what surface temp do i go off of??

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what surface temp do i go off of??

Postby goldenboy2421 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:26 pm

Hi everyone, im currently trying to get my temps right before i get my beardie next week and i guess im getting a little confused on what temperature i should be measuring. So the way i have my basking spot setup is a piece of branch leaning against a dark, almost black, half log hide. So my beardie can technically either bask on the leaning branch or right on top of the half log. Where im getting confused is what surface am i measuring for my temps? the half log ,because its so dark and because of the mateiral (like a hard ceramic/stone), is roughly 20 F hotter than the highest point of the branch. Do i go off the half log? or the branch? this brings me to a more general question, is the bearded dragon getting his warmth from the light that hits him from the top or from the surface? if the more important light is the one that he gets from up top, if i didnt have the half log, i would have to up my temps a lot more to try to get my branch to reach 105-110 F. Does this makes sense? shouldn't the light from above stay the same regardless of the material he is basking on?
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Re: what surface temp do i go off of??

Postby claudiusx » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:36 pm

Hi there,

What type of thermometer are you using?

20f hotter is quite a bit hotter. You generally dont want any surface in your tank to be over 110.
The surface temp you want is the spot the dragon is most likely to bask on. You might need to end up moving that black piece to make sure temps wont get too hot.

Their bodies will heat from overhead heat and radiated heat from the surface they are resting on. So that why we recommend getting a basking surface temp :)

-Brandon
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P.S. We have lots of pictures ;)
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Re: what surface temp do i go off of??

Postby CooperDragon » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:44 pm

They absorb light and heat from overhead. They can lighten or darken to absorb or reflect more so it’s more a rough guess than an exact thing. If they are on a warm surface they will absorb a bit from that too until it equalizes. I wold base the basking surface temps off the darker hotter area. Then see how he reacts. If he goes to the hottest part and spends a lot of time there you can try bumping up the temps a bit. If he avoids it then try lowering the temps a bit. You can tweak as you go to fit his preferences.
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Re: what surface temp do i go off of??

Postby goldenboy2421 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:02 pm

Im using infared thermometer to get my temps. i think the log i got might be for an aquarium because its that type of material. So i guess what im trying to get at is, different basking materials heatup and retain heat at different levels right, so that means they need different amounts of light levels to get to the same temp. For example: (im just going to use some random numbers to make my point)

Terrarium 1 - i have a piece of black flat stone for my basking spot. Lets say to get it to 100F i dim my basking light so that i only need to use 40% of basking light power to get the basking surface to 100f since the material takes in heat faster and retains it longer.

Terrarium 2 - i have a piece of branch only for my basking spot. To get the branch to 100F i need more light so that im using 80% basking light power because it takes more light to heat up and keep the branch at 100F.

After looking at these two setups, terrarium 2 will need more basking light power and therefore will have higher ambient temps. If i have a basking material like terrarium 1 that heats up faster , i wont need as much light to heat it up and so i guess the ambient temp would be less. Both have a 100F basking surface temp, but the heat that the bearded dragon gets from up top will be different in Terrarium 1 than in Terrarium 2. is there a preferred setup? maybe im overthinking this
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Re: what surface temp do i go off of??

Postby claudiusx » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:11 pm

To be brief and not overly complicated, Ir thermometers read different surfaces differently. They are calibrated to specific surfaces and if used on a surface that falls outside of that calibration, the readings can be quite far off. If you want to get more into it, look up emissitivity.
For that reason I recommend having a digital with probe end thermometer. That would at least confirm whether your ir gun was reading the surface properly.

Your example does make sense, but I do think you're overthinking it a bit. And I think your thermometer might be throwing you off a bit and making things more complicated than they need to be. Luckily the probe ends are typically less than 12 bucks at most pet stores. It's an easy investment.

That's what I would do at this point, measure with the probe ends and then we can go from there.

-Brandon
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P.S. We have lots of pictures ;)
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Re: what surface temp do i go off of??

Postby kingofnobbys » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:57 pm

claudiusx wrote:To be brief and not overly complicated, Ir thermometers read different surfaces differently. They are calibrated to specific surfaces and if used on a surface that falls outside of that calibration, the readings can be quite far off. If you want to get more into it, look up emissitivity.
For that reason I recommend having a digital with probe end thermometer. That would at least confirm whether your ir gun was reading the surface properly.

Your example does make sense, but I do think you're overthinking it a bit. And I think your thermometer might be throwing you off a bit and making things more complicated than they need to be. Luckily the probe ends are typically less than 12 bucks at most pet stores. It's an easy investment.
<<< less than $4 on Ebay !!! for very accurate digital thermometer with a probe on a cable about 1m long.

That's what I would do at this point, measure with the probe ends and then we can go from there.

-Brandon
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : new rescues Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, juvenile Cheakie (M) 21Oct19
Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
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Re: what surface temp do i go off of??

Postby kingofnobbys » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:17 pm

goldenboy2421 wrote:Im using infared thermometer to get my temps. i think the log i got might be for an aquarium because its that type of material. So i guess what im trying to get at is, different basking materials heatup and retain heat at different levels right, so that means they need different amounts of light levels to get to the same temp. For example: (im just going to use some random numbers to make my point)

Terrarium 1 - i have a piece of black flat stone for my basking spot. Lets say to get it to 100F i dim my basking light so that i only need to use 40% of basking light power to get the basking surface to 100f since the material takes in heat faster and retains it longer.

Do you know the type of rock ?
is the surface smooth reflective or rough non-reflective ?
photo


Terrarium 2 - i have a piece of branch only for my basking spot. To get the branch to 100F i need more light so that im using 80% basking light power because it takes more light to heat up and keep the branch at 100F.

Do you know the type of tree the branch came off ?
is it covered in bark ?
rough surface ?
smooth surface ?
colour ?
photo

After looking at these two setups, terrarium 2 will need more basking light power and therefore will have higher ambient temps. If i have a basking material like terrarium 1 that heats up faster , i wont need as much light to heat it up and so i guess the ambient temp would be less. Both have a 100F basking surface temp, but the heat that the bearded dragon gets from up top will be different in Terrarium 1 than in Terrarium 2. is there a preferred setup? maybe im overthinking this


Why your noncontact / laser thermometer is likely not giving the correct surface temperature
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=241233

and how to compensate for the error
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=249355&p=1890490#p1890490


emissivities viewtopic.php?f=34&t=239064&p=1833542#p1833542
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : new rescues Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, juvenile Cheakie (M) 21Oct19
Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
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