HELP high calcium in bloodwork

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HELP high calcium in bloodwork

Postby RockyTurner » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:20 pm

Info on Roxy- she is 1 year and 4 months old. She was diagnosed with gout as a baby, and has to stay on Allopurinol. I have used this website to help make sure that I have proper set up, diet, lighting... of course things are a little different because of the gout.
PLEASE HELP! If any of you have any knowledge on what to do if your dragon has way too much calcium.
I took Roxy to the vet today because her back legs seemed almost paralyzed instead of just trembling when she moved them. I have been getting help regarding this issue on another thread “giving Allopurinol for gout during Brumation.” He did take X-rays and they did not show impaction or eggs.
Her Cacium >16. The vet did not have an explanation, but said to definitely not give anymore calcium and to try to flush her kidneys with the veggie liquid I feed her, and give lots of soaks which I already do for the gout. He also said that he did a smear when he drew her blood, and that her white blood cells showed septicemia. He said that since it is in her white blood cells, she is trying to fight it. He said that this is only the second time he has seen this in a reptile. He knows that I am super careful and keep her and her viv very clean. She did have a fecal check just a few months ago and everything looked good. He sent me home with liquid Baytril to be given once a day at .15 ML for 14 days.
He said she still may not make it and that this is complicated because of her heriditary gout.
PLEASE HELP if you have any advice. I love this lizard so much. [img][XIMG]98215%205517179724[/XIMG][/img]
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Re: HELP high calcium in bloodwork

Postby AHBD » Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:07 pm

Hi there, can you post the blood panel results here ? That number is high but not incredibly so. High calcium levels can sometimes indicate that eggs are developing. They can be just follicles that don't always show up on xray. WBC should be about 16.0 -23.0 range. Be aware that Baytril itself is very harsh so you want to be sure that the vet has the absolute correct diagnosis.

Is this vet a true reptile vet ?
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Re: HELP high calcium in bloodwork

Postby RockyTurner » Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:31 pm

Thank you for responding.
This is the bloodwork panel.
I am trying to post it ....
I hit XIMG then choose the pic I uploaded on this site. It just shows the letters and numbers.
Let me know if it comes through.
From her stomach back she is ridgid. She seems to constantly be straining to poop, though she has been pooping almost daily. It is runny, but that just seems to be how she poops. I thought is was the gout, like I said I had her fecal done just to make sure there were no parasites.
Going to try bloodwork imag again now.
[img][/[Click image to enlarge]
img]
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Re: HELP high calcium in bloodwork

Postby AHBD » Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:38 pm

I don't see anything too off there, glucose slightly + calcium slightly. Nothing on the WBC here though.

BTW, did her legs get weak after she started the Metacam ? Just a thought, it does have side effects but with proper dosing it should not cause trouble. And one more thing, is your MVB a Powersun by Zoomed or a Solar glo by Exo terra ? How far is it from her ?
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Re: HELP high calcium in bloodwork

Postby RockyTurner » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:10 pm

It is a 100 W Zoo Med PowerSun Mercury Vapor UVB lamp. I just bought new ones 1-6-19 when the others where used for 6 months.
I have had her back on Metacam for a week. I have been giving .1 ml. She is 345 g.
I started the Metacam because I thought her gout was causing her to not want to walk. She seemed to have an episode of swelling in her feet and toes. This was how I got it under control during her initial onset.
Then two days ago I noticed slight trembling in her back legs. She did not want me to touch them. I researched and saw that it could be from pain. Then today when she started dragging them, keeping them almost rigid behind her with her tail limp, I freaked out. Grabbed her up and drove her an hour away to my exotic vet. He is the one there who did study reptiles though he admitted he doesn’t see as many bearded dragons as other exotics. He also said that he has not treated too many dragons for gout, especially ones so young.
He said that he saw the septice in the white blood cells when he did the smear.?.? I asked him if I should probably stop the Metacam, and he did say yes.
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Re: HELP high calcium in bloodwork

Postby RockyTurner » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:08 pm

I took some pictures of her tonight.
[Click image to enlarge]
[Click image to enlarge]
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Re: HELP high calcium in bloodwork

Postby Drache613 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:13 pm

Hello,

I agree, 16 on calcium isn't terribly high.
So no eggs were seen on the x-ray, or a tumor, etc? Another possibility is dysfunction of the
parathyroid glad causing it to release too much calcium into the body.
The Powersun MVB is a decent bulb, but, not terribly strong. You could actually get a tube bulb
to use in combination with it to be sure she is getting adequate UVB exposure.
They can get high calcium readings from improper absorption of calcium. The body overcompensates on the amount in the blood by releasing calcium stores from the bones in an attempt to maintain the
homeostasis levels of calcium. That can sometimes cause very high readings on the test.
Did the bones look good on the x-rays?
The bile acids were a bit high so the liver may be taxed simply from any infection she has. I would
be careful giving the Baytril if she does have renal dysfunction from gout, already.
It didn't look like her beard was dark in the pictures, has it been normal colored?

Let us know how she is doing.
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Re: HELP high calcium in bloodwork

Postby RockyTurner » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:28 pm

This afternoon when she went from straining to poop to rolling over and panicking when it seemed things just got worse very quickly. She was breathing hard, wanting me to hold her. Her beard got black then... knowing what that means in a situation like that, it scared the crap out of me.
She has more of a tremble tonight in the flank/back leg area. I want her in her viv under the light, but she really wants to snuggle me. I gave her several soaks this evening. And gave her some of her smoothie with the new grass trio, carrots, sweet potatoe, cantaloupe, beet greens and water.
How do I decide to go ahead and give her the Baytril or not. He said that he thought the septice was probably caused by salmonella or something I had never heard of- he said this other thing was super rare.
I will definitely get her a tube light. What do you recommend? Do I make sure that she gets her 10-12 hours of UVB light? It is still too cold here to go outside.
He said the X-rays looked good. I can call tomorrow and get them sent to me to post.
I am so scared I am going to lose her. She is NOT her chipper, energetic, hungry self.
Last edited by RockyTurner on Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HELP high calcium in bloodwork

Postby kingofnobbys » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:36 am

The active ingredient in Metacam is Meloxicam and is used for the alleviation of inflammation and pain in both acute and chronic musculoskeletal disorders (developed for use with dogs). It's not helping her septice at all.

If there no inflammation , and the calcium levels are relatively OK, I'd be stopping the Metacam and asking the vet to prescribe a suitable antibiotic based on the sensitivity of the germs in her blood stream. This needs to started promptly iMO.

I can't add much here other than if she's has septice ,
https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/sepsis-septicaemia
she needs to be getting proper antibiotic treatment to help her fight the infection that is poisoning her blood.

Can you tell us where you are located , we might be able to locate a herp / reptile vet nearby who can review this and get her onto an effective treatment regime .
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : new rescues Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, juvenile Cheakie (M) 21Oct19
Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
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Re: HELP high calcium in bloodwork

Postby RockyTurner » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:43 am

I just want her to be okay. We live about an hour outside of Austin, Texas. He said the Septice in her blood is what he was worried about. He did say that since he saw it IN her white blood cells, that she is trying to fight it.
I have read that getting her on Reptiboost and a probiotic would be good. Can any of you recommend the best probiotic?
We have another dragon who we got at the same time as her a little over a year ago. He is a healthy guy, but his personality is not like my little smart person lizard, Roxy❤️
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Re: HELP high calcium in bloodwork

Postby kingofnobbys » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:44 am

RockyTurner wrote:This afternoon when she went from straining to poop to rolling over and panicking when it seems thing just got worse very quickly. She was breathing hard, wanting me to hold her. Her beard got black then... knowing what that means in a situation like that, it scared the crap out of me.
She has more of a tremble tonight in the flank/back leg area. I want her in her viv under the light, but she really wants to snuggle me. I gave her several soaks this evening. And gave her some of her smoothie with the new grass trio, carrots, sweet potatoe, cantaloupe, beet greens and water.
How do I decide to go ahead and give her the Baytril or not. He said that he thought the septice was probably caused by salmonella or something I had never heard of- he said this other thing was super rare.
I will definitely get her a tube light. What do you recommend? Do I make sure that she gets her 10-12 hours of UVB light? It is still too cold here to go outside.
<<< is she getting less than 10 hours UV per day now ?
<<< I'd nudge that up to 14 -15 hours UV per day , even 16 hours per day.

He said the X-rays looked good. I can call tomorrow and get them sent to me to post.
I am so scared I am going to lose her. She is NOT her chipper, energetic, hungry self.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : new rescues Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, juvenile Cheakie (M) 21Oct19
Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
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Re: HELP high calcium in bloodwork

Postby RockyTurner » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:50 am

He did perscribe Baytril. She got her first dose this evening.
She is under her UVB light for about 10-12 hours. She is outside of her viv with me for about 4. She sits in the window or next to me under a daylight bulb for warmth. She is very social and likes to come out of her house.
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Re: HELP high calcium in bloodwork

Postby kingofnobbys » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:56 am

RockyTurner wrote:I just want her to be okay. We live about an hour outside of Austin, Texas. He said the Septice in her blood is what he was worried about. He did say that since he saw it IN her white blood cells, that she is trying to fight it.
I have read that getting her on Reptiboost and a probiotic would be good. Can any of you recommend the best probiotic?
We have another dragon who we got at the same time as her a little over a year ago. He is a healthy guy, but his personality is not like my little smart person lizard, Roxy❤️


I just did a search for herp/reptile vets inside 100 miles of Austin Tx on the ARAV site and found these vets

Kristen Turner
2509 W Pecan St
Pflugerville
Texas 78660-3243
512-6705400

Pat Richardson
8221 Broadway St
San Antonio
Texas 78209-1919
210-824-7481

Rob L. Coke
3903 N Saint Marys St
San Antonio
Texas 78212-3173
210-734-7184

Whitney Miller
654 Richland Hills Dr
San Antonio
Texas 78245-2149
210-8191785

J J. Heatley
College of Veterinary Medicine 4474 Tamu
College Station
Texas 77843-0001
(979) 845-1202

Agnes E. Rupley
111 Rock Prairie Rd
College Station
Texas 77845-8342
979-6964411

https://arav.site-ym.com/search/newsearch.asp

I don't how far they are from you, but surely one of them is handy , as I believe Austin is well served with highways.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : new rescues Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, juvenile Cheakie (M) 21Oct19
Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
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Re: HELP high calcium in bloodwork

Postby RockyTurner » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:19 am

Thank you very much for looking those up. I will check back with the one in Phlugerville tomorrow. They are only an hour away, but when I was looking for an exotic vet a year ago, they couldn’t get me in for some reason. Dr Harris at North Austin Animal Hospital in Austin has been wonderful. He is super supportive and he is the one who helped me when Roxy was diagnosed with gout almost a year ago. He has never suggested anything other than trying. He said that he feels “cautiously optimistic” about this.
I am definitely open to opinions and doing things that give my girl a better chance at beating this.
Do you have any recommendations on probiotics during her treatment?
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Re: HELP high calcium in bloodwork

Postby AHBD » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:45 am

How far was the Powersun from where she would bask ? Is it on top of a screen ? I'm concerned about the lump near the base of her tail, that is almost always caused by MBD and it might be that your bulb was not in a good position to give her proper uvb . The lump appears as a dragon tries to poo and actually causes pathological fractures back there and the muscle function is lacking also due to MBD.

Don't discontinue her calcium but do get her a Reptisun 10.0 t5 or Arcadia 12 -14 % .
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