Something is just not right

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Can someone help with looking at my dragons bloodwork? It was done the beginning of January so I know things can change. I am most concerned about the calcium to phosphorus levels.
I posted here Jan 24th and was recommended to change to an Acadia T5 HO reflector fixture and bulb. My guy's right eye is swollen and he appears to not see his food. Since changes in his lights he is walking now compared to not, though still left hind leg turning in. He was fed some Dubia Roaches and tolerated them ok.
I had him to the vet on Tuesday and was told his eye was clear and healthy, no discharge or tears or scratches. It actually is the part above his eye.
From January 18, when he weighed 750 grams, he is now down to 710. I explained how he would walk right through his greens and not eat unless I held the food on my hand. The vet attributes that to him now walking more and that he was obese before. But, seriously that seems like a very large amount of weight to lose.

I have been reading a lot about calcium and vitamin D3 and I am worried that is were the problem lies. I was told his level was on the high end of normal. A 3/1 ratio with calcium/phosphorus.
Today, I tried to get him to eat or drink and he doesn't want to. And I am thinking back again how it seems like he looks at the food but does eat. He seems so skinny to me and not in a good weight.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi there, can you post some full body pics of your dragon ? Anything over 700 grams is a lot of weight unless he's over 23" or so. It's not that you want him to lose a lot of weight very quickly though, so if there's some medical problem you do want to now. BTW it's very common for them to walk through their food if they're not interested, lots of dragons do that. Post his blood test results as well. Here's how to post pics :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the ximg to upload
 

CooperDragon

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Can you post images of him and images of his blood test results? As far as I know, you want the Calcium to be somewhere around 8.6-27.2mg/dl and Phosphorous to be around 3.5-9.8mg/dl Also, 710g is a very large dragon (my adult is around 500g for reference) and a 40g drop is not a huge amount, especially if it's just a drop rather than a continuing downward trend.
 

Amuseismom

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So the close up is to point out the difference in his eyes, with the right one being swollen.
The picture of him lying flat, can you notice a difference in his hand color? He had a big shed a few weeks ago but his hands are a lighter shade.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
He's a fine looking big boy, a bit overweight but quite a stocky build. He looks thin to you because there's a bit of exscess skin when an animal or person that is obese loses some weight. Do you know his length ? As for the eye, it's hard to see because the right side is in the dark. I can see a faint outline of it , maybe just a tad bigger than the left eye.

The Ca + phosphorus are normal and I didn't scan everything but the WBC + AST look fine. Your boy is not hungry, he is very large and they can go a long time without food at that size. His foot has just not shed, that's no problem. Most dragons have lingering uneven sheds, esp. adults. Look at this one of mine :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/media/29897/full
 

Amuseismom

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Thank you for putting my mind at ease. Yes looking back through pictures I can see he was heavy and the lose skin makes him look even skinnier to me. I believe he is 16". His tail was like that when we got him. Thanks for sharing the picture of yours. His hands probably have always done that but because I am trying to figure things out I notice them more.

So when he began sliding off his basking rock and rolling on his back and then his eye the vet recommended removing the rock and replacing it with something soft. The only thing I could come up with was the small couch pillow he is on.

But I was thinking back to when everything started, sometime in October and it began with me changing his lights. We have a 40 gallon. He had his T8 sitting on the screen, his 100 watt basking light in a 5 1/2 " mini dome and then the red light also in a mini dome. I ordered new domes and in error ordered the clamp dome. I switch both lights and used those. It was then that I noticed he would get his black beard and belly. I started reviewing the temps and cool side between. 70-75, but his basking temps were weird...they got too hot, around 116°. I even ordered a new probe thermometer and an infrared laser gun thermometer. Was getting same high readings. Previously he was good at right around 98°. So I switched to a 75 watt and then it was too cool. Around 86-90. I even swich from Zoo Med which we generally use and tried ExoTerra and had similar readings. Weird. So I went out and got two new mini domes and a CHE since by that I had read enough about how bad the red lights were. I have no idea why I didn't research more on the red lights and instead went on advice from the pet stores. So resorted to getting a lamp stand and keep the light up enough so that it is around 95-98°.

I changed his T8 and put it over his tank without the screen and ordered the Acadia T5 HO reflector and bulb. We had thought about up grading his tank to a bigger size and so I ordered the 34", but obviously that is all on hold.

Here is my thing. When he is out of his house he seems fine. Walking around like he had never stopped for several months until recommendations from here prompted me to get the new UVB bulb and CHE. Inside his house, in the morning he gets up and seems fine, goes and sits on his pillow and just stares at the wall. I put his food in then after smelling his food, maybe sticking his tongue out he walks by and goes up on his pillow. He is black a lot of the time. If I come over and talk to him he seems to get a smidge better by lifting his head of the pillow. If I take him out he is fine.

So my thoughts. . . Well maybe I will provide all this and wait for suggestions since whatever I am doing isn't working and my poor guy is waiting on someone to help me.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
I think he'll be O.K. It takes time to get over the possible effects from lack of uvb and he's been on different meds. that may have added to his lack of appetite and stress from meds. being given day after day. Just keep him on a low basking area like you're doing, don't feed him much protein, let him lose a little more weight and keep him well hydrated . Many dragons go through periods where they don't eat much so that in itself is not indicative of a health problem. Let him roam outside the tank every day for strength + mobility training but keep an eye on him. Pulling for the big boy ! :)
 

Amuseismom

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Original Poster
Today I back tracked to how things were before all this started and decided that I needed to make him feel as comfortable as possible. I put his basking rock back in, but thinking I may remove it tomorrow after what you said. I don't want to have him fall and get hurt. He was on there for a long time and looked like his normal self. I was worried about him getting down and of course I left the room and he got down. I hope he managed ok.

While waiting on the T5 HO to get delivered I had taken off the screen and placed the T8 across the top. Not sure I mentioned that he did not seem to react well to the T5 HO. So I was thinking of how I would walk by and he would scrunch down and then I thought he probably feels very vulnerable without that screen. So for the time being I have the T5 TO on top of the screen. In my thinking I figure it is stronger than what he had before and having it inside at this point, well I feel he needs to get settled and back to feeling better and then I can change it.
I have found different places that I read the T5 TO should be placed on top of the screen.

So stay away from protein, so no Dubia roaches? We had just started giving him those. He ate crickets when he was younger like crazy and then decided he didn't like them. So I was giving him the dried up ones. Occasionally Phoenix worms or hornworms. Seldom but as a treat superworms. I have seen mention of silkworms but not sure if those are high in protein.

I will keep offering greens and he just decides to walk on through them I won't worry as much. He was much to heavy and I think in just watching him walk outside his tank he is doing well. His leg just kinda of rolls and he just kind of goes with it. Hopefully the change in UVB light will heal him.
Thanks for your words of advice and responding back.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
It's O.K for the t5 to be on top of the screen if the screen is not the fine mesh like we have in our windows. This type of screen here allows plenty of uvb through :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/media/29906/full

He still needs protein so fine to feed him dubias but just a few at a time about twice a week or maybe one a day for a while. And if he likes his baskig rock you might just put something next to it that's slightly lower to act as a ramp to his rock. Can you post a pic of his set up ? Also a close up of the screen like I have in my picture ?
 

Amuseismom

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103024-8059413177.jpg
103024-1871306417.jpg

This is Amusei earlier this morning. He seemed happy to see his rock back. He did get down off from it twice, both times he did ok and took it slowly. He was out for a short walk and my son suggested a bath, this is the only way he will go to the bathroom since he was little and we thought he was impacted and the vet suggested a bath everyday. I think he just thought that was how every beardie did it. I swear he walked right begin me and followed knowing what I was going to do. Sure enough he went. Not really formed and the urate was like two pieces, one soft and the other hard. Is it calcium that causes that?

Anyway, he sat in his house and tried to eat. It is weird, he goes over and it is like he tries to get something but his tongue is right above the food so he misses. This has been his norm for the last few weeks. I have then taken and held his bowl up sideways or he ate some off my hand. This appears to have started around when his eye was swollen. The vet didn't feel his eye had anything to do with it, but said if it continues it could be neurological.

I decided that while he is out walking around and he seems to be doing well, I think we feel better putting him on the pillow again. Just to be safe. Especially if the T5 is going thru the screen then I think he will only continue to improve.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
It sounds like he's doing better already and yes, the screen is good , it's much better than the tight screen that some tops are made of that are almost like a window screen. The uvb will get through that screen you have quite well. Now that you have a good strong uvb he should start improving. :) Good to hear that he's happy to have his rock back. Once he's doing a little better you might consider a larger tank for him but it's good that you let him out to roam around a bit. :)
 

Amuseismom

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Thank you for all your help!! I am glad to hear I can use that light on top of the screen. It is so much lighter and not bulky like the T8 and much much better for him. He has just been sitting on the pillow we decided to put back in for a short time, but I think he is going to be fine. Yes, a new and bigger house is definitely needed. We have been looking and there are some nicely built ones. Zen habit seems to be the ones we like best. But no decision made yet. That will be for down the road.
 

KarrieRee

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Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
I have a Zen Habitat and I like it -- the only thing I did w/ it was put in slated tile as the bamboo makes for a slippery floor - so you can also think of that when deciding what you want -- you can also use non adhesive shelf liner as well -- just a thought -- here is a pic of Hiccups tank I have since moved the UVB in front of the basking rock and added floral stuff --
97951-1410759176.jpg
Karrie
 

Amuseismom

Member
Original Poster
Hiccup has such a nice home and I like the idea of the stated tile. You did a nice job with getting Hiccups house set up right. Hiccup is an adorable name ?
 
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