How bad are coil UVB bulbs?

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How bad are coil UVB bulbs?

Postby LouieLizard » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:46 pm

I am posting this question after having a discussion with KarrieRee about my (apparently rare) good luck with coil UBV.
This would be the first --- what kind of coil is being used ? And I would take that question and ask on the board----------- all the people that I have spoke w / regarding coils have had repercussions and they werent good --- the brand and watt bulb--------------? Usually the health issues start by the time they are a year so I am shocked at this news--- and yes there could be damage that we cant see as well but please ask on the board and see what they say I am interested to know this too
Karrie
I have a three year old bearded dragon who has been kept using an Exo Terra UVB150 26W since I got him as a baby with no other UVB source except when I took him outside like three times ever for five minutes each. Apparently these bulbs do not emit the right kind of wavelengths and can cause eye problems. But my beardie has been perfectly healthy with no obvious health issues. sometimes in the summer his eyes get a little watery, but that is it. I would think that has more to do with shedding or something though as it doesn't happen often. I am planning on getting a reptisun 10.0 UVB though anyway as they are supposed to be better. Is it normal that he has remained healthy this long with a coil bulb? Is there any internal things a should be worried about? Is there any behavior that should change if I get a new bulb?
Any information is appreciated :D .
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Re: How bad are coil UVB bulbs?

Postby claudiusx » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:10 pm

How close is the coil to the basking area?

The eye issues are largely non existent anymore. There was a manufacturing problem in the beginning that caused lots of issues. However they do put off very glaring light which can be strenuous to their eyes. But it usually doesnt cause the problems we saw in the past.

Since this is such an interesting discussion, can you give us some details about your dragon and setup?

Is he a normal or a morph?
What's his daily diet look like? What was it like when he was growing?
Supplements and their schedule?
Distance the coil is from the basking area?
And lastly, temperature?

I'm prodding here seeing if some more info can cause some deeper thinking here :)

-Brandon
Follow along with all my beardies. Check out my thread here!: Claud's Crew
P.S. We have lots of pictures ;)
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Re: How bad are coil UVB bulbs?

Postby CooperDragon » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:19 am

The 26w version of the UVB150 is similar in output to a T8 tube when using a reflector. The beam isn't as wide (depending on the length of the tube) but the output strength is very similar. If it was sitting about 6-8'' above the main basking area then it was likely providing adequate UVB. It's the lower wattage (13w) versions that cause concern since they aren't strong enough to provide adequate UVB at a safe distance.
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Re: How bad are coil UVB bulbs?

Postby LouieLizard » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:32 am

CooperDragon wrote:The 26w version of the UVB150 is similar in output to a T8 tube when using a reflector. The beam isn't as wide (depending on the length of the tube) but the output strength is very similar. If it was sitting about 6-8'' above the main basking area then it was likely providing adequate UVB. It's the lower wattage (13w) versions that cause concern since they aren't strong enough to provide adequate UVB at a safe distance.

Thanks. That sounds about right to they way I had it set up except it was more in the middle of the enclosure and he basked on the side. Also you mentioned T8. Sometimes I see bulbs that say T8 HO or T5 HO, what does this mean?
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Re: How bad are coil UVB bulbs?

Postby claudiusx » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:36 am

Only the T5 bulb is the the HO version. The T8 bulb is the standard output.

T8 and T5 are sizes of the bulb, they represent what type of fixture the lamp needs.

-Brandon
Follow along with all my beardies. Check out my thread here!: Claud's Crew
P.S. We have lots of pictures ;)
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Re: How bad are coil UVB bulbs?

Postby AHBD » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:26 am

Some people do use the coil bulbs with no ill effects to their dragons. A very long time + successful breeder [ over 25 years ] who retired recently was A-1 reptiles and they used the coils for their baby bins. They had beautiful , healthy dragons.
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Re: How bad are coil UVB bulbs?

Postby Ellentomologist » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:31 pm

Hiya,

I used coil bulbs for a very long time and still have them on my temporary setup back "home" (I only recently graduated college and regularly spend the weekend at my folks place. Usually Guacamole travels with me, to a setup identical to his regular one except with a coil instead of tube UVB). My personal opinion is that they are unfairly vilified, but not ideal... A lot of aspects of animal care are.

Coil UVB bulbs themselves are not the devil. What really gets people in trouble is when they have multiple things sub-par - for instance if they have poor UVB, loose substrate, and are feeding too many insects or sub-optimal feeders. If your care is otherwise perfect, a "good" coil bulb - as Cooper Dragon mentioned - will probably suit your needs just fine. However, you will always make sure to keep an extra vigilant eye on your animal's health behavior because of the possibly-risky bulb, and any health problem you do run into you will have to consider being the fault of the bulb.

Ultimately, when you compare the costs and possible risks, it doesn't make sense not to get a appropriate tube bulb instead of a coil. They last longer, and the prices of a "good" coil or vapor bulb compares to a "good" tube are very similar. Tube bulb mounts are considerably more expensive, though, $40-60 as opposed to $13-25, at least where I live. When people say they have a coil bulb, I do strongly advise them to make the switch, but if they just bought a new coil bulb they might as well get their 4-6 months out of it and use that time to save up for proper UVB.

The exception to this, obviously, is if they have a sickly or rescued dragon. A sick animal can, potentially, be caused by sub-optimal UVB, or otherwise you don't want risk further complications with a sick animal by using sub-optimal UVB.

Does that make sense?

Hope this helps,
-Ellen

P.S.

Since Brandon was interested:

I kept Guacamole, my male Normal Morph under a coil UVB for the first 2 years-ish of his life. From the get go, he got salads daily in the morning that he largely ignored until he was with me for 4 months or so. As a youngling, he got insects 2-3 times daily, then once daily for longer than he should've... I only recently swapped to 2-3 times a week for insects. I do a 3:4:3 mix of all Rep-Cal supplements in the following order, Calcium W/ D3: Multivitamin : Calcium W/O D3 on all feeders and 1-2 salads a week. Coil was about 10-12 inches from the basking spot, above a wide (quarter inch) mesh. Temps were about 78-84 F ambient, 95-100 basking. I haven't noticed any major changes in Guac's behavior since swapping his lighting, except for the fact that he now hangs out further away from his basking spot (where there is UVB but little heat) than before, when his UVB and heat were localized to the same area.
About me: Lab Manager in CDB studying for graduate school. Keep many invertebrates, reptiles, and amphibians, but only one BD named Guacamole. HUGE DnD and tabletop RPG nerd. Sorry if I post the same info right after someone else does, I tend to open many tabs and not refresh.
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Re: How bad are coil UVB bulbs?

Postby LouieLizard » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:22 am

claudiusx wrote:Only the T5 bulb is the the HO version. The T8 bulb is the standard output.

T8 and T5 are sizes of the bulb, they represent what type of fixture the lamp needs.

-Brandon

Oh. I thought they just used inches for that.
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Re: How bad are coil UVB bulbs?

Postby LouieLizard » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:25 am

AHBD wrote:Some people do use the coil bulbs with no ill effects to their dragons. A very long time + successful breeder [ over 25 years ] who retired recently was A-1 reptiles and they used the coils for their baby bins. They had beautiful , healthy dragons.

Interesting. Kinda surprising too.
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Re: How bad are coil UVB bulbs?

Postby LouieLizard » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:30 am

Ellentomologist wrote:Hiya,

I used coil bulbs for a very long time and still have them on my temporary setup back "home" (I only recently graduated college and regularly spend the weekend at my folks place. Usually Guacamole travels with me, to a setup identical to his regular one except with a coil instead of tube UVB). My personal opinion is that they are unfairly vilified, but not ideal... A lot of aspects of animal care are.

Coil UVB bulbs themselves are not the devil. What really gets people in trouble is when they have multiple things sub-par - for instance if they have poor UVB, loose substrate, and are feeding too many insects or sub-optimal feeders. If your care is otherwise perfect, a "good" coil bulb - as Cooper Dragon mentioned - will probably suit your needs just fine. However, you will always make sure to keep an extra vigilant eye on your animal's health behavior because of the possibly-risky bulb, and any health problem you do run into you will have to consider being the fault of the bulb.

Ultimately, when you compare the costs and possible risks, it doesn't make sense not to get a appropriate tube bulb instead of a coil. They last longer, and the prices of a "good" coil or vapor bulb compares to a "good" tube are very similar. Tube bulb mounts are considerably more expensive, though, $40-60 as opposed to $13-25, at least where I live. When people say they have a coil bulb, I do strongly advise them to make the switch, but if they just bought a new coil bulb they might as well get their 4-6 months out of it and use that time to save up for proper UVB.

The exception to this, obviously, is if they have a sickly or rescued dragon. A sick animal can, potentially, be caused by sub-optimal UVB, or otherwise you don't want risk further complications with a sick animal by using sub-optimal UVB.

Does that make sense?

Hope this helps,
-Ellen

P.S.

Since Brandon was interested:

I kept Guacamole, my male Normal Morph under a coil UVB for the first 2 years-ish of his life. From the get go, he got salads daily in the morning that he largely ignored until he was with me for 4 months or so. As a youngling, he got insects 2-3 times daily, then once daily for longer than he should've... I only recently swapped to 2-3 times a week for insects. I do a 3:4:3 mix of all Rep-Cal supplements in the following order, Calcium W/ D3: Multivitamin : Calcium W/O D3 on all feeders and 1-2 salads a week. Coil was about 10-12 inches from the basking spot, above a wide (quarter inch) mesh. Temps were about 78-84 F ambient, 95-100 basking. I haven't noticed any major changes in Guac's behavior since swapping his lighting, except for the fact that he now hangs out further away from his basking spot (where there is UVB but little heat) than before, when his UVB and heat were localized to the same area.

Thanks! That was very helpful. Your signature(I guess that what those are called) says Guac likes blueberries and supers. Those are Louie's favorite also :lol: .
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Re: How bad are coil UVB bulbs?

Postby kingofnobbys » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:33 am

I have been using 26W UVB200 compacts in nano-hoods (horizonal alignment) for several years, and they work very nicely in this in my rearing tubs and my even in my old 4ft x 2ft x 1.5ft H timber h/made viv.

The nano reflector makes the coverage very good for about 1/2 the area of the big viv and covers most the 120L rearing tubs ( I position them near one end of the rearing tub so there is a nice UV gradient ).

Putting these compacts in domes results in very much smaller area where the UV is at good level.

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W:520 H:440 L:750
==> L = 30" , H = 17.5"
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : new rescues Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, juvenile Cheakie (M) 21Oct19
Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
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Re: How bad are coil UVB bulbs?

Postby kingofnobbys » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:41 am

LouieLizard wrote:
claudiusx wrote:Only the T5 bulb is the the HO version. The T8 bulb is the standard output.

T8 and T5 are sizes of the bulb, they represent what type of fixture the lamp needs.

-Brandon

Oh. I thought they just used inches for that.


T8 means diameter is 1", T5 means diameter is 5/8".
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : new rescues Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, juvenile Cheakie (M) 21Oct19
Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
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Re: How bad are coil UVB bulbs?

Postby LouieLizard » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:46 am

claudiusx wrote:How close is the coil to the basking area?

The eye issues are largely non existent anymore. There was a manufacturing problem in the beginning that caused lots of issues. However they do put off very glaring light which can be strenuous to their eyes. But it usually doesnt cause the problems we saw in the past.

Since this is such an interesting discussion, can you give us some details about your dragon and setup?

Is he a normal or a morph?
What's his daily diet look like? What was it like when he was growing?
Supplements and their schedule?
Distance the coil is from the basking area?
And lastly, temperature?

I'm prodding here seeing if some more info can cause some deeper thinking here :)

-Brandon

His bulb was in the center of his enclosure and his basking spot was on the side.
He is a normal
When he was a baby he ate roaches and crickets daily. Usually dusted with calcium. I thought a gave him vitamins as a baby but I may not have as I cant remember ever actually doing it. Most of his adult life he ate insects about once to twice a week (dusted) and greens maybe two to three times a week(yes he was underfed and overweight :dontknow:).
The coil has on the hardware-cloth lid and he basked maybe 6-8 inches below and to the side of it.
As I don't have AC In my house its sometimes hare to give constant temps. Summer temps are often 90's on the warm side and mid 80's on the cool side. Basking temp like 100-110. Night temps high 70's. Winter temps are generally more like 80's on the warm side and mid 70's on the cool side. night temps don't go below 60's because I have a CHE. Used to use a Exo Terra Night Heat Lamp 50W.
There's a lot of things I did wrong with his set-up but I'm trying.
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Re: How bad are coil UVB bulbs?

Postby LouieLizard » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:54 pm

kingofnobbys wrote:
LouieLizard wrote:
claudiusx wrote:Only the T5 bulb is the the HO version. The T8 bulb is the standard output.

T8 and T5 are sizes of the bulb, they represent what type of fixture the lamp needs.

-Brandon

Oh. I thought they just used inches for that.


T8 means diameter is 1", T5 means diameter is 5/8".

Ok, thanks!
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