Advice needed regarding black stains on teeth

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Advice needed regarding black stains on teeth

Postby Sakai » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:55 am

Hello guys, i just noticed my beardie Aerys have black stains on his teeth recently that seems to have been there for quite some time. [Click image to enlarge]


As for my other beardie Daenys, Im not too sure if she has black stains as well since it appears to be more reddish. (near the front on both sides) [Click image to enlarge]
[Click image to enlarge]

The vet had assured me that it wasnt mouth rot for both cases due to the absence of foul smell and insisted that Daenys' case was the same as Aerys'-- tartar buildup.
Since my 1st visit, i've been brushing their teeth with chlorhexidine diluted though i must admit i havent had the time to do so everyday. So his teeth looks pretty much the same to me during the 2nd visit. The vet however said there was slight improvement in that the stains arent as dark as before (I really cant see the difference no matter how hard I look at the comparisons in the picture though :/) [Click image to enlarge]

I voiced my concern that I was worried the chlorhexidine might be harmful for their systems over time since she said it might take some time for the tartar to clear up and I was worried that it would spread all over his teeth. The vet then gave me an alternative saying I could go for scaling which she recommends as brushing their teeth daily dosent guarantee a complete cleansing of tartar, but there is the risk during the administration of anesthetic :?
I told her I needed some time to consider. What would you guys advise?

P.S.: Also I did read on a few other posts regarding similar cases saying offering hard-shelled bugs such as dubia would help but Aerys has been avoiding the dubias like the plagues ever since I introduced the supers to his diet and Im not sure how I can get him to eat. Ive only ever tried assist feeding him one dubia and that stressed me out completely. Any ideas what I can do?
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Re: Advice needed regarding black stains on teeth

Postby MrSpectrum » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:51 am

Sakai wrote:Also I did read on a few other posts regarding similar cases saying offering hard-shelled bugs such as dubia would help but Aerys has been avoiding the dubias like the plagues ever since I introduced the supers to his diet and Im not sure how I can get him to eat.

This has just been addressed here. :wink:
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Re: Advice needed regarding black stains on teeth

Postby claudiusx » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:04 am

Hi there,

There really is no reason to treat it and I'd definitely avoid the two suggestions the vet made.

You can let some of your supers turn into beetles, that will help clean the teeth a bit too. If you're going to do anything about it, it's probably best to just offer some harder crunchier foods like the beetles or dubias. Hard salad items like carrots and squash will help too.

But it sounds like your dragon isnt bothered by it, right?

-Brandon
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Re: Advice needed regarding black stains on teeth

Postby Aaradimian » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:19 am

claudiusx wrote:Hi there,

There really is no reason to treat it and I'd definitely avoid the two suggestions the vet made.

You can let some of your supers turn into beetles, that will help clean the teeth a bit too. If you're going to do anything about it, it's probably best to just offer some harder crunchier foods like the beetles or dubias. Hard salad items like carrots and squash will help too.

But it sounds like your dragon isnt bothered by it, right?

-Brandon


Supers turn into beetles!? Learned something today :study:
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Re: Advice needed regarding black stains on teeth

Postby Sakai » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:57 pm

MrSpectrum wrote:This has just been addressed here. :wink:

Thank you for this. I've actually stop feeding him supers for a few days now but still Aerys remains uninterested in crickets, even seemingly repugnant at the sight of dubias; I just wasnt sure if I should quit feeding him altogether since I once read that they are unreasonable lil creatures who would rather starve themselves. I havent tried bsfl but are they considered crunchy?

claudiusx wrote: There really is no reason to treat it and I'd definitely avoid the two suggestions the vet made.

Im curious, should brushing be avoided too? (How I clean their teeth is by brushing against the surface gently with a Q-tip dipped in chlorhexidine diluted and rinse when done)
And I do have some superworm beetles on my hand but is there a limit to the intake? Like how long should I be feeding them beetles and should I dust them as i normally do with other feeders?
Ive also included carrot and pumpkin slices into their diet but they dont eat them on their own; I have to make sure they eat them by feeding them.
Both my dragons are still being their usual self, they're alert and active(though not all the time), the only thing being they show no interest in their greens recently so I wasnt sure if they're just being picky or if there is any oral discomfort. But then again, i guess it's safe to rule that out since they definitely show interest in the supers :shock:
Last edited by Sakai on Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Advice needed regarding black stains on teeth

Postby MrSpectrum » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:31 am

Sakai wrote:I once read that they are unreasonable lil creatures who would rather starve themselves.

I've never heard/read that personally. Was the source talking about healthy or sick dragons?
If you could find the source, I'd be interested in reading it myself.

If it were me (and I'm open to others' suggestions here) I'd offer him nothing but greens and whichever feeder insects you're trying to get him to eat (dubias, crickets, etc.) every day. BDs have been known to stop eating for some pretty long times, especially if/when brumating.

I don't know if bsfl are crunchy or not--others here do.

Brushing?... There are other threads here and elsewhere that discuss that better than I could.
brushing bearded dragon teeth but since your vet has examined him and determined it's not something like mouth rot, it may be more of an aesthetic issue than a health issue. YMMV

I don't know enough yet to comment on feeding darkling beetles, but IMO, eating something is better than nothing. I'm thinking a few--not necessarily an all-you-can-eat buffet. :wink:

AFAIK, any insect feeders should be dusted as you would crickets or anything else. There may be a few exceptions (those that are very high in calcium). You can google: nutritional value of insect feeders for more on that. :wink:

I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if raw carrot or pumpkin are going to be hard enough for tartar control. (Why can't BDs just eat Milkbone? :lol: I'm kidding, of course!)

Both my dragons are still being their usual self, they're alert and active(though not all the time), the only thing being they show no interest in their greens recently so I wasnt sure if they're just being picky or if there is any oral discomfort. But then again, i guess it's safe to rule that out since they definitely show interest in the supers :shock:

A super habit, eh? :lol: Things could be worse--a lot worse!
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Re: Advice needed regarding black stains on teeth

Postby AHBD » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:48 am

Your babies sure know how to smile for the camera. :) Very pretty scaly kids ! I agree that you just hold off on superworms, beardies will not starve to death. That's a myth for sure. They will eat the dubias + crickets when hungry enough. And you can use a soft baby size toothbrush to very gently go over the teeth but the stains are not really harmful.
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Re: Advice needed regarding black stains on teeth

Postby MrSpectrum » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:11 am

A thought just occurred to me... Could something they've been eating be responsible for the stains?
Berries (blueberries, pomegranates, blackberries, cherries, cranberries, grapes, and other colored fruits) are known to do that (I'm going to rule out coffee... :lol: ) as are some other foods that may be high(er) in acid. Let the stains oxidize for a while, and they may darken.

YMMV
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Re: Advice needed regarding black stains on teeth

Postby Sakai » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:53 am

MrSpectrum wrote: Was the source talking about healthy or sick dragons? If you could find the source, I'd be interested in reading it myself.

Apparently it was just a really stubborn dragon. Im sorry I cant remember exactly where I read it, it was quite some time ago when I came across it. :oops:
MrSpectrum wrote: I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if raw carrot or pumpkin are going to be hard enough for tartar control.
Yea i thought so too :?

MrSpectrum wrote:A thought just occurred to me... Could something they've been eating be responsible for the stains?
Berries (blueberries, pomegranates, blackberries, cherries, cranberries, grapes, and other colored fruits) are known to do that

Hmm I dont think so, at least not for Aerys, but for Daenys, it could be possible since she's does take black cherry extract due to gout issues.

Im pretty sure Aerys isnt brumating though. I live in a country where we have summer all year long and im aware that brumation can still occur, but his eyes would definitely lit up when he sees supers.
I did some research prior to this and brushing is normal apparently. But the cleanser that was suggested the most was Maxiguard gel, so I figure it would be the best option but it wasnt something I could get my hands on here. And since the stain seems to be over quite a huge surface area, I wasnt sure how long brushing with the chlorhexidine would take, or if that would be harmful at all during this brushing period. The vet did mentioned that it wouldnt be gone anytime soon as the tartar had hardened considerably. And even if I did manage to clean it, it wouldnt be completely gone which is why they recommended scaling. :(

AHBD wrote:Your babies sure know how to smile for the camera. :) Very pretty scaly kids ! I agree that you just hold off on superworms, beardies will not starve to death. That's a myth for sure.

Oh thank you, that's reassuring to know. :D
I do get that stains can be normal and it may be an aesthetic issue for now, it's just im terrified at the thought that given time, it would lead to infection which could result in serious health issues, at least that's what i read from http://www.vetstreet.com/our-pet-expert ... xotic-pets
https://bbevs.com.au/pogo-bearded-drago ... procedure/
:cry:
Last edited by Sakai on Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Advice needed regarding black stains on teeth

Postby AHBD » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:00 am

If you trust your vet + they have good reviews then you should do what you think is best, you'll feel better going with what you think is best.
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Re: Advice needed regarding black stains on teeth

Postby Sakai » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:54 pm

AHBD wrote:If you trust your vet + they have good reviews then you should do what you think is best, you'll feel better going with what you think is best.


Well actually, I trust the people on the forum here more than the limited exotic vets in my country heh :mrgreen:
Well not that i think I know better, it's just.. they dont give me the assurance :silent: Not to say they have absolutely no knowledge on exotic animals whatsoever, of course, but the impression they gave me was that they arent really experienced either.
And since i dont really trust myself in making sound judgment, I decided I want to know how other beardie lovers would handle such a situation before I make a decision. :|
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