Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby Lmod738 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:48 am

Thank you AHBD! I'll pass this along. I keep my roaches primarily on sweet potato as food for the short time I have them, but honestly who knows what they're getting before that.
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby claudiusx » Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:19 am

High diatary UA levels definitely contribute to blood concentrations. And dubias are extremely high in UA. We were discussing this in another thread recently, I will link it to you. Plus, Dubias, hold on to their extra uric acid unlike other insects. So, there really isn't a good way to "purge" the stored UA in them out. It's part of their biology and evolution to store UA as they can convert it to nitrogen protein when needed.
This is a link to my post in the thread, but feel free to read the whole thread if you like:
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=252163&start=15#p1911177

Annecodately, you stopped feeding dubias, and UA dropped. I suppose if you really wanted to test it you could start feeding them again, and see what happens. But personally, I wouldn't chance it unless you are pretty set on feeding dubias still.

Anyways, I am very happy the blood tests came back better. I'm not 100% sure the leg issue will be permanent but time will tell. There is always hope.

-Brandon
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby Lmod738 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:10 am

Thanks Brandon. I almost wish we'd checked separately w/o meds and w/o dubias to see if that was the direct cause. Now he's on the allopurinol AND I had stopped dubias which dropped his level back to normal. I'd be curious to know if just dietary changes would have dropped it to normal and if so, would it have been that fast. I hate to medicate ( myself or pets) if it's not necessary. Perhaps it was necessary because his level was so high then, but is it necessary long term? Or do dietary changes alone correct the problem.
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby claudiusx » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:23 am

I agree, I tend to avoid meds if I can, but sometimes they are needed. It's hard to say in this case. It's kind of an unknown, we are still learning things about their health day by day. It would have been nice for only 1 variable to have been changed, that way you could have seen what worked. But, you could always go back to feeding dubia if blood work is going to be done again soon and see what happens. It would be a good test at least and it shouldn't cause any harm, but it's completely your choice and would be extremely irresponsible for me to try to persuade you one way or another.

Realistically, he should be able to flush his UA out himself through his urates as long as he is getting proper hydration, and the dietary UA isn't at a level higher than his body could naturally handle.

Lmod738 wrote:Or do dietary changes alone correct the problem.

That's the question. I would believe that in a young dragon who still has decently functioning kidneys, that the dragon would be able to remedy itself once the source of the UA was reduced. In older dragons who have had a life long battle with high UA and kidney issues, its likely that enough damage had been done to the organs that medication would be necessary, and the body wouldn't be able to reverse it.

In your case, I think you got lucky in getting bloodwork done and happened to catch it very early on. I have a feeling many young dragons are in your same situation as far as the UA levels. It's not symptomatic until enough damage has been done. And by that time, it's likely too late, and enough kidney damage has occured that the kidney won't/can't recover.

-Brandon
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby Drache613 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:35 am

Hello,

That is promising his uric acid levels are going down. I am not sure that the body would flush
out so much excessive uric acid without the inhibitor use medication (allopurinol) since high
levels damage kidneys so quickly.
Also, most commercialized food is made of genetically modified feeds too which cause a lot
of issues with organs, also. I think that is growing problem that hasn't been addressed.

Tracie
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby claudiusx » Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:30 pm

Hi there,

How are things going? Hope everything is going well and progress is still being made.

:)

-Brandon
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby Drache613 » Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:47 pm

Hello,

I was also wondering how your dragons was doing. I hope that he's getting better & is showing
some progress too!

Tracie
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby Lmod738 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:36 pm

Hi Brandon and Tracie, Happy New Year!

My guy is doing good kidney wise. We retested before the holidays and his values were even better. I saw another vet in the practice this time and he questions whether the initial number was somehow spiked by something, that maybe it wasn't a chronic issue after all. We stopped meds and will retest in February to see how he's doing.

He still has wonky legs but I just moved him into a larger enclosure so fingers crossed that he moves around more and builds some leg muscles. This other vet and I looked very closely at the xrays and he is certain this is not mbd related. He didn't see any skeletal abnormalities to suggest he ever had it, so he's also thinking it is some sort of birth defect or genetic abnormality as well. We are all concerned as to how he will do as he gets bigger, as it seems he has more difficulty getting around the bigger he gets. As long as he seems to have decent quality of life, I'll just keep giving him the best care I can.
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby Drache613 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:34 am

Hello,

I am glad to hear that his values have improved even more now, that is terrific!
It is always possible that his initial blood test results were affected by something, maybe just
his intake prior to the blood draw, it's hard to determine. Though, since his numbers have
gone down so well hopefully it isn't a health issue at all.
All you can is continue to keep his lighting up to date, & keep his supplementation on par too.
I think you are doing great, just give him lots of love & attention too as you already are! :D
Keep us posted on him!

Tracie
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby AHBD » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:12 pm

I'm also very glad to hear that he's doing so much better. :) I didn't think he had a death sentence and I doubted the prognosis at the start. Hopefully he continues to improve !
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby Drache613 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:32 am

Hello,

Feel free to post new pictures of him when you can so we can all see him! :D

Tracie
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