Enclosure Temps - Avoiding Basking Spot

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Enclosure Temps - Avoiding Basking Spot

Postby TallyReed » Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:31 pm

Hi all,

Our new 3-month old beardie arrived this past Wednesday and seems to be settling in. He is alert, active and has taken both greens and feeders (6 - 14 crickets per feeding, a few small superworms and a couple of silkworms).

The one thing that has me a bit perplexed is that, based upon most of the reading I have done, I expected him to use the 110 degree basking spot, but he has his favourite spot where he spends most of his time, even after eating, which is at 97 degrees (circled in green).

I have taken temps across the enclosure and would appreciate some input as to whether I should change things up. I would like to think that he will pick the temperatures which work for him but perhaps I need to lower the basking spot temp?
[Click image to enlarge]
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Re: Enclosure Temps - Avoiding Basking Spot

Postby KarrieRee » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:08 pm

The area marked 103 looks to close to the basking spot --- how are you taking the temps? Infrared heat gun is best for most accurate temps--- the UVB is it in the tank or on top of the screen its hard for me to tell -- what kind of UVB ? Brand and bulb?
Karrie
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Re: Enclosure Temps - Avoiding Basking Spot

Postby TallyReed » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:40 pm

The enclosure is 48 x 24 x 24 deep and the basking lamp is in the centre of the enclosure (front to back) - the log with the 103 is against the back wall, well offset from the basking lamp. The Y-shaped log with the 110 is directly under the lamp.

I have a Herpstat 4 with temp probes and I also have a PE2 infrared temp gun, which I used to take the noted temps.

I have an 36" fixture with an Arcadia 14% bulb mounted inside the tank, starting against the right wall, approximately 2" out from the back wall. There is approximately 15.5" from the bulb to the ledge on along the back wall at the far right, although the log along the back ledge does bring the level up to about 12" from the tube at the highest point.

My dragon spends most of his time roughly in the centre third of the tank at various levels, front to back, although he does spend time toward the front of the tank on the upper right ledge as well. Just doesn't park in the basking spot. The basking spot measures 109 - 110 with both the probe and the temp gun.
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Re: Enclosure Temps - Avoiding Basking Spot

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:31 am

TallyReed wrote:Hi all,

Our new 3-month old beardie arrived this past Wednesday and seems to be settling in. He is alert, active and has taken both greens and feeders (6 - 14 crickets per feeding, a few small superworms and a couple of silkworms).

<<< set the superworms aside , he's is too young and undeveloped internally to handle superworms and they not a very good feeder insect.
They will grow bigger over the next few months and he might be big enough then to handle them.


The one thing that has me a bit perplexed is that, based upon most of the reading I have done, I expected him to use the 110 degree basking spot, but he has his favourite spot where he spends most of his time, even after eating, which is at 97 degrees (circled in green).

I have taken temps across the enclosure and would appreciate some input as to whether I should change things up. I would like to think that he will pick the temperatures which work for him but perhaps I need to lower the basking spot temp?
[Click image to enlarge]


The area at 110 F is way too hot. No area he has access to HOTTER than 100 F.
See this for why : viewtopic.php?f=5&t=233516 , this will explain why he is going to a certain area (temperature) in his tank by preference and not using the current basking spot.
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : new rescues Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, juvenile Cheakie (M) 21Oct19
Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
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Re: Enclosure Temps - Avoiding Basking Spot

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:48 am

TallyReed wrote:The enclosure is 48 x 24 x 24 deep and the basking lamp is in the centre of the enclosure (front to back) - the log with the 103 is against the back wall, well offset from the basking lamp. The Y-shaped log with the 110 is directly under the lamp.

I have a Herpstat 4 with temp probes and I also have a PE2 infrared temp gun, which I used to take the noted temps.
PE2 infrared temp gun has a very wide spot ratio of 6:1 , but at least it has an adjustable emissivity.
What setting are you using for the emissivity when measuring the surface temperatures ?


I have an 36" fixture with an Arcadia 14% bulb mounted inside the tank,
<< I believe these are only in T5HO version
<< in a reflector hood ?
<< on top a mesh lid ?

starting against the right wall, approximately 2" out from the back wall. There is approximately 15.5" from the bulb to the ledge on along the back wall at the far right, although the log along the back ledge does bring the level up to about 12" from the tube at the highest point.

My dragon spends most of his time roughly in the centre third of the tank at various levels, front to back, although he does spend time toward the front of the tank on the upper right ledge as well. Just doesn't park in the basking spot. The basking spot measures 109 - 110 with both the probe and the temp gun.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : new rescues Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, juvenile Cheakie (M) 21Oct19
Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
kingofnobbys
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Re: Enclosure Temps - Avoiding Basking Spot

Postby TallyReed » Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:43 am

First and foremost, I very much appreciate the time that you put into your response and the evidence-based approach.

I did a lot of reading while setting up the enclosure and, based upon the care sheets I read, information from breeders and widely represented opinion, I thought I was where I needed to be (sigh)...

kingofnobbys wrote:
<<< set the superworms aside , he's is too young and undeveloped internally to handle superworms and they not a very good feeder insect.
They will grow bigger over the next few months and he might be big enough then to handle them.


Will do. The breeder advised that she feeds crickets and small superworms to her babies and, given the dearth of options here in Canada, especially in my neck of the woods (no Dubia Roaches, no ready access to BSFL, small silkworms), I deferred to the practice of the breeder. I just want to do this correctly so will eliminate the supers for the time being.

kingofnobbys wrote:The area at 110 F is way too hot. No area he has access to HOTTER than 100 F.
See this for why : viewtopic.php?f=5&t=233516 , this will explain why he is going to a certain area (temperature) in his tank by preference and not using the current basking spot.


Great reference, thank you - I will adjust accordingly. I started off with a Exo-Terra 150 daylight bulb but it was way too warm so I moved to a 100 - I will pick up a 75 and see where that puts the temps.
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Re: Enclosure Temps - Avoiding Basking Spot

Postby TallyReed » Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:54 am

kingofnobbys wrote:
PE2 infrared temp gun has a very wide spot ratio of 6:1 , but at least it has an adjustable emissivity.
What setting are you using for the emissivity when measuring the surface temperatures ?


I read some emissivity tables and set the gun to the closest wood I could find to Ash (I believe the main basking log is green ash), which was oak. When I measured the spot right beside the Herpstat temperature probe both the probe and PE2 were within a 1/2 to 1 degree of one another.

<< I believe these are only in T5HO version
<< in a reflector hood ?
<< on top a mesh lid ?



Yes, the lamp is a T5HO and the fixture does indeed have a reflector. There is no mesh as the fixture is mounted inside the tank.
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Re: Enclosure Temps - Avoiding Basking Spot

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:00 am

TallyReed wrote:First and foremost, I very much appreciate the time that you put into your response and the evidence-based approach.

I did a lot of reading while setting up the enclosure and, based upon the care sheets I read, information from breeders and widely represented opinion, I thought I was where I needed to be (sigh)...

kingofnobbys wrote:
<<< set the superworms aside , he's is too young and undeveloped internally to handle superworms and they not a very good feeder insect.
They will grow bigger over the next few months and he might be big enough then to handle them.


Will do. The breeder advised that she feeds crickets and small superworms to her babies and, given the dearth of options here in Canada, especially in my neck of the woods (no Dubia Roaches, no ready access to BSFL, small silkworms), I deferred to the practice of the breeder. I just want to do this correctly so will eliminate the supers for the time being.

kingofnobbys wrote:The area at 110 F is way too hot. No area he has access to HOTTER than 100 F.
See this for why : viewtopic.php?f=5&t=233516 , this will explain why he is going to a certain area (temperature) in his tank by preference and not using the current basking spot.


Great reference, thank you - I will adjust accordingly. I started off with a Exo-Terra 150 daylight bulb but it was way too warm so I moved to a 100 - I will pick up a 75 and see where that puts the temps.


Will be a matter of trial and error , of cause since you have a good dimming thermostat , this will make the process faster, simply dial the correct temperature aim and the control band and let the thermostat do it's thing.
There will be some INITIAL overshoot and oscillation , but this should settle to a cycle inside the control band .
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : new rescues Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, juvenile Cheakie (M) 21Oct19
Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
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Re: Enclosure Temps - Avoiding Basking Spot

Postby TallyReed » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:43 am

And, just like that, I changed out the bulb, got the basking spot to 100 +/- 1 degree and he is now under the lamp.

I must say that this forum has been invaluable and I am truly appreciative of the depth of knowledge that is freely offered.

James.
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