HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

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Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby maskedup » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:49 pm

ohitslexluthor wrote:Hopefully Amazon can ship it to your location.
Greens are very important that young as well.. Feed that to him everyday along w/ feeders. I would try to get some Kale (or Collard Greens if no Kale is available) make sure stems are out because they are hard to digest. They're very easy to get at grocery stores. Judging from that pic from before he kinda looks under-weight to me in my opinion.

I really do agree w/ the others and think this might be a lighting problem.
I would do some research into that and see if you can get rid of those coil-type lights. Tube lights are better.
When being that young; Lighting is the key but too much lighting can over-heat him.

Do you have a humidity reader as well? How is it in his enclosure?


Did you see the youtube video link? I do not think he looks anywhere near underweight. Maybe the tank picture makes him looks skinny because his sides are darker. The lighting should not be an issue, I have even numerous people telling me that MBD doesnt even set in that early. And this happens literally overnight. Lighting issue is never overnight, it's a gradual deterioration. And my driftwood is about 6inches from the bulb which he always basks in. I know there's a lot of tube vs coil debate going on. But my dragon roams around only during feeding, otherwise will be at the basking area. There is a humidity meter in the picture. I have stated the enclosure readings in my post i.e. 50%

Nonetheless, I'm planning to get a better UVB to see if there is a difference in response.

AHBD wrote:Poor little dude, it's either one of or a combo of the problems mentioned. The uvb is too far away to benefit him unless he's constantly perched up high. Try to get an Arcadia D3 12-14 % bulb ASAP. Take him outside to sit in grass with you, a big dose of sunshine might help but keep him off concrete /asphalt that would cook him. Grassy area only. He may be developing ADV and/or it may be his genetics.. The Witblits/zero type dragons were the newest designer morph and some had lots of health problems in the beginning and are now bred by some people to make quick money, so they can have problems by being inbred.


My boy is always perched up high, he spends all day basking and only comes down when i feed it. His basking is 6inches from the bulb. And i always make sure he gets to 40degC after feeding to aid in digestion. He has been getting UVB light at least 14-16hrs a day. This is also coupled with D3 supplementation with his feeders. I'll look for a better UVB today and hope that helps.

I have been searching online, and have not found anybody posting symptoms about front hands being immobile. Usually its swollen eyes, back legs immobile, etc. Can anyone identify why front legs could possibly be immobile? Seems like a definitive symptom but I can't find what.
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Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby maskedup » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:01 pm

Drache613 wrote:Hello,

How is your dragon doing today, any improvements at all?
I hope that he starts feeling better. I hope you are able to get another UVB light for him, too.
I think that will help him quite a bit. You could take him out in the sun but have him sit on you
for a little while to get some good light. Be watchful of overhead predators, too.

Tracie


He is still unable to eat. I have tried wriggling some feeders but he seems uninterested. I tried massaging its belly, just in case it might help with impaction or something. I noticed when i rubbed his belly, his arms became less stiff and relaxed and able to stretch out. So I'm not sure if this stiffness is voluntary or reflex.

Now he lays on the floor and props his head against a stone to lift his head up.

Although i highly doubt it's the lighting, I am planning to get a good UVB cos i really dont know what else to do now. Because he is not eating, what other ways can i ensure that he is getting the sustenance he needs?
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Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby claudiusx » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:03 pm

Youd be surprised how big an impact proper lighting can have. I completely forgot that calcium deficiencies can cause neurological issues like that.
So it's good that you will be upgrading. At the least, upgrading wont cause any harm.

I still think it could be caused by poor breeding practices, as I'd imagine is prevalent in your country since they are illegal as you say. But, providing the best husbandry you can will help despite any of the theories we have. Good luck!

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Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby maskedup » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:38 pm

claudiusx wrote:Youd be surprised how big an impact proper lighting can have. I completely forgot that calcium deficiencies can cause neurological issues like that.
So it's good that you will be upgrading. At the least, upgrading wont cause any harm.

I still think it could be caused by poor breeding practices, as I'd imagine is prevalent in your country since they are illegal as you say. But, providing the best husbandry you can will help despite any of the theories we have. Good luck!

-Brandon


Thanks bud.
I'll get my hands on a T5 Reptisun 10.0 and hope this makes some difference.
But you might be right on the breeding.
I had another friend who got a zero from the same person and presumably from the same clutch cos we had it at the same time, and the zero had really bad birth defects. curved spine and tail. I asked around for opinions and they said it's likely they were bred with zero x zero parents which resulted in bad genetics. This is not local breeder by the way. So I have no information on details.
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Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby claudiusx » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:41 pm

maskedup wrote:
Thanks bud.
I'll get my hands on a T5 Reptisun 10.0 and hope this makes some difference.
But you might be right on the breeding.
I had another friend who got a zero from the same person and presumably from the same clutch cos we had it at the same time, and the zero had really bad birth defects. curved spine and tail. I asked around for opinions and they said it's likely they were bred with zero x zero parents which resulted in bad genetics. This is not local breeder by the way. So I have no information on details.

Ah, that's too bad. Most likely inbreeding too as i'm sure the population is small in your area. It's a shame that not all breeders have the best interests of their animals at heart. But either way, hopefully some minor tweaks to your husbandry is all thats needs! That's what we are hoping for at least! :D

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Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby Drache613 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:06 pm

Hello,

Definitely try getting a better UVB, that might really make a big difference.
That's too bad though, inbreeding is devastating to the species, I agree. The neurological
effects are not good.
How is he doing today?

Tracie
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Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby AHBD » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:24 am

Sad to say but I mentioned it earlier in the thread, someone probably inbreeding . Your friend's beardie is also crippled. Your dragon can still lead a decent life even without full recovery, I've seen a dragon live 7 years with very little mobility, had a great appetite and didn't know anything was wrong with him. He would sculled around the tank and was alert most of the time.
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Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby maskedup » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:42 am

Drache613 wrote:Hello,

Definitely try getting a better UVB, that might really make a big difference.
That's too bad though, inbreeding is devastating to the species, I agree. The neurological
effects are not good.
How is he doing today?

Tracie


There wasn't any reptisun in the store i got a exoterra uvb200 bulb 13w and place it 5inches from him. that would have to do for now. I did give him a warm bath and massage its belly. i read somewhere online that front leg not moving may be due to impaction on the upper digestive tract? i'm not sure, i'm just doing what ever i can to see if it works.

Good news is, his right arm does seem to be able to move a bit. but i still can't get him to eat. so that is a challenge. :(
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Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby CooperDragon » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:44 am

Is the weather warm where you are? If it is, then perhaps you can bring him outside to sit on your lap and bask in some natural sunlight for a while each day.

Have you tried offering something a little sweet to try and get him to eat? Maybe some sweet potato baby food or some cooked sweet potato rolled up into little worm shapes would get his interest.
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Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby maskedup » Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:04 pm

CooperDragon wrote:Is the weather warm where you are? If it is, then perhaps you can bring him outside to sit on your lap and bask in some natural sunlight for a while each day.

Have you tried offering something a little sweet to try and get him to eat? Maybe some sweet potato baby food or some cooked sweet potato rolled up into little worm shapes would get his interest.


The weather here is warm buy humid, however, because it's not legal here, it is not very convenient to bring out.

I saw a website that says it is likely MBD or upper digestive tract impaction, so i tried letting it lick some olive oil to lubricate the tract like the site mentioned, not sure if it works.

I will try to give it diluted honey when i get home from work. I have to try squeezing its jaw a little to encourage it to open its mouth.
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Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby Drache613 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:29 pm

Hello,

Poor guy, maybe he will improve some for you soon.
If there is any type of impaction, olive or coconut oil really help out. You can mix that with the
pumpkin or sugar free appelesauce daily to try & help him out. Letting him swim & move around
in the water can help too, just don't leave him unattended. They can drown easily even in the
shallow water.

Let us know how he is doing.
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Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby maskedup » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:16 am

Hi guys!

Thank you for all your advice!
I finally found a reliable vet here that handles exotics and had an appointment just now.

Apparently there was stuck shed at the anus and was preventing it from pooping.
The vet removed the stuck shed and he pooped it all out, it was quite a bit.
The vet then did an xray, stool sample test and blood test.

Results:
Might have traces of parasites, not serious but she gave an anti-parasitic anyways (stood sample)
Might be anaemic (blood sample)
No obvious signs of MBD (xray)
The eyes are still generally closed, the vet couldnt force it open and pain killers wasnt an option due to the state of weakness my dragon is in.

Now i made a new puree because my dragon is still weak.
Apple puree, olive oil, protein from cat food, calcium, multi vitamins - in a conconction
Now my dragon is really responding well and eating drastically well as compared to before the vet visit.
Still need care taking but it is really hopeful and i am in total relief!

I also have to do some upgrades to my tank, dont really wanna deal with anything like this in the near future.
I'll plan to revisit the vet in a few weeks time.

Thank you so much guys for all your advice and concern, you guys rock!
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Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby CooperDragon » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:07 pm

I'm sure he feels much better now having that shed out of the way! I'm glad to hear he is eating some of the food you've put together. I hope he feels better soon. Please keep us posted on his progress =)
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Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby AHBD » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:44 pm

Good to hear that he's still hanging in there ! The pooing at the vet's would have just been from stress, that's very common. There is no such thing as shed preventing a poo. :)
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Re: HELP, BEARD DRAGON NOT MOVING:(

Postby claudiusx » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:09 pm

AHBD wrote:Good to hear that he's still hanging in there ! The pooing at the vet's would have just been from stress, that's very common. There is no such thing as shed preventing a poo. :)

Yeah I was questioning that too. Did the vet actually remove something?

What did he prescribe for the parasites? Most dragons have parasites but they dont need to be treated unless the counts get higher. Times of stress can cause the counts to rise a little bit too.

I'm glad hes doing better though!

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