Is my bearded dragon brumataing (In spring), or sick?

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Is my bearded dragon brumataing (In spring), or sick?

Postby CaptainHookTheDragon » Sat May 25, 2019 9:24 am

Hello, my dragon has been acting pretty strange as of recently. Ever since I had her (Aside from the first week) she would always stay in the light and would eat plenty, but sometime last month she started showing signs of brumation, completely avoiding the light, and ignoring all food. She doesn't poop unless I give her a bath anymore, and recently she's stopped drinking water even when in the bath.

A little bit more information:

She's coming up on a year, I'd say she's about eight months old if not nine.

I usually feed her dubia roaches, but lately she only eats meal worms which I thought was the sole reason for her not pooping, but sometimes she still goes days even after only eating roaches. I also thought the reason behind her not eating was because she just favored worms, but yesterday morning she ate about seven roaches. I'm definitely still going to try to switch to superworms.

I did also use sand substrate for about four weeks a while back. I thought it would be ok since I don't feed her in her tank, and it was only on half of the tank. I did take it out of course.

The weather here although is starting to get warmer is usually pretty cold, and humid. About two days ago the temperture hit 80 degrees which was about the highest it's been all year, usually it's in the 60's. The tank meter usually has been at the right humidity, but after I recently washed it out it's kind of been stuck at 40-50.

She's getting a lot thinner, and as of this week there are light signs of dehydration. Should I be worried?
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Re: Is my bearded dragon brumataing (In spring), or sick?

Postby CaptainHookTheDragon » Sat May 25, 2019 9:26 am

Oh yeah, and as for the temperatures it usually stays around at 100. The light is about six months old, so I'm probably going to have to replace it soon as well.
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Re: Is my bearded dragon brumataing (In spring), or sick?

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat May 25, 2019 9:37 am

If the weather has turned stormy / nasty , they have a knack of sensing it even if they are living a climate controlled home , and they will hunker down to wait out the weather.

If the dragon is going through it's first winter, it's best to keep the temperatures in it's tank up and the photoperiod nice and long (I suggest at least 14 hours for the heat and UV to be on) to encourage the juvenile dragon to stay active , feeding and growing.
Not many yearling dragons will have the fat reserves to sustain them for weeks if they go into brumation, the dragon my slow down but still be showing an interest in daily feedings and basking and interaction.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
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Re: Is my bearded dragon brumataing (In spring), or sick?

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat May 25, 2019 9:42 am

CaptainHookTheDragon wrote:Oh yeah, and as for the temperatures it usually stays around at 100. The light is about six months old, so I'm probably going to have to replace it soon as well.


I'd replace it NOW. Only uv sources I know of that are guaranteed to last longer than 6 months ( and be performing very close to new specs) are those made by Arcadia Reptile.

Most UV sources are pretty badly aged (in the phosphors when they are 6 months old) , I've monitored 26W UVB200 globes , brand-new they were working exactly as advertised , at 6 months old the UV emissions had dropped to about 25% of new.
This in itself is enough to cause neurological issues and poor calcium photosynthesis and to make a dragon go off it's food and become lethargic.
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Sat May 25, 2019 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
kingofnobbys
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Re: Is my bearded dragon brumataing (In spring), or sick?

Postby KarrieRee » Sat May 25, 2019 9:48 am

What kind of UVB are you using? And where is it in the tank -- you dont want her to loose weight-- you can bathe her to get her dehydrated but make sure she is back under her basking light when done so she can dry off --- do you have water in her tank for humidity - is your house humid? You can get a dehumidifier for your house or the room she is in to get some of the humidity out --
Karrie
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Re: Is my bearded dragon brumataing (In spring), or sick?

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat May 25, 2019 9:55 am

KarrieRee wrote:What kind of UVB are you using? And where is it in the tank -- you dont want her to loose weight-- you can bathe her to get her dehydrated but make sure she is back under her basking light when done so she can dry off --- do you have water in her tank for humidity - is your house humid? You can get a dehumidifier for your house or the room she is in to get some of the humidity out --
Karrie


Just be aware that the only way bathing will help hydrate a bearded dragon is if it actually drinks some of the bath water while it's in there.
They do not take up moisture via the vent , or through their skin.

Best way to rehydrate a dragon (assuming it's actually dehydrated) is to give it fresh salad and live insects who have been well hydrated , and to offer water by dripping water on the dragon's snout (this will encourage a thirsty dragon to drink the droplets of water as the drain to it's lips).

If the dragon is already in weakened state, be very careful when bathing it , they can very easily aspirate water into their lungs and even drown . IMO bathing a weakened dragon is more risk than benefit.

The relative humidity in the home is only an issue if it's extreme (high 80s or higher %RH for long periods of time).
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
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Re: Is my bearded dragon brumataing (In spring), or sick?

Postby CaptainHookTheDragon » Sat May 25, 2019 10:59 am

kingofnobbys wrote:
CaptainHookTheDragon wrote:Oh yeah, and as for the temperatures it usually stays around at 100. The light is about six months old, so I'm probably going to have to replace it soon as well.


I'd replace it NOW. Only uv sources I know of that are guaranteed to last longer than 6 months ( and be performing very close to new specs) are those made by Arcadia Reptile.

Most UV sources are pretty badly aged (in the phosphors when they are 6 months old) , I've monitored 26W UVB200 globes , brand-new they were working exactly as advertised , at 6 months old the UV emissions had dropped to about 25% of new.
This in itself is enough to cause neurological issues and poor calcium photosynthesis and to make a dragon go off it's food and become lethargic.


Thanks! I'll certainly try to replace it next week. Any recomendations?
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Re: Is my bearded dragon brumataing (In spring), or sick?

Postby CaptainHookTheDragon » Sat May 25, 2019 11:03 am

KarrieRee wrote:What kind of UVB are you using? And where is it in the tank -- you dont want her to loose weight-- you can bathe her to get her dehydrated but make sure she is back under her basking light when done so she can dry off --- do you have water in her tank for humidity - is your house humid? You can get a dehumidifier for your house or the room she is in to get some of the humidity out --
Karrie


Hmm I'm not completely sure what UVB I'm using. All I know is it came with the 40 gallon Reptihabitat if that helps?

Yes I also do have water in the tank, and my house is pretty humid. I may have to get a dehumidifier, but I am kind of afraid that might mess with the budgies I have.
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Re: Is my bearded dragon brumataing (In spring), or sick?

Postby KarrieRee » Sat May 25, 2019 11:07 am

Please check the UVB the brand and the bulb---- my guess its a junk one--- if its a coil it definatley is no good----------- you want a good UVB it is crucial to their over all health and behavior and where it is mounted as well ------------- you need to replace it w/ one of these
Which UVB light should I use?
The best UVB light is a ReptiSun 10.0 fluorescent tube HO (Or Arcardia 12% in the UK). Compact or coil bulbs do not emit the proper amount of UVB light for a bearded dragon, and should not be used. Other brands, such as the Zilla Desert Series and ReptiGlo have been known to cause eye problems and other health issues with bearded dragons, and should be avoided. The reason that some UVB lights (Zilla, ReptiGlo, coils/compacts, ect.) are considered dangerous is because the wavelength of UVB that they emit is shorter and more intense than the wavelength of the "safe" lights (ReptiSun, Arcadia).
UVB lights should be replaced every 6 months. The T5’s are a strong bulb and only need to be replaced once a year – the T 8 every 6 months--- where as the T 8 are not as strong—they need to be placed inside the tank the T 5 10.0 bulb approx 10-11 inches from basking spot – the T 8 approx 8-10 inches from basking spot—the cover needs to be off the bulb for full effect of the UVB rays-- this could be your issue w/ her --- please check to see what you have
Karrie
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Re: Is my bearded dragon brumataing (In spring), or sick?

Postby CaptainHookTheDragon » Sat May 25, 2019 11:08 am

kingofnobbys wrote:
KarrieRee wrote:What kind of UVB are you using? And where is it in the tank -- you dont want her to loose weight-- you can bathe her to get her dehydrated but make sure she is back under her basking light when done so she can dry off --- do you have water in her tank for humidity - is your house humid? You can get a dehumidifier for your house or the room she is in to get some of the humidity out --
Karrie


Just be aware that the only way bathing will help hydrate a bearded dragon is if it actually drinks some of the bath water while it's in there.
They do not take up moisture via the vent , or through their skin.

Best way to rehydrate a dragon (assuming it's actually dehydrated) is to give it fresh salad and live insects who have been well hydrated , and to offer water by dripping water on the dragon's snout (this will encourage a thirsty dragon to drink the droplets of water as the drain to it's lips).

If the dragon is already in weakened state, be very careful when bathing it , they can very easily aspirate water into their lungs and even drown . IMO bathing a weakened dragon is more risk than benefit.

The relative humidity in the home is only an issue if it's extreme (high 80s or higher %RH for long periods of time).


I'm still having slight troubles getting her to eat vegetables without mealworms, and it's been pretty rough recently since she barley eats at all. She does however love blueberries, and other fruit if that'll help?
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Re: Is my bearded dragon brumataing (In spring), or sick?

Postby CaptainHookTheDragon » Sat May 25, 2019 11:19 am

KarrieRee wrote:Please check the UVB the brand and the bulb---- my guess its a junk one--- if its a coil it definatley is no good----------- you want a good UVB it is crucial to their over all health and behavior and where it is mounted as well ------------- you need to replace it w/ one of these
Which UVB light should I use?
The best UVB light is a ReptiSun 10.0 fluorescent tube HO (Or Arcardia 12% in the UK). Compact or coil bulbs do not emit the proper amount of UVB light for a bearded dragon, and should not be used. Other brands, such as the Zilla Desert Series and ReptiGlo have been known to cause eye problems and other health issues with bearded dragons, and should be avoided. The reason that some UVB lights (Zilla, ReptiGlo, coils/compacts, ect.) are considered dangerous is because the wavelength of UVB that they emit is shorter and more intense than the wavelength of the "safe" lights (ReptiSun, Arcadia).
UVB lights should be replaced every 6 months. The T5’s are a strong bulb and only need to be replaced once a year – the T 8 every 6 months--- where as the T 8 are not as strong—they need to be placed inside the tank the T 5 10.0 bulb approx 10-11 inches from basking spot – the T 8 approx 8-10 inches from basking spot—the cover needs to be off the bulb for full effect of the UVB rays-- this could be your issue w/ her --- please check to see what you have
Karrie


So I just looked it up, the one I have is a ReptiSun 10.0 fluorescent tube. I'm probably going to go get another one first thing in the morning. It's mounted the lamp thing that came with the package on the top of the 40 gallon tank over a screen. Some more information that I forgot to add was that she rarely lays on her basking rock which puts her closer to the light, instead she usually just lays on nearby log, or on the ground. That made me kind of think she was overheating?
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Re: Is my bearded dragon brumataing (In spring), or sick?

Postby KarrieRee » Sat May 25, 2019 12:05 pm

If its a T 8 it needs to be changed out if its 6 months old--- as far as basking how are you taking temps? 95-105 for basking but it needs to be taken w/ a infrared heat gun to get the most accurate temps
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Re: Is my bearded dragon brumataing (In spring), or sick?

Postby CaptainHookTheDragon » Sun May 26, 2019 4:14 pm

KarrieRee wrote:If its a T 8 it needs to be changed out if its 6 months old--- as far as basking how are you taking temps? 95-105 for basking but it needs to be taken w/ a infrared heat gun to get the most accurate temps
Karrie


I made a pretty bad mistake :( So last night I ordered a new UVB light, and it just arrived. I thought I got the same one, but it turns out to be a smaller version of the one I have. I have a Reptisun 10.0 3U-26watt the ones that I bought are 2U-13watt. Would those be ok? Or do I just need to trash them? I saw the T8, but it seemed I would have to get a different lamp to mount it. I'll try to switch to that when I have more money.

Also, the basking temp usually stays at 100.
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Re: Is my bearded dragon brumataing (In spring), or sick?

Postby KarrieRee » Sun May 26, 2019 5:31 pm

That is a coil and they are no good you want a tube that fits the regular fixture--- either a T 8 or a T 5 - T 5's take a flat fixture and last longer than the T 8's- google the Reptisun 10.0 T 5 and a T 8-- you can see the difference- T 8's are not as strong as the T 5's and need to be changed out every 6 months - the T 5 will last a year--
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Re: Is my bearded dragon brumataing (In spring), or sick?

Postby CaptainHookTheDragon » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:12 am

UPDATE: So yesterday I was finally able to get a Reptisun T8 10.0 bulb, along with a terrarium hood! The new light is noticeably brighter than any of the lights I've had in the past because of the reflector and the size, it pretty much lights the whole tank now rather than one spot/ half of the tank. Not sure if this is good or bad? This morning she's eaten more than she has in weeks, and today is the first day in a while that she hunted her insects herself, and has eaten vegetables. However, this all could just be because she hasn't eaten at all in about two days.

All of this lasted for about 6 hours. The lights turned on at 6am, and now at exactly 12pm she has crawled under her log. This has happened for the past few weeks where she stays up for about 5-7 hours, and she usually heads back to sleep.

I've spoken to my local vet, and a vet visit is actually extremely affordable. I'll try to give this another week, and see what else I can do. If she doesn't seem to be getting better then I'll probably just have to take her to the vet.
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