GOUT? , Not active and changing eating habits

This forum is for urgent health concerns, where your beardie seems very ill and you need immediate help!

GOUT? , Not active and changing eating habits

Postby Pantalaimon » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:17 am

My 8 Month bearded dragon Pan has not been himself the last week, he is usually very active but instead has been lethargic and has a complete decrease in appetite. I've had him since he was 3 months old and have never noticed him doing this behavior.

He doesn't seem to be walking properly but instead crawling around, he did have a large poo 2 days ago but he was displaying this behavior before then so i'm not sure its impaction. He has also had a very unusual appetite which changes each day, he had one day when he ate nothing at all and then yesterday he ate 30 dubia roaches whilst today he is once again back to not wanting to eat.

his basking spot is 40c which he usually basks on all day but today when i got home from university i noticed he was laid right in the corner of his cool side.

i use an exo terra 100 watt basking light and the arcadia D3 reptile 12% UVB output tube light across his 4 ft tank, which i recently lowered closer to his basking spot (about 6 inches away as i realized for the last 2 weeks its been a little too far away from him)

so i was wondering if this could be impaction, or a sign of MBD because of the light being too far away and whether you would recommend taking him to the vets
I can add pictures once i figure out how.Is it possible that he could have gout his diet largley consists of dubia roaches and the occasional spring greens (if i can force it down him) and hopppers

Thanks
Last edited by Pantalaimon on Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Pantalaimon
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:56 pm
- Advertisement -
- Advertisement -

Re: Unusual Behavior, Not active and changing eating habits

Postby KarrieRee » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:20 am

go to top of page click on user image uploader - down load pics- when posting click on reply and at top of message box click on XIMG and it will post
Karrie
KarrieRee
Gray-bearded Poster
 
Posts: 1697
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:24 am

Re: Unusual Behavior, Not active and changing eating habits

Postby Pantalaimon » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:50 am

[Click image to enlarge]
[Click image to enlarge]
[Click image to enlarge]
[Click image to enlarge]

Hopefully this has worked but these are some pictures of him in his bath a few moments ago, he did got to the toilet but when i put him back in the cage he seemed to stumble/ crawl back to his basking spot which is so unlike him
Pantalaimon
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:56 pm

Re: GOUT? , Not active and changing eating habits

Postby Drache613 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:15 am

Hello,

It looks like he is developing some swelling. Which UVB source are you using for him from Arcadia,
the T8 or the T5 12%? That makes a difference. Well, you mentioned it was 6 inches away from
him now, so you must have the T8?
He could have developed some calcium issues from the light being too far from him so he isn't
absorbing his calcium properly. It sounds like you have remedied that problem right now.
Is the tube bulb on top of, or underneath of the screen top?
You can start giving some black cherry extract to help with his kidneys, in case they are having
some trouble. I would watch the swelling carefully to be sure it doesn't get worse. If it starts getting
worse, I would try to get a blood test done on him, to test for uric acid levels.
If you can get extra oral fluids into him also, that would be helpful as well as lowering his dubia
roaches to minimum for a while to help in case his kidneys are having a hard time.

Tracie
User avatar
Drache613
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 37792
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:33 pm
Location: May, Texas

Re: GOUT? , Not active and changing eating habits

Postby Pantalaimon » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:02 am

Drache613 wrote:Hello,

It looks like he is developing some swelling. Which UVB source are you using for him from Arcadia,
the T8 or the T5 12%? That makes a difference. Well, you mentioned it was 6 inches away from
him now, so you must have the T8?
He could have developed some calcium issues from the light being too far from him so he isn't
absorbing his calcium properly. It sounds like you have remedied that problem right now.
Is the tube bulb on top of, or underneath of the screen top?
You can start giving some black cherry extract to help with his kidneys, in case they are having
some trouble. I would watch the swelling carefully to be sure it doesn't get worse. If it starts getting
worse, I would try to get a blood test done on him, to test for uric acid levels.
If you can get extra oral fluids into him also, that would be helpful as well as lowering his dubia
roaches to minimum for a while to help in case his kidneys are having a hard time.

Tracie

yes I believe it is a T8 I bought it start of Jan but I have terrible memory but I've just gone back on the website I've bought it from and it took me back to the page for the T8's. Out of curiosity thought what the difference between the two.
his tube light is in his cage I don't have a screen top just a wooden cage with lots of vents.
I'm currently at the vets waiting to take him in, but in terms of the cherry extract what dosage is that and can I just get that at a super market?
He's 8 months old so in terms of lowering his dubia roaches would you offer other feeders instead or just put him on salad from now on if this turns out to be gout?

Thank you for your help
Pantalaimon
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:56 pm

Re: GOUT? , Not active and changing eating habits

Postby Pantalaimon » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:49 am

UPDATE AFTER VETS: turns out Pans a girl, i couldn't believe it. I rescued her and was told she was a boy and her being 18 inches at this age made me not question it haha.
The vet said that there doesn't seem to be any swelling and has asked for a poo sample just to double check for parasites, in terms of her being lethargic in her viv she had a whole different personalty at the vets trying to run about.
Pantalaimon
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:56 pm

Re: GOUT? , Not active and changing eating habits

Postby Drache613 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:07 pm

Hello,

So he is a she, that happens a lot!
No swelling then, or puffiness? It appears that way a little in the pictures on the hands, is she
getting ready to shed those areas? They can look a little swollen right before a shed is why I
was asking about shedding.
If you wanted to have a stronger UVB exposure, the T5 tube bulb is much stronger & it does
last longer as well.
If you wanted to use some black or tart cherry extract, you can use it full strength from a .5ml to
1ml daily. You could dilute it with water also to give extra oral fluids in case her kidneys might
be having a little bit of trouble.
Doing a fecal is a good idea, to check for worms or parasites. How is she doing today?
Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie
User avatar
Drache613
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 37792
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:33 pm
Location: May, Texas

Re: GOUT? , Not active and changing eating habits

Postby Pantalaimon » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:34 am

The vet says no swelling, she's always been a little chunky in the limbs I think. thank you for all you help, she's been a lot better. I discovered the other day that her scales are catching a little on the reptile carpet I bought to other week and believe that's why she's not wanted to move around so much in her viv as when I get her out she's back to her usual self jumping up on people's knees and begging for attention , I'm taking it out today and putting back in her brown paper until I can afford some tiles. I've also got her some silk worms as a treat for being good at the vets so I'm hoping she likes them as she's never had them before. I don't believe shes shedding she actually hasn't shed in quite a while her arms where last to shed and that was about 3 weeks ago
Pantalaimon
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:56 pm
- Advertisement -
- Advertisement -

Re: GOUT? , Not active and changing eating habits

Postby Drache613 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:21 am

Hello,

No problem at all! Some do have a more muscular build in their limbs but it's good that you
are keeping an eye on her though.
Oh maybe the carpet was too rough on her then? That's too bad, but at least you caught that
behavior & are changing the substrate out. The brown butcher's paper is easy to use & is a
neutral color which looks nice. The tiles are very easy to keep clean so you will love using
them once you get them put in.
I'm sure that she will love the silkworms, most of them tend to!

Tracie
User avatar
Drache613
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 37792
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:33 pm
Location: May, Texas

Re: GOUT? , Not active and changing eating habits

Postby Pantalaimon » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:28 pm

Drache613 wrote:Hello,

No problem at all! Some do have a more muscular build in their limbs but it's good that you
are keeping an eye on her though.
Oh maybe the carpet was too rough on her then? That's too bad, but at least you caught that
behavior & are changing the substrate out. The brown butcher's paper is easy to use & is a
neutral color which looks nice. The tiles are very easy to keep clean so you will love using
them once you get them put in.
I'm sure that she will love the silkworms, most of them tend to!

Tracie


Back again, Pans still concerning me slightly, the vet did say he didn't notice any swelling and when I get her out she does do little runs and then flops to the floor but in her viv she still is reluctant to actually walk and instead pushes her self around with her back legs, occasionally using her front legs but never actually standing up. I'm used to her running around her viv.

I don't know what to do really, I've lowered her UV light and all her temps are fine, she's still eating normally some days and then eating absolutely nothing other days.

when I took her fecal test to the vets the other day they wanted to charge me £70, my mum made me look for an alternative testing lab to see if it's cheaper but I don't know whether to just pay the £70 now and get her results asap. are they usually this expensive?

think I'm going to get her some black cherry extract just incase her legs are in fact swollen and I might get her a blood test? How much are these normally? I'm a university student and I do have a job and a loan but I can't really afford hundreds of pounds. is there any natural things I could do if it was calcium deficiency?

thanks again
Pantalaimon
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:56 pm

Re: GOUT? , Not active and changing eating habits

Postby Drache613 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:14 am

Hello,

Are you in the UK? They should have a liquid calcium available there but can't remember the
brand off hand but can look for you. What calcium do you use now?
Can you get the Arcadia D3 12% tube at a 6 inch distance from her?
The black cherry extract can help naturally lower uric acid & so can alfalfa powder too. I do
think there are a few issues going on, but if you take the initiative as you are doing you should
be able to get things fixed. I would say it is probably low UVB output possibly from it being too
far from her. She might not be absorbing her calcium properly so we can start eliminating
possibilities first. Since she may be developing gout, you can reduce her dubias to 25-30
per week, but give plenty of greens & veggies. You could supplement some with a worm
type variety such as a silkworm or hornworm perhaps.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie
User avatar
Drache613
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 37792
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:33 pm
Location: May, Texas

Re: GOUT? , Not active and changing eating habits

Postby Pantalaimon » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:30 am

Drache613 wrote:Hello,

Are you in the UK? They should have a liquid calcium available there but can't remember the
brand off hand but can look for you. What calcium do you use now?
Can you get the Arcadia D3 12% tube at a 6 inch distance from her?
The black cherry extract can help naturally lower uric acid & so can alfalfa powder too. I do
think there are a few issues going on, but if you take the initiative as you are doing you should
be able to get things fixed. I would say it is probably low UVB output possibly from it being too
far from her. She might not be absorbing her calcium properly so we can start eliminating
possibilities first. Since she may be developing gout, you can reduce her dubias to 25-30
per week, but give plenty of greens & veggies. You could supplement some with a worm
type variety such as a silkworm or hornworm perhaps.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie


yes I'm in the UK, so I can buy calcium somewhere without having to get it from the vets? that's great if I can I'll have a look. In terms of black cherry extract I could only find capsules and black cherry concentrate. yeah I believe it's got to be something to do with calcium surely parasites wouldn't cause her to struggle walking. My only problem is she doesn't want anything to do with her salad again and surprisingly she's not too crazy about the silk worms, any tricks to get her to eat her salad I keep mixing her up but she's not bothered. Also in terms of calcium I use now I have vetark calci-dust which is what a usually use 5 times a week, sometimes I use the zoo med repti calcium with D3 every now and then, I also have the komodo calcium dusting powder on spare .

Thank you so much
Pantalaimon
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:56 pm

Re: GOUT? , Not active and changing eating habits

Postby Drache613 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:11 pm

Hello,

Ok, great. Yes, you should be able to purchase liquid calcium online, or used to in the UK.
Those two options of black cherry both the liquid & the powder are great choices. So, either
one you would like to get is fine.
Let me know if you have trouble finding the calcium online. I know that they have been changing
things around on the internet a lot so it might be harder to find in the UK.
How is she doing today?
Oh she doesn't like the silkworms or salad? You can try mincing up tiny pieces of fruit or brightly
colored peppers to go into her greens/salad. Your dusting schedule sounds good. The problems
are probably going to be simply due to not enough UVB because of the distance. You have
already moved the light closer, correct? Remember it does take a little bit of time for them to start
getting better anytime you make any changes.
For now, you could continue on your calcium use since you have moved the light closer & see if
she starts making some improvement. If she does, then that was likely the primary cause & the
slight puffiness that I see should improve. She will probably have an improved appetite as well
as become more active, too.

Tracie
User avatar
Drache613
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 37792
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:33 pm
Location: May, Texas

Re: GOUT? , Not active and changing eating habits

Postby Pantalaimon » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:24 am

Drache613 wrote:Hello,

Ok, great. Yes, you should be able to purchase liquid calcium online, or used to in the UK.
Those two options of black cherry both the liquid & the powder are great choices. So, either
one you would like to get is fine.
Let me know if you have trouble finding the calcium online. I know that they have been changing
things around on the internet a lot so it might be harder to find in the UK.
How is she doing today?
Oh she doesn't like the silkworms or salad? You can try mincing up tiny pieces of fruit or brightly
colored peppers to go into her greens/salad. Your dusting schedule sounds good. The problems
are probably going to be simply due to not enough UVB because of the distance. You have
already moved the light closer, correct? Remember it does take a little bit of time for them to start
getting better anytime you make any changes.
For now, you could continue on your calcium use since you have moved the light closer & see if
she starts making some improvement. If she does, then that was likely the primary cause & the
slight puffiness that I see should improve. She will probably have an improved appetite as well
as become more active, too.

Tracie


I ended up getting the liquid in the end and mixing it with some water before putting it in a syringe, i tried dripping it on her nose but she just gave me the worlds dirtiest look so my new tactic is to give her a bug and then drop some in her mouth when shes eating it. She really hates the stuff :lol: i might need to dilute it a bit more because she just pulls a disgusted face, but yesterday she managed to get up long enough to waddle to the glass to give me a dirty look and then today shes plodded around a bit and even jumped on to her basking spot which is a great improvement. I think i found some clacivet liquid calcium that i can get online. Finally, should i be concerned that she only spends about 2 hours at at time basking and then gets up the bury her face in her blanket at the cold side of her cage, she does bask several times throughout the day but seems to be favouring the cooler side at the minute. Her temps are fine i measure with a gun.
Pantalaimon
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:56 pm

Re: GOUT? , Not active and changing eating habits

Postby Drache613 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:25 am

Hello,

That is fine, the liquid is very effective. She didn't like it? LOL It is so funny when they make
faces of disgust, like you are trying to poison her or something. Just dilute it a bit so it's not as
strong for her. I hope it helps her out.
The calcivet is or should be an item you can get online in your area. It is used quite a bit. It
sounds like she might be starting to feel a little better.
They will often go from their cool area to the basking area several times a day. She does need
to bask at least 4-6 hours a day in order to get adequate UVB & heat, too.
Keep us posted on her.

Tracie
User avatar
Drache613
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 37792
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:33 pm
Location: May, Texas
- Advertisement -
- Advertisement -

Next

Return to Beardie ER

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: daniellesweet, Google Adsense [Bot], Mochipanda