Unknown Problem - Any Help Would Be Great

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Unknown Problem - Any Help Would Be Great

Postby Oscarella » Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:36 pm

Hey any help would be appreciated. I tired to be as detailed as possible.

My bearded dragon Oscarella is 5 and a half years old.
Sex Female.

She has never layed any eggs.

She has been healthy her entire life with no problems until this year.

In January she had pin worms and was given medicine that cleared it right up.
But now there is some new unknown problem.

The Initial Problem:

Right now she is pooping 1 to 2 times a day for the last 3 weeks. Her poop is somewhat formed but looks more mucusy than before this all started.

Right now almost nothing is coming out because she hasn’t been eating.

She has now shown no interest in food for 7 days and is losing weight.

In July she has unformed poop for a few weeks and then suddenly had diarrhea 2 or 3 days in a row which prompted me to take her to the vet as she normally only poops once a week or once every two weeks.

The vet found flagellate’s in her poop and did a more extensive test fecal float test or something and said there were a lot of bacteria.

The vet prescribed:

Metronidazole .3 cc for 7 days
Ciprofloxacin .1 cc every 2 days for 14 days (7 doses)
And Probiotics.

Oscorella seemed to get better almost immediately with medication. The diarrhea stopping after a few days but she lost her appetite for over a week (maybe 2 weeks).

She began to look much better.

She would come out of her hide and bask. She would refuse her salad but began to vigorously eat super worms after I bought her some.

She seemed happy and back to normal about 3 weeks.

I thought everything was good.

Her appetite was good, she was perky and completely normal. Her poops looked good.

I took a fecal sample in to the vet for a follow up to make sure everything had cleared up.

The fecal sample came back clear.

The new problem

Then suddenly 2 weeks ago she started pooping every day sometimes twice a day. She is pooping in her cage which she never ever does except the 2 times she was sick before.

This time the poop was much more formed compared to when she had the flagellates in July/August but looks slightly more mucusy then before this all started.

Next her appetite began to decrease.

Then 7 days ago she decided to stop eating.

I took her to the vet as soon as we could get an appointment.

3 days ago we are at the vet.

A new fecal test is done and came back clean again.

Did blood work and it came back all normal. No elevated blood glucose.

Oscarella had dropped from 550 g to 490g

Vet gave her a shot of b12 to “boost her appetite.”

Vet gave me a new dose of Metronidazole .3 cc this time for 10 days (based on the fact it stopped her diarrhea before) and told me I should be force feeding her with critical care so she doesn’t lose more weight.

I’ve been force feeding her now for 3 days as well as giving her water and daily baths because all this pooping is dehydrating her a bit.

Once the food is in her mouth she seems to happily eat it.

She is completely alert and awake and running around as if nothing is happening.

She just doesn’t want to eat and keeps pooping even if nothing but a tiny urate comes out.
At this point I’m not sure what to do becuase this behavior is highly unusual.

Hopefully in a few days the medicine will stop her from pooping everyday and her appetite will come back because it worked before.

Right now I’m not really sure what is going on and neither is the vet.

Oscarella’s Setup:

She is in a 75 gallon tank with no sub rate.

Lights are a Repitsun 10.0 and ceramic heater on one side as well as a 100w Mega-ray Mercury Vapour Lamp above her basking spot. I changed all lights last week. All are the right distance away according to the package inserts.

She has a hide and she goes in a lot during the day.

On the cool side ~84 degrees.

Hot area’s she likes to sit are 95-98. She really doesn’t seem to like it if it’s hotter. She seems very happy at 95-98. When I get it over 100 she just goes to her hide after basking for only a short time.

This setup has seemed to work perfectly for the last 4 years. I take her out in the sun a few times a week.

Her diet has been collard greens, butternut squash, Mazuri bearded dragon pellets, super worms and phoenix worms. ( I had cut the bugs out for a few months after the pin worms but reintroduced them recently to spur her to eat.) She typically poops once a week or once every two weeks. I give her calcium, calcium +vitamin d and multivitamin on and off.
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Re: Unknown Problem - Any Help Would Be Great

Postby KarrieRee » Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:52 pm

Did the vet check for eggs? Has she been digging?
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Re: Unknown Problem - Any Help Would Be Great

Postby Oscarella » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:23 pm

KarrieRee wrote:Did the vet check for eggs? Has she been digging?
Karrie


The vet checked hers stomach with her hands. But I don't know what specifically they would do for this.

This vet "allegedly the lizard specialist" at the place I went. She did do more checks then the other 2 I've been to over the years. (Looking in her eyes with a medical instrument that looks like the thing normal doctors put in your ear.)

No Oscarella hasn't been digging or looking for a spot to dig.
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Re: Unknown Problem - Any Help Would Be Great

Postby KarrieRee » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:38 pm

Ok somebody else is gonna haft to help you
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Re: Unknown Problem - Any Help Would Be Great

Postby Oscarella » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:06 pm

KarrieRee wrote:Ok somebody else is gonna haft to help you
Karrie


Okay, thanks for the reply Karrie. Much appreciated.

I can try to give her something to dig in to see if that's it. Just incase.
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Re: Unknown Problem - Any Help Would Be Great

Postby Drache613 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:57 pm

Hello,

It is a possibility she could have eggs, but, she shouldn't be losing weight. She hasn't been
black bearding?
How much longer does she have on the meds the vet gave to her?
If you can, please post pictures of her so we can see her physical condition as well as the
tank setup.
As suggested, consider making a laybox for her, just in case. A blood test would have been
nice but I would recommend getting one, if she still seems to be having trouble. If she starts
to act ill, egg binding is a possibility & is somewhat common, too.

Let us know how she is doing.
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Re: Unknown Problem - Any Help Would Be Great

Postby Oscarella » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:07 am

Drache613 wrote:Hello,

It is a possibility she could have eggs, but, she shouldn't be losing weight. She hasn't been
black bearding?

How much longer does she have on the meds the vet gave to her?

If you can, please post pictures of her so we can see her physical condition as well as the
tank setup.

As suggested, consider making a laybox for her, just in case. A blood test would have been
nice but I would recommend getting one, if she still seems to be having trouble. If she starts
to act ill, egg binding is a possibility & is somewhat common, too.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie


No black bearding, she looks happy.

Today will be the 4th dose of meds this evening. (Meds perscribed biased only on the fact she had something before even though fecal was clean on Thursday 10 days total)

She has poop 4 times now in the last 16 hours. She even pooped int the middle of the night which she has never done. This is double the rate of pooping, before it was only 1 or 2. Basically just a tiny bit of water and urate. You can see the pictures.

I made her a lay box with a light and sand for her to dig. She has no interest so far. She only wants to sit around or sleep in her cave.

Today she has just been basking when I put her on her log or sleeping in her cave like normal.

The vet did do a blood test. All normal according to the vet.

One thing I'm noticing is Oscarella looks extremely bloated or full today. I didn't notice it before but she looks fuller in the belly like she does when she eats tons and doesn't poop for a week except she hasn't eaten anything in days hardly. Maybe it could be eggs?

I've uploaded picture. Let me know if anyone wants anything specific I can get it.

Pictures:

https://oscarella2019.tumblr.com/
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Re: Unknown Problem - Any Help Would Be Great

Postby KarrieRee » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:22 am

First thing I noticed is the UVB --- what tube are you using for bulb is it a T 8 or a T 5 --- it looks like shes not getting the proper UVB to digest food meaning the UVB needs to be to inside the tank for a T 8 6-8 inches or if its a T 5 it should be 10-12 inches and it looks like she cannot get underneath it which she needs to be able to --- lighting in the tank is the most crucial thing --- something has changed for her behavior to have changed -- UVB will have an effect on eating ---
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Re: Unknown Problem - Any Help Would Be Great

Postby Oscarella » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:52 am

KarrieRee wrote:First thing I noticed is the UVB --- what tube are you using for bulb is it a T 8 or a T 5 --- it looks like shes not getting the proper UVB to digest food meaning the UVB needs to be to inside the tank for a T 8 6-8 inches or if its a T 5 it should be 10-12 inches and it looks like she cannot get underneath it which she needs to be able to --- lighting in the tank is the most crucial thing --- something has changed for her behavior to have changed -- UVB will have an effect on eating ---
Karrie


Hey Karrie Thanks for the reply.

The tube is a 36" 25watt T8 Reptisun 10.0 which claims 20" uvb conversion according to the package. When she sits on top of her hide which she does a lot she is about 16 inches away. The floor is exactly 20 inches away. Which should put her in range.

The other light is also a uvb megaray mercury vapor 100 watt which she can sit under on her log. Which puts her in it's range of 11.8 - 24 inches. Which should give her full sun at the top and shaded sun almost to the floor.

Also, I also take her out in the sun a few times a week for 30 mins or so depending on the weather.

I could get the light closer.

I do think I'm in the range according to the package and my measuring tape. Plus this tube has been on top of that tank for 4 years like that with no problems.

The only thing that could have possibly changed for setup I would think would be a bad bulb. Hence I changed both of them last week but this is still going on.
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Re: Unknown Problem - Any Help Would Be Great

Postby KarrieRee » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:59 am

A T 8 should be 6-8 inches from basking -- if the actual distance from her spot is 16" it is too far away --- T 8 are not that strong so if I am reading right she is 16' from actual basking spot????? I dont use mega ray and from what I understand they need to be hanging above the tank and certain distances etc ................. I am not familiar w/ them and so I dont use them ---- I use a regular actual bright white basking bulb and Arcadia 14% bulb in a T 5 fixture--- my guess its the distance of that Reptisun -- some others on here will haft to weigh in on this but that is what I am thinking at this point-- those all in one are too complex for me to work w/ ---- :D
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Re: Unknown Problem - Any Help Would Be Great

Postby Oscarella » Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:22 pm

KarrieRee wrote:A T 8 should be 6-8 inches from basking -- if the actual distance from her spot is 16" it is too far away --- T 8 are not that strong so if I am reading right she is 16' from actual basking spot????? I dont use mega ray and from what I understand they need to be hanging above the tank and certain distances etc ................. I am not familiar w/ them and so I dont use them ---- I use a regular actual bright white basking bulb and Arcadia 14% bulb in a T 5 fixture--- my guess its the distance of that Reptisun -- some others on here will haft to weigh in on this but that is what I am thinking at this point-- those all in one are too complex for me to work w/ ---- :D
Karrie


Thanks for the input. I think T8 is the fitting size not the strength for reptisun.

She's 16" from it in one place she sits sometimes.

And 20" form the tube which should fill the whole half the cage with uvb according to the manufacture.

Unless I'm missing something.

Here's the bulb:

https://zoomed.com/t8-reptisun-10-0-uvb/

That's the tube bulb.

So she should be getting some uvb everywhere unless she hides in her cave.

And in her hotter basking spot at the top of her log has the Megaray which she is in the range. That range is supposed to be 11.8 inches to ~24 which she can sit in easily on her log.

So I think the whole tank should have uvb.
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Re: Unknown Problem - Any Help Would Be Great

Postby KarrieRee » Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:29 pm

The T 8 is the strength of the bulb there is a T 5 that is stronger - it has nothing to do w/ the fitting size ------ and it is not recommended for it to be full length of tank --- that distance she is not getting enough UVB others on here will say the same thing
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Re: Unknown Problem - Any Help Would Be Great

Postby Oscarella » Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:39 am

Update:

Seems we've narrowed it down to being something wrong with her digestion system.

The vet isn't sure what it is going on.

But Oscarella isnt' digesting her food and she has spit some of it back up and has aspirated some of it now and has a pneumonia.

She's on antibotics for the pneumonia.

We did x-rays and a contrast x-ray and found nothing. The blood test is normal.

Over the last few days she is looking better but there is a big problem because she is becoming malnourished from the digestive issue.

At this point Oscorella seems to not be digesting her critical care or even absorbing the water possibly. It's just sitting in her stomach. Yesterday when we picked her up at an angle a few days of critical car and water came back up out her nose and mouth. Even though she's barrely got any down for days so it must have just been sitting in there for days.

The vet prescribed metoclopramide to help stimulate her bowels. She took yesterday but no change so far.

Oscarella is still passing urates and lot of liquid with it but there seems to be some digestive issue preventing her from digesting her food.

I don't know if anyone has experienced this.

The vet suspects some sort of tumor but nothing has shown on the x-rays so she can't be sure.
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Re: Unknown Problem - Any Help Would Be Great

Postby KarrieRee » Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:53 am

Hopefully the tumor thing is not there-- I still stand by my first suggestion w/ UVB should be 6-8 inches from basking hence the digestion issue- others on here are gonna agree the T 8 us too far away for her to absorb the nutrients she needs
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Re: Unknown Problem - Any Help Would Be Great

Postby Oscarella » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:46 am

KarrieRee wrote:Hopefully the tumor thing is not there-- I still stand by my first suggestion w/ UVB should be 6-8 inches from basking hence the digestion issue- others on here are gonna agree the T 8 us too far away for her to absorb the nutrients she needs
Karrie


The T8 maybe at bit far away for full sun. I can move it down but it shouldn't matter because...

She is exactly with in range of the mega ray at her main basking spot and she get's hours of real sun a week.
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