Eye Problems - Bad

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Eye Problems - Bad

Postby blongo804 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:37 am

Hey everyone,

Our beardie, Reign, is having some pretty debilitating eye issues as of late. I'll try to bullet point the tank/food layout, to start:

- 40 gallon tank with carpet all his life
- Basking spot about 95-100 degrees depending on where you shoot the thermometer gun
- UVB has always been a tub. I've been through 1 reptisun 10.0, and replaced it with Arcadia D3+ 12% UVB T5 Bulb when it got about 6 months old (we've had Reign for a little over a year)
- UVB sits on top of a screen which I know isn't ideal but the best I can do. It covers probably 75% of the tank
- UVB side is around 75 degrees
- Diet has always included greens. He seems to like cilantro the best.
- Insect wise, he's had dubia for a while, then primarily phoenix worms. Occasionally superworms and hornworms.
- I use D3 calcium powder 3 times a week, regular calcium every other day.

The problem: when he eats, his eyes both gloss over with a gooey, clear fluid. Sometimes it's off-clear. When this happens, he's practically blind and cannot eat. When I clean the fluid, it just comes back when he eats, and throughout the day while I'm at work, I usually come home to his eyes stuck shut.

This is really pretty devastating. He's honestly suffering and really can't eat anymore. He somehow gets through his greens, but literally can't be bothered with any insects. He doesn't poop, hardly moves, and often buries himself under his carpet due likely to stress.

MBD is certainly present at this point as he isn't eating enough to consume the calcium needed nor is he active enough to sit under his lights all day.

What can I do.. Vets are useless. One gave useless eyedrops, one doesn't seem to be available ever apparently.

Please help.. :(
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Re: Eye Problems - Bad

Postby claudiusx » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:40 am

Can you post a picture of your setup?

The t5 on top of the screen is fine. They are much stronger bulbs and can still provide ample uv exposure through a screen. As long as it's not a super far distance away. Although the uvb bulb should be mainly at the basking site, not the cool end.

Pictures of his eyes would help too.

-Brandon
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Re: Eye Problems - Bad

Postby blongo804 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:54 am

claudiusx wrote:Can you post a picture of your setup?

The t5 on top of the screen is fine. They are much stronger bulbs and can still provide ample uv exposure through a screen. As long as it's not a super far distance away. Although the uvb bulb should be mainly at the basking site, not the cool end.

Pictures of his eyes would help too.

-Brandon

Thank you for the quick response, Brandon. I will see if I can get the UVB closer to him for better effectiveness.

I do have a picture on hand of his tank. It's just opposite now. Log is on right side, tree is on left, and no more hammock. The lighting is the same.

https://ibb.co/TRYmrH7

I'll try to get some pictures of his eyes later when I'm home. I thought I had a few pics on hand but can't find them.
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Re: Eye Problems - Bad

Postby claudiusx » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:57 am

Thanks for the pic.

You might not have to move it closer. They are strong bulbs and closer isn't always better. My point was that the T5's can be on top of the screen just fine, unless you have a super tall tank. :mrgreen:

While not really related to the eye problem most likely, I did want to just make sure you have a temperature gun or a digital with probe end thermometer also since I saw the dial stick on thermometer.

What drops did the first vet prescribe you?

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Re: Eye Problems - Bad

Postby blongo804 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:00 am

claudiusx wrote:Thanks for the pic.

You might not have to move it closer. They are strong bulbs and closer isn't always better. My point was that the T5's can be on top of the screen just fine, unless you have a super tall tank. :mrgreen:

While not really related to the eye problem most likely, I did want to just make sure you have a temperature gun or a digital with probe end thermometer also since I saw the dial stick on thermometer.

What drops did the first vet prescribe you?

-Brandon


Ah okay. Makes sense. Glad to hear that at least!

Don't mind the stupid dial thermometer. I stuck it on the first day we brought him home then bought a temp gun that seems to be fairly accurate. I just never removed the dial one assuming it'd leave an ugly residue behind.

I hope I have the little bottle of drops at home. I will also check for that and get back to you.
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Re: Eye Problems - Bad

Postby blongo804 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:36 am

Here's some pictures of how I found Reign yesterday. I did manage to get both eyes open, but the eye that had the black gunk around it was MUCH harder. This black stuff turns hard like a rock and takes some dabs of warm water to loosen and remove.

Pic 1, worst eye
https://ibb.co/8bXk5rt

Pic 2, not as bad eye
https://ibb.co/jGTY3wd

Both were stuck totally shut initially. Pic 1 is after a little warm water just to get a pic of "in progress" of getting his eye open.
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Re: Eye Problems - Bad

Postby CooperDragon » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:51 am

That looks pretty rough. I know you mentioned that the vets haven't been much help but have they suggested taking a blood sample to test? That would show how his kidneys and liver are functioning as well as show white blood cell count which may indicate presence of infection.

Some people have had good luck using Manuka or raw/unpasteurized honey on eye wounds (and other wounds). I think that may be worth a try in this case. If there is a bacterial issue at play it may be helpful. If it is a result of a problem with one of his organs it may not do any good but it shouldn't cause harm.
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Re: Eye Problems - Bad

Postby blongo804 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:57 am

CooperDragon wrote:That looks pretty rough. I know you mentioned that the vets haven't been much help but have they suggested taking a blood sample to test? That would show how his kidneys and liver are functioning as well as show white blood cell count which may indicate presence of infection.

Some people have had good luck using Manuka or raw/unpasteurized honey on eye wounds (and other wounds). I think that may be worth a try in this case. If there is a bacterial issue at play it may be helpful. If it is a result of a problem with one of his organs it may not do any good but it shouldn't cause harm.

They definitely didn't offer a blood test, but I can see how that would be helpful in this situation. I think i'll have to go back and straight demand it at this point if they don't suggest it first.

I've read about the honey method and may give that a shot.

I'm worried this problem lies somewhere within. The fact that it definitely happens while he's eating really causes concern for me.
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Re: Eye Problems - Bad

Postby Drache613 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:31 am

Hello,

Poor guy, his eyes must really be uncomfortable.
When did the eye issues start, before the installation of the T5 or after the installation of it?
How long have you been using the D3 supplementation for him?

As suggested, try using some sterile saline solution twice a day, or you can dilute some
manuka honey or raw, unpasteurized honey (warmed slightly to thin it out), & get that into
his eye to help with irritation. Terramycin antibiotic ointment is very good for the eyes, too if
there is infection going on.
You can also get some chamomile tea bags, warmed/moistened at night, to place on his eyes
with a towel over his eyes before bedtime. It has a healing effect so it might help his eyes to
feel better.
A blood test would be a good idea too. Perhaps he has some blocked up sinus ducts that are
causing the swelling but hopefully nothing serious like heart or kidney issues.

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Re: Eye Problems - Bad

Postby smarcy76 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:08 pm

We are having similar issues. Did you find any answers or solutions?
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Re: Eye Problems - Bad

Postby Drache613 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:54 pm

Hello,


****Smarcy76****
Just so more people are able to view your case, go ahead & start your own thread here
for more attention.
Thanks! We will be happy to review your tank setup with you to see what is going on with
your dragon as well.

Tracie
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Re: Eye Problems - Bad

Postby kingofnobbys » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:29 am

for blongo804

How is your dragon now ? what happened ?
Did you get a vet involved ?

Somehow I missed this one.

I don't think this is related to the lighting. Blaming the UV lighting is a red-herring , photoconjuctivitis is caused by poorly manufactured UV globes and tubes ( cheaper phosphors and poor quality quartz used in the globe / tube ( that leak UVC through small imperfections and fissures in the quartz ) , your UVB tube is a very good quality tube so this is not the cause.
If you had a fine particulate bedding I'd say this is more likely causing the issue.

IMO
1) not due to the UV source, if anything , it needs to be moved closer to the basking spot.
2) not the substrate


Your dragon has conjunctivitis and needs to be assessed by a reptile vet, to determine if the infection in both eyes is
viral
or
bacterial
or
fungal
or
if the eye infection/ weeping/ swelling is due to something else ( causing fluid buildup in the eye sockets ) , the eye ducts and mouth are connected ( plumbing wise ) and if there is an abscess in the area between the eye sockets ( you mention eyes weep when eating - this indicates something is wrong in the area between the roof of the mouth and nasal area and eye sockets - mention this observation to the vet ), this can cause both eyes to swell and weep and you risk the abscess causing a nasty systemic infection.
The sooner this is dealt with by a competent experienced reptile vet , the cheaper and faster and better the outcome.



Conjunctivitis (all forms caused by viruses, bacteria and fungal) is highly contagious, so you need to be very careful to avoid spreading it to any other reptiles you have.

We are all guessing without a proper vet assessment.

If you apply antibiotic eye ointment or eye drops (aimed at bacteria / viruses) and it's actually a fungal form of conjunctivitis you WILL make the infection worse.
I think this is past the point where 50% manuka honey in sterile boiled water used as eyedrops will help.

for Smarcy76 , we need to see images of the dragon's eyes, the light and details , and the of the general tank arrangement.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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