Help! Young beardy diagnosed with Mbd is worse again

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Help! Young beardy diagnosed with Mbd is worse again

Postby SquirkyTurtle » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:26 pm

Heya,

We adopted a little juvenile beardy about 3 weeks ago. He was fine when we got him and he's had a healthy appetite (eating between 10-20 medium dubias a day). We have been struggling to get him to touch his veg but it got better the longer we had him. Last Saturday, all over sudden we noticed him having lameness in his front legt. He kept it of the ground and we saw it jittering quite a bit. We were concerned but he was shedding so we thought it might be that, as his eating and pooping and general behaviour was alright even if maybe a little less at that point. The leg got a lot worse and by Monday evening he wasn't moving his back legs either. We freaked ourselves out about MBD but our tank seemed to have all the important bits (uv tube, basking area, etc) and as it was all new we assumed there couldn't be any issues with the uv light. We have also been dusting his dubias.

We booked an emergency vet appointment for Tuesday and he stayed over night. The vet did an xray and she said there was a mild case of MBD (she said it only affected the legs, the rest seemed fine) and he also had an injury to one of his legs (she couldnt say from when exactly). We showed the vet our setup and she said this could be caused by the uv light being too high upfor his basking area (we got a 4.5ft tank, light is at the top and basking spot is like 30% up in the tank) and even tho he did tend to sit on his root right under his light, this was probably the issue. We then went and got a new basking uv light and took him home with calcium and pain killers. He was really active the evening we got him home and ate an usual amount of dubias. His front leg was a lot better also. From the next day on it started degrading again (both food eaten and movement) and he's down to not eating today (3rd evening home) and he's mostly just sitting in place not moving and looking more ill again. We don't understand what is happening, he should definitely get his uv now as he's by his basking light all day long. I know this is not an instant cure but how could he have been so much more active the night be brought him home and now he's back to seeming more ill. We have a follow up appointment next Thursday but I thought I would post this here to see if anyone has any ideas? I am really worried, we have had him for so short and I've really tried to do all the research.

Some more info:
-he used to poop once or twice a day but its a bit more irregular right now (approx every 2nd day for the last 5ish days but he's also eating a lot less) but his poops look good, not wet and all digested
-the painkillers we got knock him out quite a bit, we give them in the evening and after he's pretty dazed and out of it
-we had a nice temperature established (30-cold,40-hot) but since we switched to the uvb basking bulb, we had some struggles getting that back. Our temperature gun got something around 30 on the cool side and like 38 on the hot side, right under his basking bulb it gets between 40 and 45. We bought a more low wattage bulb but we are still not quite there yet, especially since we gotta heat the tank with it as well
- we got a bioactive viv with quite a lot of stuff inside that we can't take out (rock wall and cave) but we baby proofed everything with towels at the moment because the vet suggested giving him more even areas for recovering. This obviously pushes everything up so we think the higher temperature probably has to do with that.
- tube uvb is a T5 and basking is Arcadia D3 UV 100 Watts

Please if anyone has any ideas what I can do to improve things please let me know. This is making me really concerned, we only just got him and I dont want to be the cause if him being ill.

I tried to describe everything but if there is any questions, please ask! I will appreciate all kinds of insights.

Cheers
Last edited by SquirkyTurtle on Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:46 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Young beardy diagnosed with MBD

Postby SquirkyTurtle » Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:40 pm

https://imgur.com/cjl0oLK
https://imgur.com/WkxRprd
https://imgur.com/b4fVlWX

Here is some pictures of his viv pre health proofing and a picture of him from saturday with the inital issue leg on his right side. (We also got rid of the slate at the top of the hide)
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Re: Help! Young beardy diagnosed with Mbd is worse again

Postby skyfishcafe » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:32 pm

Hi there,

I'm sorry you and your little one are going through this. We've been working through a very similar situation (see this thread), and in fact today was exactly one month after the initial diagnosis and beginning of treatment. Every case is different, but perhaps reading our experience will be helpful or reassuring in some way.

I feel like having a young and recently adopted dragon with MBD presents unique challenges because MBD is so often seen in cases of neglect or substandard husbandry. It seems that your family, like ours, provided the very best care we could in alignment with sound husbandry guidelines, yet our little wards are suffering from something that happened to them before they even entered into our care.

Realistically, it might get worse before it gets better (or perhaps he's already on the upswing!). Just bear in mind that this wasn't your fault. All you can do is continue to offer excellent care and give the little one his best possible chance of recovery.

You are not alone!

With kind regards,
Aaron
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Re: Help! Young beardy diagnosed with Mbd is worse again

Postby SquirkyTurtle » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:33 am

Hey Aaron!

Thank you so much for your reply! I read your thread and this sounds scaringly so much like our beardy! Down to a few details a lot of stuff matches up, including the swelling and the way his, arms and legs look. I am very happy your boy is getting better tho and that last post made me smile. All I wanna see is our little one use his legs again. I knew this wasn't an instant cure but reading about the long uphil battle we are going to be facing at least gives me an idea what to expect.

It's very depressing but the vet agreed that this is very likely something he carried over from where we got him from as we have only had him for 3 weeks. Seeing him go from an active happy boy to being ill and lethargic in a day or two was really hard to watch tho and its impossible to not blame yourself for it. I'll try my very best to give him the best care possible and I hope he improves his situation.

Thank you for sharing and thank you for your kind words!
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Re: Help! Young beardy diagnosed with Mbd is worse again

Postby claudiusx » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:48 pm

Moved by Moderator from Health to Beardie ER at request of OP
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Re: Help! Young beardy diagnosed with Mbd is worse again

Postby Drache613 » Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:33 am

Hello,

It is hard to tell in the picture, but is the T5 mounted underneath of the screen or on top
of the screen?
It is a great looking tank, nice & bright. What type of calcium supplementation are you
using right now, did the vet send you home with liquid calcium?
Did the vet do any blood work or just the x-rays? I know those alone are expensive!
If he was diagnosed with metabolic bone disease, it does take some time for the calcium
levels in the blood to level out & uptake into the bones again.
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie
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Re: Help! Young beardy diagnosed with Mbd is worse again

Postby SquirkyTurtle » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:02 am

Heya!

The vet said they attempted blood work but as he's still small they struggled getting enough blood from him so they didn't in the end. They sent us home with liquid calcium and painkillers.

Our dusting powder is just pure calcium but I got one with D3 coming on Tuesday. I didn't realise ours was missing D3.

Since it was Saturday and I was home all day I properly got to keep am eye on him. He moved from his hot to his cold side and so on but not as much as I he used to and most of his legs are still useless. He has one good leg that does most of the work. He did seem to perk up a bit though and held his head up more then I have seen the last week. He barely took any food again, only 3 medium dubias but he passed an alright looking poop.

I know I have to be patient and I'm trying to make things as comfortable as I can.

Oh also the T5 is mounted to the inside ceiling of the tank closeish to the front. We did get a basking uv light as we thought they might be too far. I measured it and at the very very furthest spot in the tank, he's 45 centimeters away from the light. We also got a reflector on the tube.
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Re: Help! Young beardy diagnosed with Mbd is worse again

Postby SquirkyTurtle » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:58 pm

A little update:

Hes been a lot better regarding his legs, the meds and extra light seem to be helping. Hes still not using it like he used to but he can walk for a few steps at a time and earlier we saw him kinda stand (he was leaning on something but there was defo wait on the legs and hos body was off the floor).

We noticed an issue with his bad arm tho, the wrist seems a bit twisted/ swollen at one side, but hes not sensitive to the touch and he uses it as much as can be expected. We are hoping this is just the swelling going down in uneven amounts.

He was fighting me like crazy taking his meds today, he wiggles out of my hold with all four legs, which is also an improvement.

The biggest issue now is that he doesn't eat properly. I cant get him to take more then 1 or 2 dubias a day with maybe one exception since I posted originally. I tried different live food but hes not interested. He might give it a lick and watches it but he refuses to eat. I am up for any tips and tricks if someone has them.

Tomorrow is our follow up vet appointment so we will also bring this up then.
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Re: Help! Young beardy diagnosed with Mbd is worse again

Postby claudiusx » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:21 am

Glad there has been some improvement.
Looking forward to hearing what the vet says today.

-Brandon
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Re: Help! Young beardy diagnosed with Mbd is worse again

Postby SquirkyTurtle » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:54 pm

Heya!

So the vet said that the symptoms of the MDB are defo on the way up and she said that we were doing everything right and that his legs are a lot stronger then last week already.

She was concearned about him not eating and put him on a lower dose of painkillers.

There was an issue with his wrist being swollen which was even worse this morning. She said she suspects he must have somehow torn something or something similar and that she suspected an infection due to colouration and swelling. So now he is also on antibiotics.

We have another appointment next week to see if he has improved his appetite and to check the wrist. I got him to eat a blueberry today and she gave him some mushed stuff through a seringe at the appointment. I will try again tomorrow.

Thanks for everyone who has been reading and commenting, I appreciate it.
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Re: Help! Young beardy diagnosed with Mbd is worse again

Postby Drache613 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:58 pm

Hello,

That is great news he is starting to show some improvement now! :D
You are using liquid calcium for him, correct?
You could add some serrapeptase in for him, to help out his joints & any injuries from the
metabolic bone disease he may have going on.
How is his demeanor, is his beard normal color?

Keep us posted on him.
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Re: Help! Young beardy diagnosed with Mbd is worse again

Postby SquirkyTurtle » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:06 am

Hey Tracie!

Yes we are giving him liquid calcium and some pain meds every evening. I have never heard of serrapeptase but if it helps him I'm happy to see if I can get some! Is there something I should watch out for when I get it and regarding to dosage?

He's a bit lethargic but is defo perking up. His beard is normal and has actually been normal the entire time. I'm yet to see his beard black! :D
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