necessary. Perhaps it was necessary because his level was so high then, but is it necessary long term? Or do dietary changes alone correct the problem.
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby claudiusx » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:23 am

I agree, I tend to avoid meds if I can, but sometimes they are needed. It's hard to say in this case. It's kind of an unknown, we are still learning things about their health day by day. It would have been nice for only 1 variable to have been changed, that way you could have seen what worked. But, you could always go back to feeding dubia if blood work is going to be done again soon and see what happens. It would be a good test at least and it shouldn't cause any harm, but it's completely your choice and would be extremely irresponsible for me to try to persuade you one way or another.

Realistically, he should be able to flush his UA out himself through his urates as long as he is getting proper hydration, and the dietary UA isn't at a level higher than his body could naturally handle.

Lmod738 wrote:Or do dietary changes alone correct the problem.

That's the question. I would believe that in a young dragon who still has decently functioning kidneys, that the dragon would be able to remedy itself once the source of the UA was reduced. In older dragons who have had a life long battle with high UA and kidney issues, its likely that enough damage had been done to the organs that medication would be necessary, and the body wouldn't be able to reverse it.

In your case, I think you got lucky in getting bloodwork done and happened to catch it very early on. I have a feeling many young dragons are in your same situation as far as the UA levels. It's not symptomatic until enough damage has been done. And by that time, it's likely too late, and enough kidney damage has occured that the kidney won't/can't recover.

-Brandon
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P.S. We have lots of pictures ;)
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby Drache613 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:35 am

Hello,

That is promising his uric acid levels are going down. I am not sure that the body would flush
out so much excessive uric acid without the inhibitor use medication (allopurinol) since high
levels damage kidneys so quickly.
Also, most commercialized food is made of genetically modified feeds too which cause a lot
of issues with organs, also. I think that is growing problem that hasn't been addressed.

Tracie
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