Refusing to eat for several months

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Refusing to eat for several months

Postby Beardiealice » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:40 pm

My Beardie Alice has a had a very rough year. She nearly died twice, and on the second time I brought her to the vet because her arm wasn’t working. The vet said she was severely dehydrated and malnourished and had super bad MBD. Her bones were basically mush so she was out on pain meds, two baths a day, Oxbow Carnivore Care, and everything she could climb on was taken out of her cage. She started to perk up and became her normal naughty self again. Her arm is back and she is no longer limping. However, she’s started to take a nosedive. I tried to ween her off of the Carnivore care (with vet permission) but she would not take normal food. She had gained about 100 grams so I tried the “starve” method. Still nothing. It’s been about 3 months and she will not eat more than a slice of collard and squash/whatever I put in there including bugs once every other day. She went without a bowel movement for about 3 weeks with baths. I don’t know what’s going on. The vet said she should not be depending on the Carnivore care. She’s starting hiding for the first time in her life. Is this going to be her for the rest of her life? Should I order Critical care (oxbows for herbivores) and alternate it with Carnivore care? I don’t want to bring her back to the vet because the did a full exam last time and didn’t see anything else wrong. Even if they did, I am only willing to put her on so many medications and absolutely no surgery. Ahhh what do I do??
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Re: Refusing to eat for several months

Postby KarrieRee » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:45 pm

What kind of lighting do you have in your tank? And what was the cause of almost dying? Have you had her since she was a baby? Post pics of the tank and lighting please
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Re: Refusing to eat for several months

Postby Beardiealice » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:26 pm

I’m not quite sure what it was the first time (probably malnutrition) but she perked up when I gave her Reptaboost. She was in that state because I thought she was in brumation because it was that time of year and she would just sleep all day for weeks. The second time it was from dehydration, malnutrition, and MBD. I only realized the first time that she was dying because she was unresponsive to being put in a bath and being tilted backwards. She got a little better after the Reptaboost, but then I noticed that her arm was super swollen. She was “fine”, and then the next day she would only respond when I put her on her back and it was only a gentle twitching movement. I rushed her to the emergency vet. I should have brought her sooner, but my mom said that I should wait and see how she does (little did I know my mom hates bringing animals to the vet, even our dog unless it’s for vaccs, nails, or his annual exam).

She has a reptisun 10.0 22” and a basking bulb (regular bulb, not one of the new coiled ones). I have had her for 2 years. Her story is on this post: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=248814

I used to have her UVB about 20” away, but I have now moved it closer so that it is in the correct range.

Her basking spot is 98-99 degrees and her cool side is around 75-80 degrees Fahrenheit.
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Re: Refusing to eat for several months

Postby Beardiealice » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:29 pm

[Click image to enlarge]


Also, that thermometer in the tank isn’t the one I use anymore. I got a temperature gun as soon as she got home from the vet.
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Re: Refusing to eat for several months

Postby KarrieRee » Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:43 pm

Are you sure she is female? Has she laid eggs before? I am gonna say probably not---- what are you feeding her? Here is a site for nutrition http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html--- Her tank could use some sprucing up -- sorry! But can she get into that box looking thing ? I would get rid of that and replace w/ a hubba hut or a cave/ platform - and I would get rid of the brick too --- you can shop on line or in store if you have one at Petsmart - they have nice decor there -- what size tank do you have her in? I would suggest upgrading to a larger one like 75-120 gallon w/ doors that open in the front- did the do a fecal at the vet to see if she had parasites / worms? And babies do not brumate by the way --- mine was around 9-10 months old and he went into a semi brumation- he did a lot of sleeping but he never stop eating- and he would bask --- but he did sleep alot! She needs to be able to get away from the UVB if she wants too- the light looks like it covers most of that tank --- she might be getting too much - I dont know --- some others on here are going to haft to weigh in on this
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Re: Refusing to eat for several months

Postby Beardiealice » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:07 pm

Yeah, her tank is pretty ugly right now but it’s not her normal decor. I got her a $45 tree/hide but she can’t have it in with her right now because she likes to climb it and she half slides half falls to get off which is too dangerous right now. She also has a bigger brick that goes under the one she has now to get her closer to the basking bulb, and a bridge and neat food dish. But again, other than her dish, she can’t have that stuff because she will break if she falls off. I don’t want to waste money on new things because this is only a temporary setup. I would rather spend my money on things like hornworms. Also, why should she not be on brick? It helps her grind down her nails so they’re not so sharp. She can climb inside the box easily. She has a log tunnel but she decided to eat a piece of bark off of it last year and I don’t need her getting a compaction so it’s not going in her tank again. I’m more concerned about her health than the aesthetic of her temporary living conditions.

She is actually 4 years old. She’s so small because of her past (she’s a rescue). She is in a 65 gallon tank even though she is only about 14” long.

I was told she was a girl but I have yet to sex her. I don’t see the point really since it doesn’t change her care (other than laying eggs, but she hasn’t done that - most likely due to her poor health).

Her UVB is 22” and her tank is 36” long. She can always go in her hide.

At the moment she is getting Carnivore Care from Oxbow. Her normal diet is collard greens (no mustard because she hates it), different squashes, crickets, Calci worms, hornworms, other veggies like carrot and bell pepper and the occasional strawberry or raspberry.
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Re: Refusing to eat for several months

Postby KarrieRee » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:43 pm

65 gallon is good - you can get some slated ceramic tile from Home Depot for her tank -- that would keep her nails down but w/ her condition I am wondering if that would not be good - you can also get some textured non adhesive shelf liner from Home Depot - they are both cheap and easy to clean w/ vinegar/ water in a spray bottle 50/50-- the shelf liner would probably be softer --- and the bugs cant get under it-----you can also put a soft blanket like fleece in her hide for her to sleep on--- they like soft ---you might want to try some turnip greens for her and some green beans---
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Re: Refusing to eat for several months

Postby Beardiealice » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:48 pm

Does the hardness effect her condition? I’ve thought about putting like an old T-shirt in there but she has a habit of pooping anywhere in her tank and then dragging it EVERYWHERE.

I don’t know...I haven’t seen anything on saying you shouldn’t have your Beardie on something hard...

Also, she refused to eat hornworms (her favorite thing in the entire world) so I seriously doubt she would eat turnip greens or beans. Every time I feed her, I put her so that her face is right by her food so that she knows it’s there, but she usually just climbs into her bowl for a nap.
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Re: Refusing to eat for several months

Postby KarrieRee » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:57 pm

Oh my goodness!!! The only thing that I can think of is she might have parasites --- it does effect their eating - I would call your vet ask them if you can drop off a fecal sample for parasites and go from there--- my reptile vet let me do that it was $30 --- I then took him in for a check up--- alot of people on the forum have ceramic tile- that is what is in my tank --- but I also have a lot of decor that he climbs on --- and a blanket in his cave/ platform
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Re: Refusing to eat for several months

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:06 pm

Beardiealice wrote:I’m not quite sure what it was the first time (probably malnutrition) but she perked up when I gave her Reptaboost. She was in that state because I thought she was in brumation because it was that time of year and she would just sleep all day for weeks. The second time it was from dehydration, malnutrition, and MBD. I only realized the first time that she was dying because she was unresponsive to being put in a bath and being tilted backwards. She got a little better after the Reptaboost, but then I noticed that her arm was super swollen. She was “fine”, and then the next day she would only respond when I put her on her back and it was only a gentle twitching movement. I rushed her to the emergency vet. I should have brought her sooner, but my mom said that I should wait and see how she does (little did I know my mom hates bringing animals to the vet, even our dog unless it’s for vaccs, nails, or his annual exam).

She has a reptisun 10.0 22” and a basking bulb (regular bulb, not one of the new coiled ones). I have had her for 2 years. Her story is on this post: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=248814

<<< is that the fat T8 tube or a skinny T5HO tube ?

Just want to help you check this is set up optimally for her .

<<< how far from the basking spot ?


I used to have her UVB about 20” away, but I have now moved it closer so that it is in the correct range.

Her basking spot is 98-99 degrees and her cool side is around 75-80 degrees Fahrenheit.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: Refusing to eat for several months

Postby Beardiealice » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:15 pm

KarrieRee wrote:Oh my goodness!!! The only thing that I can think of is she might have parasites --- it does effect their eating - I would call your vet ask them if you can drop off a fecal sample for parasites and go from there--- my reptile vet let me do that it was $30 --- I then took him in for a check up--- alot of people on the forum have ceramic tile- that is what is in my tank --- but I also have a lot of decor that he climbs on --- and a blanket in his cave/ platform
Karrie


Thank you. I’ll call the vet tomorrow and see what she thinks about this idea :)
Andrew
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Re: Refusing to eat for several months

Postby Beardiealice » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:15 pm

kingofnobbys wrote:
Beardiealice wrote:I’m not quite sure what it was the first time (probably malnutrition) but she perked up when I gave her Reptaboost. She was in that state because I thought she was in brumation because it was that time of year and she would just sleep all day for weeks. The second time it was from dehydration, malnutrition, and MBD. I only realized the first time that she was dying because she was unresponsive to being put in a bath and being tilted backwards. She got a little better after the Reptaboost, but then I noticed that her arm was super swollen. She was “fine”, and then the next day she would only respond when I put her on her back and it was only a gentle twitching movement. I rushed her to the emergency vet. I should have brought her sooner, but my mom said that I should wait and see how she does (little did I know my mom hates bringing animals to the vet, even our dog unless it’s for vaccs, nails, or his annual exam).

She has a reptisun 10.0 22” and a basking bulb (regular bulb, not one of the new coiled ones). I have had her for 2 years. Her story is on this post: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=248814

<<< is that the fat T8 tube or a skinny T5HO tube ?

Just want to help you check this is set up optimally for her .

<<< how far from the basking spot ?


I used to have her UVB about 20” away, but I have now moved it closer so that it is in the correct range.

Her basking spot is 98-99 degrees and her cool side is around 75-80 degrees Fahrenheit.


She has the t8, and it is about 9 inches from her basking spot.
Andrew
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Re: Refusing to eat for several months

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:23 pm

Beardiealice wrote:
kingofnobbys wrote:
Beardiealice wrote:I’m not quite sure what it was the first time (probably malnutrition) but she perked up when I gave her Reptaboost. She was in that state because I thought she was in brumation because it was that time of year and she would just sleep all day for weeks. The second time it was from dehydration, malnutrition, and MBD. I only realized the first time that she was dying because she was unresponsive to being put in a bath and being tilted backwards. She got a little better after the Reptaboost, but then I noticed that her arm was super swollen. She was “fine”, and then the next day she would only respond when I put her on her back and it was only a gentle twitching movement. I rushed her to the emergency vet. I should have brought her sooner, but my mom said that I should wait and see how she does (little did I know my mom hates bringing animals to the vet, even our dog unless it’s for vaccs, nails, or his annual exam).

She has a reptisun 10.0 22” and a basking bulb (regular bulb, not one of the new coiled ones). I have had her for 2 years. Her story is on this post: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=248814

<<< is that the fat T8 tube or a skinny T5HO tube ?

Just want to help you check this is set up optimally for her .

<<< how far from the basking spot ?


I used to have her UVB about 20” away, but I have now moved it closer so that it is in the correct range.

Her basking spot is 98-99 degrees and her cool side is around 75-80 degrees Fahrenheit.


She has the t8, and it is about 9 inches from her basking spot.


The t8 10% UVB tube in a reflector hood 9" from the basking spot is barely adequate wrt UVA flux & UVB flux at 100 microW UVB / sq.cm and 0.5 W UVA / sq.cm, and will be contributing to her lack of appetite.

Ideal distance for your setup is 14cm from the tube to the basking spot, this will give good levels of UVA flux and UVB flux , at 200 microW UVB / sq.cm and 1 W UVA / sq.cm.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: Refusing to eat for several months

Postby Beardiealice » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:49 pm

[Click image to enlarge]


These are the directions for her UVB. I don’t really understand what your saying...are you sure? By using these instructions, her light could technically be moved further away...plus, if I put it 14 cm away, she would be touching the bulb when she sits up to bask.
Andrew
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Re: Refusing to eat for several months

Postby claudiusx » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:05 pm

Your uvb is fine don't worry about it.
After awhile of being fed like that, they can become lazy and only want to be fed that way.

So it sounds like shes doing just fine besides the eating correct? Acting generally healthy besides the want to hide now?

One trick I did with one of my girls after a few weeks of critical care was I made it up a bit thicker and put it on a worm. Once she got the taste of the cc on the worm, I was slowly able to transition her back over to standard foods. And from there she started eating more and more on her own.

It's really late for me right now, but I can offer you more advice in the morning. I just mainly wanted to post to let you know your uvb is fine and you don't need to do anything in regards to that. Besides potentially replace the bulb if it's over 6 months old.

-Brandon
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