Multiple vets and scans, NO ANSWERS! Any tips welcome

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Multiple vets and scans, NO ANSWERS! Any tips welcome

Postby artemisia » Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:44 am

Hi all,

My beardie, Javi, is about 3 years old. Beginning in mid-December, her left eye has steadily swollen to epic proportions. I have been to three exotics vets, who have run pretty much every test imaginable - sonogram, blood cancer test, X-rays, even a CT scan...

And still, there's no answers. The most recent vet (to whom I was referred by the second) says that, according to Javi's CT scan, she has two masses by her eye: one beside, one behind. She also has a small mass lodged in her nasal cavity. Neither she nor the radiologist can tell me what the masses are.

Javi was also found to be egg-bound, and therefore anemic/hypocalcemic. She needs to be spayed. Obviously, that can't happen until her eye issue is resolved.

Javi has been behaving normally, until today. Typically, she's a major diva who likes to jump off things. Today, she seems sluggish and floppy. Also, the other eye is starting to swell. I kid you not.

Both eyes exude a clear, viscous fluid which is free of parasites (according to vet #3). The more severely affected eye is purplish around the edges. There also appears to be some minor shedding going on. Javi's blood cancer tests were negative. She was treated twice with IV antibiotics, to no avail. Anti-inflammatories do nothing.

I know you're not exotics specialists, but if any of you have any idea what might be going on here, I'm all ears. Like I said: I've been to three vets, and all of them are stumped. The last test to do would be a contrast CT. I feel helpless.

Here's a quick rundown of diseases/ailments that have yet to be ruled out:
- Adenovirus
- Cryptosporidiosis
- Yellow fungus/CVT
- Cancer
- Aneurysms

I've attached pictures:

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Re: Multiple vets and scans, NO ANSWERS! Any tips welcome

Postby KarrieRee » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:22 pm

Oh my gosh--- Tracie needs to see her --- shes our vet moderator -- maybe some others on the board can help out and give you some tips on what might be wrong and some helpful hints on how to help her
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Re: Multiple vets and scans, NO ANSWERS! Any tips welcome

Postby HerpGirl » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:50 pm

:shock: :shock:OMG!!!! That's crazy! What substrate do you use? What do you feed her?
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Re: Multiple vets and scans, NO ANSWERS! Any tips welcome

Postby AHBD » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:00 pm

Hi there, I really feel for you + esp. your little girl. What a trooper she is with such serious issues going on. I truly hope they can research enough about masses that affect the eye + if there are any alternatives to surgery or if they will 100 % need to do it. In the meantimes there is something to try that is a long shot but may at least provide some relief if the eye is infected. Raw unpasteurized honey, a powerful antimicrobial that is safe to use in the eye. I used it on my dragons swollen infected eye and it worked within days. I know this is not the same thing but it can't hurt and it's inexpensive. If you try it, dilute it with 2 parts warm [ never hot ] water + apply twice a day with a Q-tip.
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Re: Multiple vets and scans, NO ANSWERS! Any tips welcome

Postby artemisia » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:43 pm

HerpGirl wrote::shock: :shock:OMG!!!! That's crazy! What substrate do you use? What do you feed her?


I don't use substrate, only mats (you know, the green/brown mats from PetCo), because Javi is a sloppy eater. Her idea of "hunting" involves smashing the prey into the ground, repeatedly. Inevitable impaction!

Javi will only eat hornworms and silkworms. She will never, ever eat a cricket, not even if I freeze them, kill them first, mutilate them, tongs, whatever. Like I said, she's a diva. She also likes swiss chard and arugula. She will violently attack any other green I present her with. Once, I gave her bok choy, and she poo'ed on it instantly. Glorious.

AHBD wrote:if there are any alternatives to surgery or if they will 100 % need to do it.


Right now, vet #3 says there's insufficient information for surgery. They don't know if surgery is even an option. This is why they're banking on a contrast CT, to show them what the damn thing is (aneurysm, cancer, whatever). I'm told that if it's an aneurysm, they probably won't operate.

tl;dr Until they can figure out what the masses are, no surgery will be performed.

I'll definitely try the honey thing! Recently I've been using warm/wet cotton rounds as compresses, to clean things up a bit.
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Re: Multiple vets and scans, NO ANSWERS! Any tips welcome

Postby KarrieRee » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:51 pm

You might try some dubia roaches --
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Re: Multiple vets and scans, NO ANSWERS! Any tips welcome

Postby Drache613 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:23 am

Hello,

Poor girl, that cannot be fun for her at all!
What it is probably going to be is some type of abscess (s) in or around the nasal area or
tear duct area which has clogged up the duct to the point of causing the swelling. When it
can't drain then it will swell to epic proportions.
Do you happen to have a copy of the blood test results I could look at also?
I don't think it is the eye itself, but something internal. I am doubting that treatment such as
antibiotics, etc will likely do anything at all for it if it's blocking the duct area.

She is negative for cancer so what type of mass do they think it is, a benign tumor, cyst, or an
abscess or do they not know for sure?
You could try compresses with chamomile tea bags, daily. Also, maybe consider doing some
nebulization type of treatments with sterile saline solution, to see if that helps out. Does she
have any type of respiratory infection that they have noticed?

Tracie
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Re: Multiple vets and scans, NO ANSWERS! Any tips welcome

Postby artemisia » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:39 am

UPDATE: The other eye is now swollen and crusty to the point of being shut. Hooo boy.

There was no sign of respiratory infection. Sadly, I don't have the blood results... all I know is that she was hypocalcemic and anemic. This was attributed to her being eggbound.

They don't know what the masses are. The CT scan revealed a third mass, in the nasal cavity; the initial sonogram and X-ray revealed two masses, one behind and one beside the eye. The lack of certainty is why they won't operate now.

Veterinary practice #3 speculates that it could be an infection or aneurysms. They don't think aneurysms would be operable/solvable. Veterinarian #2 thought it was a straight-up tumor/cancer. The blood cancer tests (for lymphoma and leukemia) were negative, though. Veterinarian #1 initially thought it was a routine infection; he referred me to veterinarian #2 when the swelling got worse.

(Note: all of these were exotics vets. Veterinarians #2 and #3 are specialist exotics hospitals. I've been traveling like mad.)

On Monday, I'm bringing her in for a contrast CT. Maybe, just maybe, this will reveal what the masses are. I don't like having to wait that long, though. Also, the head guy at veterinary practice #3 returns on Monday. Whether I like it or not, seems like I will have to wait.

Here's a quick rundown of everything Javi has been treated with:
1) Antibiotic eye drops (3 weeks)
2) IV antibiotic (2 injections, each 10 days apart)
3) Anti-inflammatory (shot by me directly into her mouth, which she allows, so I know she ingested it)

One more thing: Javi poo'ed on her food while at veterinary practice #3, which means they are testing for ADV and crypto. I find these to be unlikely, not who knows?

Right now, there's no medication/treatment being administered. All I can do is clean/steam the eyes and freak out, lol.
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Re: Multiple vets and scans, NO ANSWERS! Any tips welcome

Postby AHBD » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:49 am

Aw, I'm so sorry that you guys are going through this and now the other eye is involved. These would not be related to crypto or ADV but hopefully she has neither. Have you thought about trying the honey ?
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Re: Multiple vets and scans, NO ANSWERS! Any tips welcome

Postby artemisia » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:55 am

Speak of the devil! I just picked up some honey. I figure it can't hurt, lol.

Part of me wants to call vet #3, and tell them Javi's other eye is increasingly swollen... but I don't think we'll make any headway until Monday. Ayyyy.
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Re: Multiple vets and scans, NO ANSWERS! Any tips welcome

Postby Drache613 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:03 am

Hello,

It definitely wont hurt to try the raw honey, it is very effective against all types of infections.
I really hope that they can figure out what is causing this. It likely wont reduce in size without
them figuring out exactly what it is, especially if it's an abscess because they continuously drain.
I am sorry you are having to go through this, poor girl.

Keep us posted on how she is doing.
Tracie
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Re: Multiple vets and scans, NO ANSWERS! Any tips welcome

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:05 am

artemisia wrote:
HerpGirl wrote::shock: :shock:OMG!!!! That's crazy! What substrate do you use? What do you feed her?


I don't use substrate, only mats (you know, the green/brown mats from PetCo), because Javi is a sloppy eater. Her idea of "hunting" involves smashing the prey into the ground, repeatedly. Inevitable impaction!

Javi will only eat hornworms and silkworms. She will never, ever eat a cricket, not even if I freeze them, kill them first, mutilate them, tongs, whatever. Like I said, she's a diva. She also likes swiss chard and arugula. She will violently attack any other green I present her with. Once, I gave her bok choy, and she poo'ed on it instantly. Glorious.

AHBD wrote:if there are any alternatives to surgery or if they will 100 % need to do it.


Right now, vet #3 says there's insufficient information for surgery. They don't know if surgery is even an option. This is why they're banking on a contrast CT, to show them what the damn thing is (aneurysm, cancer, whatever). I'm told that if it's an aneurysm, they probably won't operate.

tl;dr Until they can figure out what the masses are, no surgery will be performed.

I'll definitely try the honey thing! Recently I've been using warm/wet cotton rounds as compresses, to clean things up a bit.


I think this is well and truly way past being treatable using honey.

If the diagnosis is an aneurism , make sure the vet takes steps to harvest and save a fair volume of her blood for the transfusions she will need when they are repairing the aneurism else the surgery will be too risky.
If it's growth in the eyesocket, the eye will have to be removed. There was a lady here who had a dragon with a similar issue , turned out it was cancer and radical surgery was done.
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Re: Multiple vets and scans, NO ANSWERS! Any tips welcome

Postby AHBD » Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:22 am

No one said an aneurysm is treatable by using honey but if there's infection involved it can have a dramatic affect like it did on my dragon. No one says the honey will work on this dragon's eye but wer'e looking for ANY possible hep until the vets figure out what to do. Honey is one thing that is good to try.
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Re: Multiple vets and scans, NO ANSWERS! Any tips welcome

Postby Drache613 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:12 pm

Hello,

Please keep us updated on your girl.
Have any of the vets mentioned a nasal wash with an antimicrobial agent such as gentamicin,
etc to help in case it is an abscess which is infected?

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Re: Multiple vets and scans, NO ANSWERS! Any tips welcome

Postby artemisia » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:52 pm

UPDATE: Javi's other eye continues to swell. It's noticeably bugging out, and leaks a clear, viscous fluid, in addition to brown crusty gunk along the eyelids. Steaming and cleaning (with or without honey) cleans the area, and her eyes open up, but within a few hours, the gunk returns. She continues to poop and eat, although she's been more lethargic these past few days. I've been dragging her out in the cold for vet appointments pretty much every weekend since January; despite all my precautions, I'm wondering if so much exposure is causing her to slow down. The other, grislier explanation would be that her condition is catching up to her.

Vet #2 contacted me (he's away on teaching assignment). I told him about Javi's CT scan results, and he delivered a grim prognosis: if the masses are tumors or aneurysms, they will be inoperable. Hopefully, on Monday, we'll know if they are tumors or aneurysms.

A nasal wash did come up when I met with Vet #3, who was speculating about a possible fungal infection. Who knows, though.
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