Bubs

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Bubs

Postby Peeps » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:21 am

Okay so having a bit of problems with Bubs again. She has never black bearded before but now I’ll come home and she will have a black beard and stress marks. She is still eating good and is very alert. When i take her out of her cage it seems to get a little better. Her stool was pretty green yesterday and she has a lot of gas when she goes. She has muscle twitches basically all over her body now. Her chest arms legs and belly seem to twitch at times. She has not attempted to lay eggs but i was told she did have them. I am going to get bloodwork, xray and fecal done this week. Her colors are still bright and she isn’t black bearding all the time. No open mouth or aggression but I want to know what’s going on.[Click image to enlarge]
[Click image to enlarge]
[Click image to enlarge]
-Mykenzie
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Re: Bubs

Postby CooperDragon » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:26 am

She looks OK in the photos. If the beard gets lighter when she is out of the tank, that may be what she wants. If you're going into the vet it might be good to have an ultrasound done to check on the eggs.
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Re: Bubs

Postby claudiusx » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:14 pm

Hi there,

I agree with cooper. Have you put her in a lay box yet?

Is the beard photo you posted what you usually see when her beard darkens or does it get really black?

-Brandon
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Re: Bubs

Postby Drache613 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:45 pm

Hello,

Let us know what the vet says. An ultrasound would be very helpful, but if her eggs are already
shelled then x-rays would show placement better.
A bloodtest is always useful, so you can basically see what could be going on. Are you getting
enough calcium into her?
Remind me again what type of UVB lighting she has?
A laybox would be a good idea in case that's what she is needing right now. Sometimes, they
wont use a laybox but a lot of times, they will.

Tracie
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Re: Bubs

Postby Peeps » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:47 am

I just bought her a new UVB as the other was about 6 months old. It is a reptisun 10.0 T5 HO and it is mounted in a light fixture with a reflector underneath the wire mesh. It is 22 inches long and she is in a 40 gallon breeder. Here is a photo of her recent radiograph 09/12. See anything abnormal? I do not see any eggs and her fecal was totally negative. Bloodwork was sent out yesterday so should be back within the next couple days. She has not black bearded since and has no stress marks, however she seems to be slowing down a bit. laying down a lot and seems bloated in her abdomen. Still has a good appetite for squash and worms. I will update you with the bloodwork when it comes back. I just wanted to know how the xrays look, is there anything abnormal or does everything look good. (She had just ate previously to getting these) I know her bone density looks pretty good atleast. [Click image to enlarge]
-Mykenzie
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Re: Bubs

Postby Peeps » Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:40 am

[Click image to enlarge]
[Click image to enlarge]


Here are her bloodwork values. Her Glucose is really elevated and now I’m terrified its GNT whoch 2 other dragons of mine had. However she is eating and not acting very weird. Maybe a bit more tired than usual..
-Mykenzie
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Re: Bubs

Postby claudiusx » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:06 am

Hi there,

Wow, yeah her Glucose is pretty high. And her liver is pretty taxed right now too. (the AST)

The CPK value is extremely elevated IMO, did the vet mention that? It's possible that this is all relating to GNT but to be honest with you, I don't remember (or can't find anything) that shows if CPK levels elevate also with GNT.
Usually GNT isn't diagnosed until it's too late, so it's possible this is early stages.

CPK along with the AST levels could be indicating some organ failure, but I would wait for word from Tracie first, she knows a lot more about blood levels than I do.

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Re: Bubs

Postby Drache613 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:45 pm

Hello,

How is your girl doing this evening?
The AST is high which does mean the liver is having a hard time or at the very least, is
stressed. The Uric acid levels are on a low normal. Those levels can indicate low vitamin
B levels, dehydration & sometimes pregnancy.
The CPK levels normally get elevated from stress & from tail sticks also.
The white blood cells counts, all look pretty good at the moment.
Her glucose levels are high so I hope that doesn't indicate cancer .

Let us know how she is doing.
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Re: Bubs

Postby Peeps » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:35 pm

Hello everyone,
So the vet did an ultrasound and could not see anything but fluid in her abdomen. The fluid was yellowish red and under the microscope and there were only red blood cells. However they said that there really aren’t any other causes for that high of glucose and fluid in the abdomen. She ate her whole bowl of greens yesterday and isn’t showing any other signs. Maybe a little lethargy in her tank but no black beard or anything. I’m pretty devastated and I guess at this point I just monitor her and if she starts showing any other signs like anorexia or constant black beard etc I will have to let her go. This is the 3rd dragon that this has happened to of mine and I’m honestly just in awe because I love them but if everytime I get one it’s going to get cancer and die at the age of 2, whats the point of putting myself through that constant pain..
-Mykenzie
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Re: Bubs

Postby Drache613 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:22 pm

Hello,

I am so sorry this is happening! Have you gotten the dragons all at the same place, or at
different/various areas?
When will the results from the aspiration of fluid be back? What else did the vet have to say
at this point? Did he recommend any type of treatment for her at all?
If she doesn't have any black beard, that is all you can do is monitor her for distress. I would
recommend getting her started on monolaurin (extract from coconut) which is supposed to be
effective against some types of cancer. You could also try using Manuka honey, orally, which
is also supposed to help against types of cancer.
Is her weight stable right now?

Tracie
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Re: Bubs

Postby Peeps » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:44 pm

I’ve gotten all 3 from petco/petsmart same area. What should I do to help her liver out or lower her glucose levels? She hasn’t been moving a ton in her tank, so kinda lethergic I suppose, she is still eager to eat but her belly is swollen with fluid and her edema in her beard i feel is becoming more common than it used to be. They are not sending out the fluid because that wont change what they saw which was just red blood cells.
-Mykenzie
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Re: Bubs

Postby Peeps » Thu Sep 19, 2019 4:56 pm

Her weight seems to be increasing if anything.. she scared me tonight she was laying down and then every time she exhaled i could see both sides of her pelvis region push in as well and she puffed her beard and looked uncomfortable. No black beard still.. when they weighed her she was 600 something..however i only feed her greens so I’m assuming the excess fluid is what is causing her weight gain. I don’t know whT to do..
-Mykenzie
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Re: Bubs

Postby Drache613 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:05 pm

Hello,

How is your girl doing tonight?
Are you using milk thistle for her liver right now? That can help clean out the liver & hopefully
help it function better which may lower the glucose levels.
What do the vets feel that can be done, have they made any suggestions?
There are so many health issues in reptiles that are not studied which makes it hard to find any
answers or routes for treatments. I'll try to help as much as I can.

Tracie
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