Too young for breeding?

This forum is for urgent health concerns, where your beardie seems very ill and you need immediate help!

Too young for breeding?

Postby OddlyToasty » Fri May 24, 2019 7:56 am

So i just bought a female sub adult beardie and i have another sub adult but male. The female i just got 2 days ago. they are both around 9-10 months i think and I just let them run around in our bath room cause they cant go anywhere. This time they mated and i really do not know what to do now because I just read about it and it turns out that the female might die?! Could anybody help me and explain to me what I will need for the female and for the eggs? This is the first time I've had a female and I've only had the male for around 8 months now so I'm pretty new at this still. :| :( :?:
OddlyToasty
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri May 24, 2019 7:48 am
- Advertisement -
- Advertisement -

Re: Too young for breeding?

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri May 24, 2019 8:16 am

Best to avoid her becoming gravid until she's at least 2 years old. If yo'reu lucky , she's not really fertile yet and he was only firing blanks. Not every matting results in fertilized eggs.

So no hanky-panky for her for this season.

Reason is developing eggs and laying one to more clutches is very hard on a young immature dragon's body , best to let her become fully grown and fully developed if you have your heart set on breeding her.
Keep in mind you will need an incubator and when the hatchling emerge they are very hungry and need live insect meals several times per day and adequate housing , are you prepared for that ?
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Fri May 24, 2019 8:32 am, edited 3 times in total.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
kingofnobbys
BD.org Sicko
 
Posts: 10262
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 10:56 pm

Re: Too young for breeding?

Postby claudiusx » Fri May 24, 2019 8:26 am

OddlyToasty wrote:This time they mated and i really do not know what to do now because I just read about it and it turns out that the female might die?! Could anybody help me and explain to me what I will need for the female and for the eggs?

kingofnobbys wrote:Best to avoid her becoming gravid until she's at least 2 years old.

So no hanky-panky for her for this season.



Hi there,

Since they already mated there's not much point in telling you to avoid her becoming gravid lol. Not like you have much say in it now :P

She is really young, but they are tough creatures and as long as you're caring for her properly she should be fine. Make sure she is eating healthy and as she starts getting closer to laying, up her calcium intake and continue with it for a few weeks after she lays.

When she is ready to lay, usually they get really antsy and are running around the tank desperately like. They also will sometimes slow down with eating because their main goal becomes finding a place to lay their eggs.

When you see this behavior it's time to place her in a lay box, or place a lay box in her tank so she can feel comfortable laying her eggs.

Once she lays them, i'd suggest putting them in the freezer to humanly stop the embryo development. once they have been frozen you can dispose of them.
If you decide to try to hatch them, make sure you do a ton of research, and understand the time, commitments, space commitments, any monetary commitments.

Good luck,
We will be here to help you through it the whole way so don't hesitate to ask questions.

-Brandon
User avatar
claudiusx
BD.org Sicko
 
Posts: 13445
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:44 pm
Location: California

Re: Too young for breeding?

Postby OddlyToasty » Fri May 24, 2019 9:10 am

Thanks for the support!! I just hope nothing happens to her when she lays the eggs. If she does lay them and survive I'm planning on selling them because they will probably be too much for me to handle. I have to keep them for 8 weeks before selling right? i read that somewhere on a forum but is it a must? And she is already running around and freaking out I'm pretty sure it's cause she is still stressed because she was brought to me and is in a new home now but when do the effects of the pregnancy usually start taking affect? By the way it just happened today like 4 hours ago.
OddlyToasty
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri May 24, 2019 7:48 am

Re: Too young for breeding?

Postby OddlyToasty » Fri May 24, 2019 9:15 am

sorry I know I'm asking a lot of questions rn :lol: just one more.
Could you link me some websites that are good to read about this topic? for example a website about what ill need to buy for the pregnant beardie?
OddlyToasty
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri May 24, 2019 7:48 am

Re: Too young for breeding?

Postby claudiusx » Fri May 24, 2019 9:46 am

OddlyToasty wrote:I'm planning on selling them because they will probably be too much for me to handle.


That's why I suggested freezing them. You most likely won't make back even the money you spend on feeders alone for them, let alone factoring in the cost of lighting, housing, time, incubator, etc.

And you have to have a plan on how you're going to sell them. Will a petstore local to you take them? They definitely won't until they are at least 6 weeks old usually, and they won't give you a good price since they have to make a profit.

Are you going to sell online? Do you have a following to sell to. Do you have the top of the line high end morphs that make people want to order from you? You have huge shipping costs to consider. Plus, all the work and stress that goes into that.
If you are shipping they really should be at least 10g before shipping. That could easily be 8 weeks. 20+ voracious mouths to feed for 2 months at a minimum is a lot of money. And thats only assuming you'd be able to sell them all very quickly, which is highly unlikely.

I'm not trying to talk you out of it, I just want you to understand everything that's involved in this so that you can make a proper decision.
If you have the knowledge, the time, the money, the space, and a reasonable assumption that you can sell 20~ baby dragons, go for it.

-Brandon
User avatar
claudiusx
BD.org Sicko
 
Posts: 13445
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:44 pm
Location: California

Re: Too young for breeding?

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri May 24, 2019 10:30 am

OddlyToasty wrote:Thanks for the support!! I just hope nothing happens to her when she lays the eggs. If she does lay them and survive I'm planning on selling them because they will probably be too much for me to handle. I have to keep them for 8 weeks before selling right? i read that somewhere on a forum but is it a must? And she is already running around and freaking out I'm pretty sure it's cause she is still stressed because she was brought to me and is in a new home now but when do the effects of the pregnancy usually start taking affect? By the way it just happened today like 4 hours ago.


From what I've read and been told by friends of mine who have been breeding dragons for many years, it's very important to provide adequate heating and UV and food and sufficient housing for the hatchling to ensure they are all getting adequate food, heat and UV and are not being overstressed by being overcrowded , and they must be kept separate from their parents (else they are likely to be eaten).

None of the breeders I've dealt with will let a hatchling go to a knew home unless
>> it's eating well and consistently
>> is eating some salad and grated veg each day
>> is healthy
>> any nips (on toes, ends of tails) are healed

So yes pretty much 6 to 8 weeks is the minimum the breeder is going to need to care for and rear the hatchlings , my latest two were 3 months old when I bought them.

Younger hatchlings are often sold in petshops (from what I've read here) , this really makes the frail and delicate little hatchlings a touch and go situation in the pet shop where care is often subpar or even barely minimal and when they are sold onto to inexperienced customers who often find themselves very quickly out of their depth with a sick hatchling or one that is failing to thrive and grow.

I really think you are jumping the gun wrt the dragon being gravid at this point. It will take 4 to 6 weeks after a successful mating the eggs to develop . Unless she's been put into cool down /brumation , the chances are she's not fertile , and the same applies to the male. A mating doesn't mean she's now gravid. Signs will manifest themselves over the next week or two if she is.

In the meantime - like I said , no hanky-panky for her from now on if you not prepared before hand.
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Fri May 24, 2019 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
kingofnobbys
BD.org Sicko
 
Posts: 10262
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 10:56 pm

Re: Too young for breeding?

Postby OddlyToasty » Fri May 24, 2019 10:34 am

I have a spot in my house i can keep them (It's like a really big thing in our downstairs room like it's a window that opens and basically looks like a terrarium, i just need to add deco, lighting and something for heat), Lighting and heat are no problem and the food i can order online for em. Idk how i'm gonna feed em all tho i need to ask some friends to help me feed 20 beardies


and there is a pet store i can sell them to
OddlyToasty
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri May 24, 2019 7:48 am
- Advertisement -
- Advertisement -

Re: Too young for breeding?

Postby claudiusx » Fri May 24, 2019 10:53 am

If you're willing to take a monetary loss than just be prepared for that. We are here to help and will help guide you along the way :)

Some quick math

20 babies, each eating 50~ tiny crickets a day = 1000 crickets per day. If you ordered 1000 crickets a day, you'd be looking at 15 bucks a day in crickets alone. Add 5 dollars for shipping and you're at 20 bucks a day for feeders. 20 bucks a day x 8 weeks = $1120.
Most pet shops sell beardies for 60-80 bucks, unless they are fancy dragons. Which means you'll get lucky if they are even willing to offer you 50 bucks a dragon.
IF you sell all 20 to them for a generous $50 and you only had to hold on to them for 8 weeks, you've lost 120 bucks. But remember thats only factoring in crickets. Doesn't factor in your lighting cost, your electricity cost, your time cost, or the hassle of either getting 1000 crickets delievered every day, or buying in higher quantities and having to keep thousands of crickets alive at a time (which is more money.
There are lots of assumptions there, but it should be generally acceptable. Each dragon might not eat 50 a day, maybe half that. But you also can't guarantee you'll only have them for 8 weeks. You could have them for 12 weeks. or 16 weeks. And the petstore giving you $50 per dragon was generous at least in my area. You might want to ask your petstores what they'd be willing to pay.

Unless you have a very large and established dubia colony, you won't break even. Not unless you have top of the line morphs which you could sell for 200-500 dollars. Even then you're looking at not making much of a profit.

I only say this because I see a lot of people thinking it will be fun and easy, and then getting overwhelmed with how much care goes into raising a full clutch, and then dozens of living baby creatures dying because the owner wasn't fully aware of the commitment.

But like I said, if you're aware of it, and willing, we will help guide you :D

-Brandon
User avatar
claudiusx
BD.org Sicko
 
Posts: 13445
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:44 pm
Location: California

Re: Too young for breeding?

Postby OddlyToasty » Fri May 24, 2019 10:55 am

Damn I'm hoping they're infertile :shock:

with all that money i can buy a monkey
OddlyToasty
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri May 24, 2019 7:48 am

Re: Too young for breeding?

Postby claudiusx » Fri May 24, 2019 10:56 am

Actually, I just thought of another potential option for you.

Since I would never want to deny someone the joys of hatching baby dragons, something you could do to make it more manageable would be perhaps to freeze all the eggs except for a small handful. Maybe 4 or 6? That would be much easier on you, especially since it's your first time, and allow you the joys of hatching, and much less of the stress of raising and homing 20~ dragons.

Just a thought. :mrgreen:

-Brandon
User avatar
claudiusx
BD.org Sicko
 
Posts: 13445
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:44 pm
Location: California

Re: Too young for breeding?

Postby Ellentomologist » Fri May 24, 2019 11:09 am

Just chiming in here - I really like Brandon's thought of freezing all but a few of the eggs. I've been researching reptile breeding a lot lately - not for BD but for Ball Pythons and it can be a huge resource drain for sure, unless you're already breeding your own feeders and have enough room, etc. I wouldn't recommend doing a full batch of eggs, especially with a accidental breeding.

Best,
-Ellentomologist
About Guac: Full name is Guacamole Kangarilla. 3 year old normal. Picky eater who is often slightly thin as a result. Would eat superworms and blueberries all day, but mom says that is NOT a balanced diet.
About me: Recent graduate working at a research laboratory. Keep many invertebrates, reptiles, and amphibians. Love getting and giving book recommendations. HUGE DnD and tabletop RPG nerd. Sorry if I post the same info right after someone else does, I tend to open many tabs and not refresh.
Ellentomologist
Hatchling Poster
 
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:06 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Too young for breeding?

Postby OddlyToasty » Fri May 24, 2019 11:13 am

Well obviously i was gonna keep some i was thinking around 4
OddlyToasty
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri May 24, 2019 7:48 am

Re: Too young for breeding?

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri May 24, 2019 11:41 pm

Ellentomologist wrote:Just chiming in here - I really like Brandon's thought of freezing all but a few of the eggs. I've been researching reptile breeding a lot lately - not for BD but for Ball Pythons and it can be a huge resource drain for sure, unless you're already breeding your own feeders and have enough room, etc. I wouldn't recommend doing a full batch of eggs, especially with a accidental breeding.

Best,
-Ellentomologist


Could feed the "slugs" (if she produces any) or the eggs that are unwanted (to hatch) to the adult dragons ( they are very nutritious and dragons are known to raid other dragon's nests in the wild for this very reason ).

If the OP is going to keep 4 or so fertile eggs to hatch , will still need an temperature and humidity controlled incubator.

Would love to see the eggs , and hatchlings when they hatch too.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
kingofnobbys
BD.org Sicko
 
Posts: 10262
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 10:56 pm

Re: Too young for breeding?

Postby OddlyToasty » Sat May 25, 2019 1:00 am

could anybody link me a good incubator and anything else i would need?
OddlyToasty
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri May 24, 2019 7:48 am
- Advertisement -
- Advertisement -

Next

Return to Beardie ER

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], Runflyride, sydcersos