Brumation before adulthood?

Have any questions about one of the many subtle behaviors a beardie has? Ask and discuss it here!

Brumation before adulthood?

Postby melissamott124 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:37 pm

Hi everyone!

My little guy Lazlo has been showing pretty much every textbook symptom of brumation: decreased appetite (though he's still eating), sleepiness and laziness during the day, and attempting to dig into dark corners of his tank during the day. He's only 8 months old currently and I know brumation usually begins after 12 months, but is it possible he's getting ready to go into brumation early? He's pretty much full grown at this point - he's 19 inches long and very muscular with awesome fat pads. The vet didn't believe me when I told her he was under a year old, and I wouldn't have either if I hadn't raised him from a tiny baby!

As a side note: he did test positively for pinworms a little over a month ago. He was prescribed 4 doses of Panacur (one dose weekly) and he just finished up the last dose last week. I'm planning on taking a fecal sample back to the vet this week to make sure the infection was cleared. His stool still looks a little funky to me, but I'm going to wait and see what the fecal exam says before getting worried.

If anyone can give me some advice on whether or not to expect brumation, that would be really helpful! The symptoms of brumation mirror the symptoms of illness, and I just want to make sure I'm not missing an illness by assuming it's brumation.

Thanks in advance!
RIP to my sweet girl, Cleo (3/22/19)
User avatar
melissamott124
Hatchling Poster
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 5:33 pm
Location: New York
- Advertisement -
- Advertisement -

Re: Brumation before adulthood?

Postby KarrieRee » Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:51 pm

Semi brumation is possible meaning he is still coming out to bask but sleeping more than usual and eating is normal ---- what kind of lighting do you have in your tank ? UVB? We always try and rule lighting out in the tank before anything else --- do you have a hide in his tank for him ?
Karrie
KarrieRee
Extreme Poster
 
Posts: 4197
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:24 am

Re: Brumation before adulthood?

Postby melissamott124 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:05 pm

KarrieRee wrote:Semi brumation is possible meaning he is still coming out to bask but sleeping more than usual and eating is normal ---- what kind of lighting do you have in your tank ? UVB? We always try and rule lighting out in the tank before anything else --- do you have a hide in his tank for him ?
Karrie


Hi Karrie thanks for your comment! He has a UVB fluorescent tube that I just replaced about 2 weeks ago. His tank does have a hide - he's been spending more time in there during the day and spending a lot of time trying to dig under there too.
RIP to my sweet girl, Cleo (3/22/19)
User avatar
melissamott124
Hatchling Poster
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 5:33 pm
Location: New York

Re: Brumation before adulthood?

Postby KarrieRee » Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:14 pm

And he is a he? The digging in the hide is a sign of brumation - he is trying to find a comfortable spot - you can put some shreds of fleece in there for him to dig or paper towels cloth etc............ females will go around the tank and try and dig as well --- a sign of them getting ready to lay eggs -- that is why I asked about gender--- I would let him alone then --- mine did the same at that age where he slowed down and slept more but still came out to eat and bask - he is slowing down as its getting winter now but for him to go into full brumation at his age I would think not - more like a semi brumation - just keep an eye on him - I would get a weight on him now and keep track of his weight to make sure hes not losing any --- that would be a sign of illness --- also make sure he is staying hydrated too
Karrie
KarrieRee
Extreme Poster
 
Posts: 4197
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:24 am

Re: Brumation before adulthood?

Postby melissamott124 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:20 pm

KarrieRee wrote:And he is a he? The digging in the hide is a sign of brumation - he is trying to find a comfortable spot - you can put some shreds of fleece in there for him to dig or paper towels cloth etc............ females will go around the tank and try and dig as well --- a sign of them getting ready to lay eggs -- that is why I asked about gender--- I would let him alone then --- mine did the same at that age where he slowed down and slept more but still came out to eat and bask - he is slowing down as its getting winter now but for him to go into full brumation at his age I would think not - more like a semi brumation - just keep an eye on him - I would get a weight on him now and keep track of his weight to make sure hes not losing any --- that would be a sign of illness --- also make sure he is staying hydrated too
Karrie


Yeah I had a female before him so when he started digging I was wondering if I sexed him incorrectly, but I checked under his tail yesterday and from what I'm seeing he's definitely a male. I'll definitely throw some comfy cloths and fabrics into his hide to see if he likes that. Thanks for the advice!
RIP to my sweet girl, Cleo (3/22/19)
User avatar
melissamott124
Hatchling Poster
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 5:33 pm
Location: New York
- Advertisement -
- Advertisement -

Re: Brumation before adulthood?

Postby claudiusx » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:58 pm

Hi there,

They can definitely brumate before a year old, but it's less likely. If he's fully grown it increases his odds of brumating though.

It's possible the meds upset him a bit. What was the dose?

That being said, IME younger dragons brumate for a shorter time, so keep an eye on him and see how things play out. Let us know what the fecal comes back with.
It would be a good idea to start weighing him weekly to keep track of his weight.

-Brandon
User avatar
claudiusx
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 16186
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:44 pm
Location: California

Re: Brumation before adulthood?

Postby Gormagon » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:08 pm

It could be a side effect of the pancur as was stated before, but these creatures get something in their head, there's no stopping them.
My dragon "Charlie" decided that at 8 1/2 months old and, 20" long (back in August) that it was time for a long nap. Well he finally came out after 2 1/2 months, healthy as ever and, hungry as h%[[ . He didn't lose any noticeable weight and, didn't forget that he hates me either, LOL!!!
The wonderful world of bearded dragons is a magical land of mystery, enchantment, cuddles, love and, worry! A mysterious realm where things always seem to change in an instant and, the moment you think you have it all figured out, the rules change! You think you own your dragon, guess again. You are now a slave!!!
RIP Peaches 10-1-18 Forever in my Heart
User avatar
Gormagon
Extreme Poster
 
Posts: 3030
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:05 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Brumation before adulthood?

Postby kingofnobbys » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:15 pm

Unless you are interested in breeding the dragon, IMO brumation is unnecessary.

Dragons who live in the more tropical areas of their natural range don't brumate either in wild or in captivity.

None of my dragons have ever gone into full blown brumation.

Advice from my reptile vet ( Mt Sugarloaf Animal Hospital ) is no skink or dragon should be allowed to brumate over it's FIRST WINTER. They don't have the reserves and need the period to continue growing and developing.
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : new rescues Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, juvenile Cheakie (M) 21Oct19
Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
kingofnobbys
BD.org Sicko
 
Posts: 10924
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 10:56 pm

Re: Brumation before adulthood?

Postby melissamott124 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:37 pm

Hi everyone! Thanks for all of the comments.

I took Lazlo's fecal sample to the vet last week and it came back positive for pinworms again, which is a huge disappointment after 4 weeks of treatment. I spoke with the vet about the test results and she said that this may be Lazlo's "normal gut flora" since he is otherwise very healthy and isn't having diarrhea/loose stools. I'm not too sure how I feel about this explanation - can parasites really be a part of the normal flora?

Regarding his brumation symptoms - he's still sleepier than usual during the day but is eating really well and continuously gaining weight. I spoke with my vet about his symptoms too and she thinks he's just showing symptoms of semi-brumation.

For now I think I'm going to keep a close eye on him, but I'm also considering getting a second opinion regarding those parasites because something about that doesn't sit well with me at all. If anyone has any advice, I'd appreciate it!
RIP to my sweet girl, Cleo (3/22/19)
User avatar
melissamott124
Hatchling Poster
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 5:33 pm
Location: New York

Re: Brumation before adulthood?

Postby claudiusx » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:07 pm

Hi there,

Yes, it is semi-common for some number of parasites to be present. I won't necessarily say it's a normal part of the gut flora, as realistically, they are parasites. But parasites really only need to be treated when they are at high numbers.
A normal healthy immune system will keep parasite counts in check. But during times of stress or sickness, the counts can raise and cause additional issues if the body can't lower them back down again.

Did the vet tell you the counts?
Pinworms in general are very tricky to get rid of, but it is possible. Medicine alone isn't enough, there has to be daily deep cleanings as the pinworms can live outside of the body in the tank and on the furnitures for awhile and reinfect your dragon. Hopefully your vet went over this with you and explained the importance of keeping the tank clean during treatment.

-Brandon
User avatar
claudiusx
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 16186
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:44 pm
Location: California
- Advertisement -
- Advertisement -


Return to Behavior

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users