Decimated my Flytrap; Question about dried bugs and others

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Decimated my Flytrap; Question about dried bugs and others

Postby Sabotender » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:33 pm

Okay, so my bearded dragon Rusty plucked my new flytrap bare the moment I removed it from its plastic pakckaging. I did some research, and it doesn't appear to be poisonous, but its on the list of things that you shouldn't feed on a regular basis. Has been permanantly removed until the bell jar that I've ordered arrives in the post.

I had a question about feeding dried crickets, grasshoppers and black soldier fly larvae. I have not had luck raising any of the bugs or keeping live ones. Crickets stink up to high heaven and are noisy and ridiculous low lifespan. Grasshoppers aren't really avaialble anywhere live, and any kind of worm that I've tried live just...DIE and they are simply too expensive to waste and not be able to use as feed. I don't like the idea of introducing any sort of roach in my home, so those are out of the question.

What are your opinions on dried feeder insects compared to fresh? I probably won't bother with live insects anymore because I want to maximise my bang for my buck. I am not worried at all about the lack of water, because he readily drinks the filtered water in his water dish and was a drinker the moment I displayed the bowl in his cage.

I am already feeding my dragon dried bugs and he eats them up like you wouldn't believe. Simply cleans his plate during feeding time. I've switched from dried mealworms to dried soldier fly larvae since mealworms have a hard outer shell or something.

So to recap, his diet currently consists of: Dried Crickets, grasshoppers, black soldier fly larvae, cucumber, kale, peas, carrots, rocket. I was actually surprised how readily he took to vegetables, actually. No coaxing required. Gobbled everything down as soon as I offered it.

Never seen dandilion except the stuff that grows wild, and everyone uses weed killer around here. No alfalfa or anything thats called 'greens' looked everwhere for mustard greens, turnip greens, etc to no avail. Best I can do are the boxed salads that I get myself. I typically get the rocket and kale (I love kale) or rocket and spinach. I eat lots of radishes and sometimes I can get them from the store with fresh tops (of which I eat myself), can the tops be fed? How about the bulb?

Side note: I've decided to call my dragon 'Rusty' (if you haven't already noticed) regardless of gender it turns out to be.


Thanks for reading!
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Re: Decimated my Flytrap; Question about dried bugs and othe

Postby kingofnobbys » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:53 am

Dry insects are a VERY POOR CHOICE of food for a dragon.

1) no moisture in them , a big source of hydration for bearded dragons is moisture in LIVE insects.
2) not as nutritious , they loose a lot in the drying process , might as well feed the dragon cardboard.
3) impaction risk is increased.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
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Re: Decimated my Flytrap; Question about dried bugs and othe

Postby claudiusx » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:30 am

Hi there,

Most would agree that live feeders are a better choice, however, dried is better than nothing! :) especially if you dont have easy access to live.

Drying the insects really only lowers the levels of volatile vitamins like a and c. The fact that Rusty drinks well and eats a good salad, makes up for the real downfall of dried insects.

Most dragons dont like dried insects which is another reason we tend to suggest live prey. But if yours eats them readily, and you can provide a varied diet with them, try it out. I would still try to add live feeders, also for varieties sake, whenever you can :)

The more varied the diet, the less you need to worry about nutritional gaps and deficiencies :D

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Re: Decimated my Flytrap; Question about dried bugs and othe

Postby KarrieRee » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:34 am

I would suggest getting some dubia roaches--- they are way better for nutrition -- here is some info for you on those
Dubias
• Wide range of sizes
• Long life span
• Excellent nutrition
• Easy to digest
• High in protein
Convenient for you
• Odorless and soundless
• Will not infest your home
• Can be stored out of sight
• Easy to care for
• Cannot jump, fly or climb
you can google dubia roaches - lots of suppliers - I get mine from dubiaroaches.com -- they can be kept in a 10 gallon aquarium or tote fed dubia food carrots apples strawberries etc-- they dont like greens much -
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Re: Decimated my Flytrap; Question about dried bugs and othe

Postby harshstonewhite83 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:47 am

Yeah go with dubias. Very easy, cheap, and my beardie loves them. Can get 300 in a small container from Amazon.com for like $24. Shipping is usually free from those companies too. Just make sure the postman doesn't leave them outside in the extreme cold or heat.
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Re: Decimated my Flytrap; Question about dried bugs and othe

Postby Juniper » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:23 pm

I understand not wanting to get roaches given their reputation/the associations people have with them, but having kept both roaches and crickets as feeder insects, I can tell you that roaches are much less disgusting than you might expect. They avoid pretty much all the problems you have stated with crickets and worms. Unlike crickets, dubia roaches do not smell, do not bite you or your dragon, do not die easily, do not cannibalize each other, do not make noise, do not escape their container and infest your home (I have had so many crickets escape, but not one roach), move relatively slowly, and rarely carry parasites. Dubia roaches are also not a pest species/not one of the roaches you find infesting human dwellings. I am someone who is grossed out by bugs and I highly recommend dubia roaches. A bearded dragon will not thrive in the long term on dried bugs. They lose nutrients as well as moisture in the drying process, and even if they didn't, I like to allow my beardie to still act like a lizard and chase bugs while living in captivity; it seems like important enrichment. Dubias are not what you expect when you hear "roach;" they are so easy and clean compared to every other live feeder I have tried.
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Re: Decimated my Flytrap; Question about dried bugs and othe

Postby Blackenedsabbath » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:04 am

If you are in area where dubias aren't permitted, you could potentially try banded crickets. They are quieter and don't seem to smell nearly as bad as the typical feeder crickets. They're also considered less aggressive so biting your dragon is less of an issue (still don't leave them in the tank overnight through).
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Re: Decimated my Flytrap; Question about dried bugs and othe

Postby MrSpectrum » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:23 am

Sabotender wrote:What are your opinions on dried feeder insects compared to fresh?


Ah, the ubiquitous live vs.... not live. :roll:
Others have weighed in; I don't disagree with them.

Never seen dandilion except the stuff that grows wild, and everyone uses weed killer around here. No alfalfa or anything thats called 'greens' looked everwhere for mustard greens, turnip greens, etc to no avail.


Is there a Farmers'/Public/Regional Market within a reasonable distance? They're often (not always) the best, least expensive source for fresh produce of any kind (and often a lot more). In some places, they're also a social event. :)
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Re: Decimated my Flytrap; Question about dried bugs and othe

Postby Sabotender » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:50 pm

Sorry for late reply.

While I appreciate the recommendations, I am going to stay with my current source of protein of freeze dried soldier fly larvae, grasshoppers and crickets with regular dusting of vitamins and calcium powder. He receives a variety of safe fruits and vegetables daily. He is growing at an alarming rate, and has more than adequate lighting in his cage. There is no evidence that suggests that the diet I am feeding him is improper or unhealthy. I will continue to occasionally purchase small batches of live crickets will be fed over the course of two or three days. Never large batches because no matter what I do or condition I keep live bugs in, they die within a week and I end up wasting my money.

I do not want a cockroach of any sort in my house.

Here is a photo of Rusty and his habitat:

Image
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Re: Decimated my Flytrap; Question about dried bugs and othe

Postby claudiusx » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:19 pm

Completely your prerogative. As long as he's healthy that is all that matters. :)

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Re: Decimated my Flytrap; Question about dried bugs and othe

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:39 pm

MrSpectrum wrote:
Sabotender wrote:What are your opinions on dried feeder insects compared to fresh?


Ah, the ubiquitous live vs.... not live. :roll:
Others have weighed in; I don't disagree with them.

Never seen dandilion except the stuff that grows wild, and everyone uses weed killer around here. No alfalfa or anything thats called 'greens' looked everwhere for mustard greens, turnip greens, etc to no avail.


dandelion is incredibly easy to find along any country road or in any park, simply snag a few opened seed pods that are ready to let go the seeds (in the breeze) , a small pot full of soil and in a month or so you'll have several dandelion seedlings that can planted in a bigger pot or grower trough and you'll have dandelion leaves and flowers on hand forever.

Is there a Farmers'/Public/Regional Market within a reasonable distance? They're often (not always) the best, least expensive source for fresh produce of any kind (and often a lot more). In some places, they're also a social event. :)


Another good one and very to grow is nasturtiums , the flowers and leaves are great salad for dragons and people and again you don't much space to grow several plants and they do OK indoors.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
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Re: Decimated my Flytrap; Question about dried bugs and othe

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:53 pm

Sabotender wrote:Sorry for late reply.

While I appreciate the recommendations, I am going to stay with my current source of protein of freeze dried soldier fly larvae, grasshoppers and crickets with regular dusting of vitamins and calcium powder. He receives a variety of safe fruits and vegetables daily. He is growing at an alarming rate, and has more than adequate lighting in his cage. There is no evidence that suggests that the diet I am feeding him is improper or unhealthy. I will continue to occasionally purchase small batches of live crickets will be fed over the course of two or three days. Never large batches because no matter what I do or condition I keep live bugs in, they die within a week and I end up wasting my money.

<<< can you give us a rundown on how you care for your crickets ? this is likely your source of die offs.
And when they die , do the dead crickets turn red ? if they do , it's an indication that shop is buying deceased crickets from their bulk supplier ( do you know the brand name of the supplier your shop sources from ? ).
If they are dying off quickly more than likely it's a problem in the shop's cricket husbandry or they are arriving there deceased and already sick / dying.

My crickets arrive as 1/3 size or 2/3 size and live for near a month before they start dying of old age. I do find 4mm to 1/4 size crickets are harder to keep alive than the older / larger and tough as nails crickets.
Key is good hygene, and keeping them supplied with dry food and fresh greens and carrot chunks.
Also helps to avoid overcrowding them, they will start eating each other.

caresheet https://www.livefoods.com.au/crickets-caresheet , https://www.petwave.com.au/assets/files ... eet-V4.pdf

<<< I can relate to not wanting to deal with roaches , if you think crickets are fast , they have nothing on roaches , and are much easier to contain than roaches too.
I keep a couple of small breeding colonise of woodroaches , only because I use the weenie sized (baby) woodroaches as feeders for my delicate skinks , and my water skink likes the small to medium woodroaches occasionally , she prefers crickets .


I do not want a cockroach of any sort in my house.

<<< roaches are much easier to breed than crickets are , hence their attractiveness to some people as a cheap feeder insect .

Here is a photo of Rusty and his habitat:

Image
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
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Re: Decimated my Flytrap; Question about dried bugs and othe

Postby MrSpectrum » Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:46 am

kingofnobbys wrote:Another good one and very to grow is nasturtiums , the flowers and leaves are great salad for dragons and people and again you don't much space to grow several plants and they do OK indoors.


I did not know that; thanks for the 411. :)
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Re: Decimated my Flytrap; Question about dried bugs and othe

Postby MrSpectrum » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:14 am

Sabotender wrote:There is no evidence that suggests that the diet I am feeding him is improper or unhealthy.

That doesn't agree with my own research, but it is a Con-Sub. It's similar to the debate between humans eating canned, frozen/freeze-dried, and/or fresh fruits & vegetables; preserved is better than none, but fresh is considered better than preserved.

BDs (and many other reptiles) often don't show any signs of health issues until they crash and it's too late.

I don't mean to fear-monger here; (and this is in regard to general health of many/most reptiles). What I would like is for you to consult your veterinarian on this. The next time you see her/him for a checkup or test should be fine. Even a phone call or email.

I do not want a cockroach of any sort in my house.

I understand. I felt the same way until I got up the gumption to research it for myself. :study: Perhaps you have.

I don't know where you are geographically, but unless it's a place very similar to Dubias' natural habitat (Central/South America) there's virtually no chance of their breeding in your home--they require 90-95°F and 60% humidity to breed (don't take my word for it--please check it out). They cannot fly, cannot climb slick surfaces, and don't stink like crickets.

That said, I agree with Brandon that it's your prerogative.

Here is a photo of Rusty and his habitat:

Nice looking fellow; I prefer the "natural" look, and he seems to have it.
Best wishes & success. :)
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Re: Decimated my Flytrap; Question about dried bugs and othe

Postby SandP » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:55 am

Maybe I missed it but have you tried live black soldier fly larvae? It's my main staple, I also don't feel comfortable with bringing roaches in my house whether they can breed or not. Live BSFL are pretty hard to kill. I keep mine in the cup they arrive in and leave them at room temp on top of one of my beardies tanks. The only thing about them is if they're too warm they will turn into flies faster but the dragons both like eating them too.
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