basking light without uv??

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basking light without uv??

Postby lillee » Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:57 am

so i’m redoing my beardies setup in order to get better temps, and so i’m adding in basking lights along with his che’s. the problem, however, is i already have a uv light (reptisun 10.0), and most basking bulbs come with uv, and i don’t want to overload my lil guy with uv. are there any basking bulbs that put off heat, but no uv rays?
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Re: basking light without uv??

Postby claudiusx » Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:39 am

I think you are confused on the difference between uva and uvb.

Your reptisun bulb produces uva and uvb. Uva is present in about all visible light to put it simply.

Every lightbulb in your house produces uva. If light is being produced, their is most likely uva.

So most light bulbs will emit uva, but only bulbs that specifically state that they produce uvb will produce uvb.

So there is no danger of adding too much uvb to your tank by adding more lighting. Unless of course the bulbs you are using produce uvb too. But this would be obvious.

-Brandon
Last edited by claudiusx on Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: basking light without uv??

Postby kingofnobbys » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:14 am

Typical basking globes used for bearded dragons are

MVBs , these give off heat, nice light , UVA & UVB.
Neodymium coated flood globes , these give off heat, nice light and UVA.
Metal Halide globes , these give off heat , nice light , UVA & UVB but require special controllers.
Domestic Par38 incandescent flood globes , these give off heat and nice light, no UV.
Domestic Par38 halogen flood globes , these give off heat and nice light , very little UV.
Domestic GU10 halogen globes , these give off heat and nice light and some UV.

Aim for a total of about 180 - 200 microW UVB / sq.cm & 1 mW UVA / sq.cm at the basking spot and your dragon will be healthy.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: basking light without uv??

Postby claudiusx » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:55 am

Incandescents give off uv also. That's why I said basically all light emitting bulbs do.

https://sciencing.com/lights-give-off-uv-rays-8332010.html

-Brandon
Last edited by claudiusx on Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: basking light without uv??

Postby claudiusx » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:01 am

Even LEDs produce UV for what its worth...

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Re: basking light without uv??

Postby kingofnobbys » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:53 pm

claudiusx wrote:Incandescents give off uv also. That's why I said basically all light emitting bulbs do.

https://sciencing.com/lights-give-off-uv-rays-8332010.html

-Brandon



from your source :
Incandescent light bulbs, the most commonly used light bulbs in homes, give off small amounts of UV light. The UV light emitted by these bulbs is so small that it's impossible for human health to be affected in any noticeable way. Incandescent bulbs won't cause sunburns and they won't help people or animals absorb Vitamin D. These bulbs emit only UVA rays.

The physics of it is that the glasses in domestic light globes is basic common silicon based glass , this glass has a very low UV transmission (even for the very thin glass in the globes and the tubes, literally under 1% of the UV created in the globe on electrical excitation of the filament in globes or the phosphors in tubes gets through the glass.
Laminated glass totally blocks UVA radiation, while smooth ordinary glass transmits the highest dose (74.3%).
Green glass totally blocks UVA radiation, while blue glass transmits the highest dose of radiation (56.8%).
All domestic glasses totally block UVB radiation.

Image

The glass used is the same stuff used in drink bottles actually ( this is where many recycled drink bottles end up , I've been to a Philips Light Bulb making plant and seen the process from sand or pulverized recycled glass bottles and broken window glass and broken car windows , through the blending plant , the furnace , to the light globe and tube making plant (is amazingly complicated machinery in the light globe blower machines and in the fluorescent tube making plant).

The glass used in MVBs, MHBs and reptile UV tubes and compacts is a different type of glass ( quartz ) and this can be tailored to pass UVA & UVB but block UVC. This is why these are expensive.
Image

Compare glasses (thin)
Image

Curves from various laboratory suppliers, physics and chemistry references.
UVA 315–400 nm
UVB 280–315 nm
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: basking light without uv??

Postby claudiusx » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:49 am

I don't see your point. I never said an incandescent puts out enough uv for a dragon. All I said was they do put out UV. Just because I didnt explicitly state how much they do with graphs and charts doesnt mean I wasnt aware of the amount being low.
OP was concerned about adding too much UV to his enclosure. All I was explaining was the differences about uva and uvb, and how any bulb he's going to get for hits dragon is going to put off some uva, but that's fine. The only reason I sent you that link was you stated that incandescents don't put out uva, which they do. I never said they put out large amounts of it.

Remember, OP is looking for lighting options that won't be putting out strong uv, not the opposite. Which is why the original suggestion of any bulb that isnt specifically made to produce uvb will do fine.
Unless you're suggesting the green bulb you mentioned.... I dont see how all that relates to ops question.

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Re: basking light without uv??

Postby claudiusx » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:55 am

Ops original question : basking light without UV

Basking light without which type of UV? Uva or uvb?

Basking light without uvb: pretty much any bulb you get that doesnt explicitly say it produces uvb.

Basking light without uva: not happening they all give off some amount of uva. But like has been mentioned, not enough uva to cause you any concern with your dragons.

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Re: basking light without uv??

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:12 am

claudiusx wrote:I don't see your point. I never said an incandescent puts out enough uv for a dragon. All I said was they do put out UV. Just because I didnt explicitly state how much they do with graphs and charts doesnt mean I wasnt aware of the amount being low.
OP was concerned about adding too much UV to his enclosure. All I was explaining was the differences about uva and uvb, and how any bulb he's going to get for hits dragon is going to put off some uva, but that's fine. The only reason I sent you that link was you stated that incandescents don't put out uva, which they do. I never said they put out large amounts of it.

<<< not likely to be issue as in the wild centrals and rankins are routinely active on sunny days when the UV is considerably higher than you will ever encounter in a viv using MVBs, MHBs, t5ho tubes.
See this viewtopic.php?f=6&t=234801&p=1806497#p1806497
in particular this graph of natural sunlight UV intensity
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/images/decsols ... -800px.gif
which indicates UV level in their natural range a much as 3x to 5x higher than most artificial setups are providing. What you'll find is that the dragon simply bask long enough to get it's doseage of UVA & UVB and will then seek out a shady place.

This is what all my pet skinks and dragons do , and I've seen wild specimens do the same.

This graphic is all the guidance the OP needs
Image
with the following recommended options
very small tanks :
MVB (or maybe a MHB) only for a very small floor area tank
or
incandescent or halogen or GU10 halogen + UVB200 for a small are tank not more than 40cm tall.

MVB or MHB + 10%UVB T8 (or UVB200)
or
incandescent or halogen or GU10 halogen + 10%UVB T8 (or UVB200)
for larger area tanks not more 40cm tall

MVB or MHB + 10%UVB* T5ho
or
incandescent or halogen + 10%UVB* T5ho
for larger aread tanks not more than 50 cm tall , * a 12%UVB T5ho will be better.

Taller larger area tanks I'd go for a 14%UVB T5ho + high wattage MVB.

Remember, OP is looking for lighting options that won't be putting out strong uv, not the opposite. Which is why the original suggestion of any bulb that isnt specifically made to produce uvb will do fine.
Unless you're suggesting the green bulb you mentioned.... I dont see how all that relates to ops question.
<<< no - not suggesting any sort of coloured bulb at all. The data with coloured bulbs is simply as is (as I found it).

-Brandon


If he's really worried , he needs to get his hands on a Solarmeter Model 6.2 to directly measure the UVB and a Model 4.2 to measure the UVB from series of domestic spot and flood globes since domestic globe manufacturers do not cite the UVA and UVB flux or give charts with distance of these for their globes.
Blanket statements that they emit UVA but not UVB are no help unless they actually specify the levels of emissions as made in a testing lab and give microW / sq.cm flux charts like their luminescence charts.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: basking light without uv??

Postby claudiusx » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:54 am

Once again, op was simply asking for bulbs he can use in his tank without adding UV.
Op never stated if he was concerned with uvb or uva in particular.

The answer to ops question. Any bulb you want that doesnt explicitly state that it produces uv. As most all others will emit negligible amounts of uva, and no uvb.

-Brandon
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Re: basking light without uv??

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:31 am

over thinking it.

He has a very small tank, I suggest a MVB and T8 12%UVB .
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: basking light without uv??

Postby Drache613 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:08 am

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Re: basking light without uv??

Postby claudiusx » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:02 am

kingofnobbys wrote:over thinking it.

He has a very small tank, I suggest a MVB and T8 12%UVB .


Why would you suggest two uvb sources in a small tank? Or did you mean this for the other thread?

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Re: basking light without uv??

Postby kingofnobbys » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:08 am

claudiusx wrote:
kingofnobbys wrote:over thinking it.

He has a very small tank, I suggest a MVB and T8 12%UVB .


Why would you suggest two uvb sources in a small tank? Or did you mean this for the other thread?

-Brandon


Looking at his post history he has a 125 gallon tank
Op's tank
Image
. So yes , two sources of UVA & UVB , one highly focused at the basking spot the other more distributed linearly , will work just fine.

He was using a small breeder, could have got away with just a MVB in this.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
kingofnobbys
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Re: basking light without uv??

Postby lillee » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:47 am

thank you all! i wasn’t compeltely aware of the differences between uva/uvb, and can now fix his tank so he has proper heating and lighting. <3
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