Tylosin Vs. F10sc For RI *(Surpise Eggs, possible surgery)*

[hmwyer]

Quick report back! No eggs. Ultrasound still shows fluid. But the eggs have moved downward and look so much better than last time thanks to the calcium!
Mentioned oxytocin as a precursor to surgery he agreed we could try it and talked about what happens if it doesn't work. He asked if I needed more calcium or baytril I said yes to the calcium and he left saying "okay, I'll be back with the calcium and oxytocin!" Swear I thought he misspoke! Nope!
He comes back with a needle of oxytocin and I'm like wait what? How will we know if it's going to work of if eggs could burst or any of the other things? He said only with an ultrasound. I panicked and was like should I wait here a bit then and we check again? I'm not a vet and clearly had no idea how this was going to work, and he looked confused and slightly amused, so I was like um nothing nvm.....and as he is shooting her with it, he then says that to really try the oxytocin she needs like 3 big shots and to be monitored at the office overnight. And then it clicked! He was only giving her a super teeny tiny dose to just get her basically in the mood to lay. Like a warm bath helps them poo sort of thing. So I was phew cool.
I asked about anesthesia and he didn't hesitate to answer and how he answered I knew he had done surgeries on bearded dragons before because he said smaller and younger dragons can do just fine with only propofol, he doesn't like to use ketamine as it takes sometimes 24hrs or more for them to come around from it. But for her she would get propofol and some gas using a mask and her current chances are now 50/50, maybe more so if she would need it in 10 days time (next recheck) as her RI would be cleared by then.
He said he thought giving her 20 days to lay them with the extra calcium now in her diet is sufficient enough time considering she had them when I brought her in, and he wouldn't want to wait any longer.
He said to call and let him know if she starts laying and needs more help he would give me small shots of oxytocin to give her myself then we would check the ultrasound for the all clear.
Also, RI is clearing up well, sores in the mouth are almost gone, tail still has bone showing a little, but healing up nonetheless, and she has gained weight and strength back too!
We are home and she has made her way in the past 20mins, after a short bask, to the sand that I re wet and left a pre made hole for her. She has her front end leaning into the hole, so fingers crossed she passes them by November 8th!
Oh, and here's today's ultrasound pictures!

[Click image to enlarge]

[KarrieRee]

Glad to hear good news -- I am so glad you found a vet that seems to know what hes doing-- good luck w/ her laying ---
Karrie

[AHBD]

Hope to hear some good news. If she's still active, the R.I is gone [ or mostly ] then she should be able to lay her eggs with a little extra stimulus .

[hmwyer]

Thanks guys! Yes, he is a very good vet, which is near impossible here! Like they're so good, I'm not their furthest traveler I found out! One guy came in, got his appointment dates mixed up, drove 3hours (twice my drive) one way and they worked him in anyways.
Nothing yet, but it's barely been 8hrs since the shot, so I've got about 64 or so hours to go!
I plan to try the full blown Oxytocin route first, before surgery. I asked if something would rupture if she would be able to go in straight away to surgery if it would hurt her survival chances, he said no it doesn't really affect the body in an extreme way that it would need to wear off or anything, so I'm exhausting all options 100%. Be back in 11days, hopefully less though, with any updates!

[Drache613]

Hello,

That is very promising news! Since her eggs have dropped, her body has started to finish
shelling them with the help of the extra calcium. She should be able to lay then with the
calcium boosts & small amount of the oxytocin hormone. I am glad the eggs have dropped
then, before he gave any oxytocin.
At least her respiratory issues are diminishing & she is gaining weight now also. I'm sure she
is starting to feel better now & stronger, too. I hope that she lays them. So she is liking her sand
box you prepared for her then? Maybe she will just get them all laid without surgery.
I agree, the propofol is easier on their system & wears off a little faster.
They often do dig burrows, testing out the substrate, depth, etc then go back to it later. Just keep
the sand wet enough for her to be able to burrow but not so wet that it doesn't hold up to her in
it.
Is she done with the baytril now? Until she is done laying, you can continue giving a little bit
more calcium powder, on top of the .5ml liquid calcium from the vet to help out her system.
Keep us posted on her.

Tracie

[hmwyer]

Okay, so quick update. No eggs but LOTS of digging! I thought we were gonna see eggs on Halloween, as she was straining so much that her whole back end was off the ground, but sadly it was just a rough poop. I gave her a bath and she drank and drank and drank! She seems to only prefer to dig when the sand has dried out before I can re wet it. When it's wet she doesn't full on dig dig with her feet. Just run around and squiggle. I re wet it today and pre dug a hole again, so we'll see! 3 more days until the next appointment! Also, I couldn't feel any eggs before, but now she is distended in her stomach and I swear I feel eggs! Unless it poop, it could be I suppose, but the lumps are in weird places, so I feel like it's eggs. Still giving baytril and calcium, just to be on the safe side so she can be a strong as possible in case of surgery. Hoping the other vet will have a different outlook! Fingers crossed! Will update after next appointment or if she begins to lay! Thanks guys! ^_^

[Drache613]

Hello,

Well, they can get pretty picky about laying & the medium for egg laying. That is ok if it is a
bit drier, whatever she likes is fine. If the tummy lumps are strange & you can feel them they
are likely the eggs.
Hopefully she will just lay them & wont have to get surgery. Let us know how she is doing!
I am glad she is at least digging. LOL

Tracie

[hmwyer]

Went to the vet today. Saw the new vet. She basically echoed the other vet saying she didn't like the fluid and that the eggs looked to be forming more and there seems to be more follicles and that she might be growing more....She also said to give it yet another week and then I should give up on her laying and consider surgery. But that her chances were "guarded to grave" as a lot can happen with bearded dragons on a major surgery like that. But she gave another oxytocin small shot and she came home, made yet another BIG poop, and is now just digging like crazy and losing her mind. Obviously NOT doing the surgery is going to mean certain eventual death, so of course I will give up by next Friday and schedule the inevitable surgery. They said to keep giving calcium as I have been, so you know.....we'll see.

[Drache613]

Hello,

Wow, poor girl!
So maybe the shot will work now since she is digging a lot! I hope so, but, if for some reason
she just isn't able to lay there really wont be much of a choice. I sure hope that she is strong
enough to get through the surgery.
Is she acting normal & doesn't have a black beard? How is her weight?

Bless her. We will all be thinking about her & hope that she is able to lay. Keep us posted on
her.

Tracie

[hmwyer]

Thank you. And normally no she hasn't been black bearding, but after the visit, as soon as the got into her enclosure again, she went wild, black beard, running digging, such a big stool ai thought she was going to prolapse! I kid you not. Then ran around a few more hrs and tired herself out and her beard went to normal again and she passed out.
Weight is still down from even the last visit. Down to 409. I also have only been feeding the slurry every other day though, so that may be part if it. With her issues passing stool since the eggs and being sick I didn't want to completely impact her and it's probably good I didn't because that was kind of a scary sight to see her pass that big of a stool. I left her alone yesterday as she wasn't having any of it after the vets. But today I'm back to feeding and more more more calcium!

[Drache613]

Hello,

How is your girl doing today, any eggs yet?
I'm sure she is worn out with all of her extra activity. Is she still digging a lot?
I hope she doesn't continue to lose weight though & that she doesn't prolapse or anything
serious like that.
Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

[AHBD]

Wow, I know this is all nerve-racking to you right now. It sounds like she rally feels the urge to lay right after the Oxutocin. Are the eggs already that far down her oviduct ? It would still be good to feed her every day if she'll eat, the slurry won't cause impaction. It's actually helping to keep things moving and keeping her from losing too much weight.. Beardies will usually refuse food right before they are going to lay.

[Drache613]

Hello,

Any updates for us on your girl? I was thinking about her today, hoping that she has made
some progress. I am really hoping she decides to lay some eggs, so she can avoid a
surgery! Keep us posted on her!

Tracie

[hmwyer]

Hey! Sorry for the late update! Sadly, the eggs still haven't passed and she's been lethargic since Wednesday, so I unfortunately have scheduled her for surgery. It's tomorrow at noon, and I'm so nervous. I feel like I might be sending her to her death.....but if I don't do it, then I most certainly will be. It's just awful. I'm just hoping she pulls through okay! I've been spending every second with her and holding her and crying over her, whispering "I'm sorry. Please be strong and make through this...." They'll be keeping her overnight too for observation, so that's gonna be a long night. Ugh.....😣
I just hope she makes it. 🖤

[AHBD]

Man that's a tough call to make and I'm so sorry you have to go through this, no doubt with a big knot in your stomach. As long as the dragon is not too ill they can make it through. Hope for the best !!