Need to ask a Vet please regarding Antibiotics

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Need to ask a Vet please regarding Antibiotics

Postby MorganaTheSatyr » Sun May 26, 2019 11:06 pm

Hiya!

I took my (nearly 2 year old) dragon to a different vet for a check up (she had some spots on her tummy scales and like open scars on her wrists). The doc said that it could be a bacterial infection and prescribed a 3 day course antibiotics via injection (he legit asked me if a beardie's tail falls off because that's where he was to inject her) To me that was a red flag - surely he should know that dragon's tails don't fall off like a gecko's would. So I was dubious from the get go. But then he just proceeded to inject her before I had time to ask him stuff. Then I asked him if I should notice any side effects and he said no - and he was right - she was moving about normally and although she wasn't eating because I had to keep her at a different location, she was more interested in exploring the house than eating. Note: now that she's back in her tank she's eating and pooping fine.

I went for the second injection last saturday - now the last one is one tuesday. I'm seeing no difference in her scales they're still the same as they were, not getting better but not getting any worse either. I asked some people on reddit and some told me that they were quite common blemishes. So I'm wondering why am I giving her antibiotics if they're for nothing?
Should I stop giving them to her ? or Should I stick to the last one (hoping that this time they don't hurt her, the nurse on saturday actually made her bleed a bit) ?

I'll attach a link to the images I took for the reddit post:
https://imgur.com/gallery/vmfqmch
https://imgur.com/gallery/o7foRQ5

Thanks for your help!!
~a very worried mum
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Re: Need to ask a Vet please regarding Antibiotics

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon May 27, 2019 12:16 am

finish the course of antibiotic injections , in the meantime locate a more competent vet, one who is certified as a reptile vet would be best.

If you need help finding a local reptile vet we can help, all we need is your zip code if the USA or your country and town if not in the USA.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
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Re: Need to ask a Vet please regarding Antibiotics

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon May 27, 2019 12:19 am

MorganaTheSatyr wrote:Hiya!
..
(he legit asked me if a beardie's tail falls off because that's where he was to inject her) To me that was a red flag
<<< incompetent vet.

I'll attach a link to the images I took for the reddit post:
https://imgur.com/gallery/vmfqmch
<<< I can't seen any issues there - the marking look perfectly normal and just some grit between some scales (or mites maybe - not enough to worry about).

https://imgur.com/gallery/o7foRQ5
[color=#FF0000]<<< I can see something in one small area - could be YF or bruising (injection site ?).

Never inject a reptile below the kidneys , the meds will never get past the kidneys.
I was told by my reptile vet to inject in the back at the shoulder blades when I was doing a series of IM antibiotic, IM antiinflamatories and or IM pain relief injections for rescued lizards
[/color].
Thanks for your help!!
~a very worried mum
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Mon May 27, 2019 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
kingofnobbys
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Re: Need to ask a Vet please regarding Antibiotics

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon May 27, 2019 12:24 am

CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
kingofnobbys
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Re: Need to ask a Vet please regarding Antibiotics

Postby MorganaTheSatyr » Mon May 27, 2019 2:10 am



Thanks for the help! But I live in Malta (Europe) I couldn't seem to find anyone on the search. I know of other vets that specify in reptiles but they're far away from where I live so I kinda had to take her to that one vet that was closer to me. I messaged them before I went letting them know that I was coming in with a reptile and their response was - yeah yeah fine fine. So I trusted them. Never again though! Lesson learnt!
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Re: Need to ask a Vet please regarding Antibiotics

Postby MorganaTheSatyr » Mon May 27, 2019 2:21 am

[quote="kingofnobbys"][quote="MorganaTheSatyr"]Hiya!
..

I'll attach a link to the images I took for the reddit post:
https://imgur.com/gallery/vmfqmch
<<< I can't seen any issues there - the marking look perfectly normal and just some grit between some scales (or mites maybe - not enough to worry about).

https://imgur.com/gallery/o7foRQ5
[color=#FF0000]<<< I can see something in one small area - could be YF or bruising (injection site ?).

Never inject a reptile below the kidneys , the meds will never get past the kidneys.
I was told by my reptile vet to inject in the back at the shoulder blades when I was doing a series of IM antibiotic, IM antiinflamatories and or IM pain relief injections for rescued lizards
[/color].


Thanks for the info! Should I still take her then - even if they'll inject her in the tail?
The pictures were taken before I took her to the vet - and after a good bath so she essentially was clean - the grit between the scales is kinda yellowy -which i why I thought it was a YF but it hasn't spread or anything. Do you think I should try a betadine solution? see if that helps?

Thanks again!
MorganaTheSatyr
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Re: Need to ask a Vet please regarding Antibiotics

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon May 27, 2019 3:07 am

MorganaTheSatyr wrote:
kingofnobbys wrote:
MorganaTheSatyr wrote:Hiya!
..

I'll attach a link to the images I took for the reddit post:
https://imgur.com/gallery/vmfqmch
<<< I can't seen any issues there - the marking look perfectly normal and just some grit between some scales (or mites maybe - not enough to worry about).

https://imgur.com/gallery/o7foRQ5
[color=#FF0000]<<< I can see something in one small area - could be YF or bruising (injection site ?).

Never inject a reptile below the kidneys , the meds will never get past the kidneys.
I was told by my reptile vet to inject in the back at the shoulder blades when I was doing a series of IM antibiotic, IM antiinflamatories and or IM pain relief injections for rescued lizards
[/color].


Thanks for the info! Should I still take her then - even if they'll inject her in the tail?
The pictures were taken before I took her to the vet - and after a good bath so she essentially was clean - the grit between the scales is kinda yellowy -which i why I thought it was a YF but it hasn't spread or anything. Do you think I should try a betadine solution? see if that helps?

Thanks again!

If a fungal skin infection , liquid on the skink will make it worse and spread.

Maybe F10 ointment might help. Really needs to be properly diagnosed ( ie swab cultured and tested ).
I think any vet can manage to take a swab for testing (at a pathology lab) and any vet can take blood sample to test for signs of infection (at a pathology lab) , this is what I'd be asking for.
Get the results and take it from there regarding treatment .

Email Drache613, maybe she can chime in .

If there is a reputable pet shop on Malta who sells reptiles, ask them who they recommend for reptile vet care . They will likely have heard from regular customers who the best local vet to take the dragon to and who to avoid.

Malta is a small place , is there a zoo on the island ?
Had a look via Google and I think maybe your best bet might Bird Park Malta +356 9986 8608, reptile and bird vet medicine and treatments are "similar" and the zoo keepers there will likely have an vet they take their injured and sick birds to for treatment .

you could contact them asking to speak to the zoo keepers (especially the herp guys) they will likely aim you in the right direction , there may even be an inhouse vet who is experienced in reptiles.

Otherwise : Silicy is only a short ferry hop from Malta (on the map) and you might find a reptile vet somewhere near the ferry port on Sicily https://www.directferries.com.au/ferrie ... lsrc=aw.ds
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
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Re: Need to ask a Vet please regarding Antibiotics

Postby MorganaTheSatyr » Mon May 27, 2019 3:53 am

Hmm, no we don't have a proper zoo - and our only animal hospital (apart from overcharges) doesn't do reptiles. I had asked a guy who worked with dogs and he gave me the weirdest look.
I'm not sure I trust that bird place tbh the place is slightly shady - I'll still ask though hadn't thought about them, thanks!

I'll deff ask the guy I bought her off - I'm sure he knows of a good reptile vet (although he is located right beside the vet I just went to so I have a feeling I know who he'd recommend)

Sicily is very far fetched tbh, I don't have that kind of money to go and come back plus a vet (apart that I don't speak Italian).

Can I apply the F10 ointment even if its not a fungal/bacterial infection? (like in the mean time until I find a decent vet) How many times a day- for how long?

What are the major signs of a fungal infection? because she's eating and basking normally, very active and not lethargic at all.

Thanks again for all your help! I've been so stressed out the past few days!
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Re: Need to ask a Vet please regarding Antibiotics

Postby AHBD » Mon May 27, 2019 4:04 am

Wow, your vet knows nothing about bearded dragons , he doesn't even know the tail does not detach + grow like in some lizards !! That's a huge red flag. And King, did you not see those pictures ? There is no infection there, barely a tiny scale discoloration here + there. No need for a vet, they wasted your money and are giving meds. which are not needed at all !! This in itself can cause trauma to your dragon. I will p.m the 2 moderators here, they can also look at your pics and I'm sure they will come to the same conclusion. Your dragon is FINE !
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Re: Need to ask a Vet please regarding Antibiotics

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon May 27, 2019 4:11 am

AHBD wrote:Wow, your vet knows nothing about bearded dragons , he doesn't even know the tail does not detach + grow like in some lizards !! That's a huge red flag. And King, did you not see those pictures ? There is no infection there, barely a tiny scale discoloration here + there. No need for a vet, they wasted your money and are giving meds. which are not needed at all !! This in itself can cause trauma to your dragon. I will p.m the 2 moderators here, they can also look at your pics and I'm sure they will come to the same conclusion. Your dragon is FINE !


I saw the pictures, read my comments again.

The OP should still find a good vet , even if dragon is fine NOW , you don't to have the problem of NOT knowing who the local best vet is WHEN the pet dragon is ACTUALLY sick or injured .

OP didn't specify how the vet diagnosed an infection. If it's based on some pathology tests, then finding a good vet IS a good idea.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
kingofnobbys
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Re: Need to ask a Vet please regarding Antibiotics

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon May 27, 2019 4:13 am

MorganaTheSatyr wrote:
kingofnobbys wrote:
MorganaTheSatyr wrote:Hiya!
..

I'll attach a link to the images I took for the reddit post:
https://imgur.com/gallery/vmfqmch
<<< I can't see any issues there - the markings look perfectly normal and just some grit between some scales (or mites maybe - not enough to worry about).

https://imgur.com/gallery/o7foRQ5
[color=#FF0000]<<< I can see something in one small area - could be YF or bruising (injection site ?).

Never inject a reptile below the kidneys , the meds will never get past the kidneys.
I was told by my reptile vet to inject in the back at the shoulder blades when I was doing a series of IM antibiotic, IM antiinflamatories and or IM pain relief injections for rescued lizards
[/color].


Thanks for the info! Should I still take her then - even if they'll inject her in the tail?
The pictures were taken before I took her to the vet - and after a good bath so she essentially was clean - the grit between the scales is kinda yellowy -which i why I thought it was a YF but it hasn't spread or anything. Do you think I should try a betadine solution? see if that helps?

Thanks again!

Not to THAT vet.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
kingofnobbys
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Re: Need to ask a Vet please regarding Antibiotics

Postby AHBD » Mon May 27, 2019 4:15 am

Just a visual, the vet knows nothing about dragons clearly or much else about reptiles. I'll have Tracie + Cooper have a look, no need to alarm this person who already wasted good money + is jeopardizing the dragon's health with dangerous injections which is very obvious.
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Re: Need to ask a Vet please regarding Antibiotics

Postby MorganaTheSatyr » Mon May 27, 2019 4:18 am

Yeah the vet basically just looked at those scales, I suggested (thinking that that's what she had) that it was some sort of infection - he went yeahhh it doesn't look normal - have these antibiotics. So there was no testing of any sort done.

I agree with King that in any case - I need to find a good vet. I'm sure I will - Just need to ask the right people. like customers not the clinic itself "we do reptiles and exotics" is a complete lie in their case.

my main issue is that if her scales are ok and fine - then should I not go to the clinic tomorrow to get the last injection especially since its antibiotics? (Please note: the doctor said pay me at the end of the course - this is so weird - I said ok thinking I'd see some advancement in her treatment. I'd feel bad about not going and not paying for the meds and they do have my details.)
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Re: Need to ask a Vet please regarding Antibiotics

Postby AHBD » Mon May 27, 2019 4:30 am

Sad to say, many vets know little about reptiles and can do more harm than good. We've seen it many times over the years. I've raised dragon from the egg since the 1990's, rarely had need for a vet visit. Many people become alarmed at every little thing [ understandable when you care for a living creature that's new to you ] but these are very hardy creatures. The main thing is good care, good food and not over medicating + traumatizing them. Take your time looking for a new vet because you may go through the same thing again. I personally would call them + say there's no infection here + I would ask what basis they were giving the meds. for what amounts to a tiny scratch on a human. But that's up to you. All new owners are much better off coming to a forum for a first opinion, it could save them money + wasted time. I'd cancel the last shot myself but you do what you think needs done, I'm sorry you got taken by a non expert who really had no qualification to even treat your dragon. He may have meant well but wasted your time + money.
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Re: Need to ask a Vet please regarding Antibiotics

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon May 27, 2019 5:26 am

MorganaTheSatyr wrote:Yeah the vet basically just looked at those scales, I suggested (thinking that that's what she had) that it was some sort of infection - he went yeahhh it doesn't look normal - have these antibiotics. So there was no testing of any sort done.

I agree with King that in any case - I need to find a good vet. I'm sure I will - Just need to ask the right people. like customers not the clinic itself "we do reptiles and exotics" is a complete lie in their case.

my main issue is that if her scales are ok and fine - then should I not go to the clinic tomorrow to get the last injection especially since its antibiotics? (Please note: the doctor said pay me at the end of the course - this is so weird - I said ok thinking I'd see some advancement in her treatment. I'd feel bad about not going and not paying for the meds and they do have my details.)


On the basis of that, cancel, and ask for a bill/invoice , I have no doubt the vet will want payment and will chase payment.
Locate a competent local vet for future reference.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
kingofnobbys
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