Baby beardie has coccidia 3grams , 4.5 inches

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Re: Baby beardie has coccidia 3grams , 4.5 inches

Postby PetLover2018 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:59 am

kingofnobbys wrote:
PetLover2018 wrote:
AHBD wrote:Hi there, so sorry to hear this. :( I've raised many babies and I agree with the other poster, set her up in her own tank ASAP. Here is a sample of how I used to set up the babies that I hatched, of course cage decor can vary this was just a simple set up :


https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploa ... _large.jpg

It's just a medium plastic storage tote with lights on top , the tote is short so a sick baby will not be too far from the uvb + heat.

Next, no more injections ! I'm surprised she's still alive. This vet seems clueless, baby's don't need constant painful injections along with dewormer medication. I am astounded. Next, stop the 3 baths . To add to this poor things stress + pain she is getting dunked for nothing. She will get all the nutrients + hydration from the syringe feeding. A bath every other day is fine at the most.

The sulfa drops are very harsh + will possibly damage the kidneys. Use toltrazuril instead, it's a much better anti-coccidial med. and it usually works in just 2-3 doses ! Not 3 long weeks of the other harsh stuff. Here's where to order it and it comes with dosing instructions :


http://www.beardeddragon.co/index.php?r ... uct_id=246



Hi, thanks for your reply. Im going by what the vet tells me, I brought her to a good vet, its private and people are very good, I do like to think that for the money im paying them shes getting the best treatment :( She was getting weekly injections :( AS she also had eye infection ,parasites and pin worms :/ She also seems to love her baths, and often drinks Repaboost which i thought is good.
She is in her own tank now its 3 ft, I seperated them a while ago already. Ive spent so much money on it all already tbh, is 3ft tank not enough for her? should i get the tote?
A 3 ft long long tank will work just fine and do for her for several months.
Totes/tubs are very good too and have the advantage of being cheap ,easily convertible (with an electric soldering iron and a drill-driver) - I recently converted two 120L tubs in a morning to rearing tubs , and are very easily transported and are stackable


but then ill need to get all new accessories again as mine are all screwed in her viv. Ive put up some pictures of her. Plus im in Ireland and I dont think the vet has access to that medicine.


I'd be very reluctant to make any changes to the treatment regime without first consulting an EXPERIENCE REPTILE veterinarian about this , even if means getting a second veterinarian's opinion if you are unhappy with the advice given by the current veterinarian.

Is the current / treating vet a certified & experience reptile / herp veterinarian ? as opposed to an exotics vet or general practice (pet/farm) veterinarians.
If not , maybe we can help locate a good reptile / herp veterinarian who is in reasonable driving distance from you.
I read that you are located in Ireland , this vet apparently comes highly recommended :
http://www.anapsid.org/vets/northireland.html
Michael Griffith
Jubilee Veterinary Centre
3 Jubilee Rd
Newtownards
Co. Down, BT23 4YH
UK
+44 (0) 2891 812226

Ireland is a tiny place, so he should be reachable for you. Or at least you can call him and maybe he'll refer you to a closer colleague who you are able to get to.
He may be able to advise you after consulting with your current vet over the phone or by email on the BEST WAY to move forward.

Stopping antibiotics too soon is very risky because the germs will not all be dead and the surviving germs will bloom and will now be much more drug resistant and even harder to get rid off. So this will very likely make your little sick dragon even sicker in very short order AND NOW it'll require even stronger mixes of antibiotics to be effectively treated.
I STRONGLY ADVISE you seek proper reptile veterinarian advise or a least speak to a professional pharmacist ADVISE MUST BE TAKEN FIRST , no one on this board in this thread is either a reptile / herp veterinarian or a pharmacist or health professional so take advise to stop antibiotics with extreme caution.

I've treated skinks about the same size as your little sick dragon using a combination of oral and IM antibiotics (in his case he was the victim of a cat attack who I intervened for and rescued). Incredibly tricky giving a very tiny lizard an injection safely, I was terrified of impaling him with the very fine (dietabetic style) needle everytime.


Thanks for your reply. Yeah no im not gonna stop anything but maybe just he baths.. just OD reptaboost bath.. See im not really in northern ireland, im in Dublin. The vet Im going to is an exotic vet yes :( Pixie has another app this thursday with him.. and ive sent a repeat stool sample to see whether the treatment is actually working. She gets IM injections weekly by the vet, so its not up to me to stop those. Yeah, gosh im actually very stressed because I thought i was going to get a new pet and was so excited about it, now im spending so much money and i dont even know if she will get better at all. Shes extremely LETHARGIC, but does eat baby food etc. Today her stool was actually digested which is a good sign. Thank you for your help
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Re: Baby beardie has coccidia 3grams , 4.5 inches

Postby PetLover2018 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:09 am

AHBD wrote:What type of uvb bulb do you have ? It probably is too far away. And I do admire your dedication to helping this little tyke, it's obvious that you care very much. I know you want very much to help the sweet little one. :)

BTW, if you can't figure a way to lower the uvb you might go with a low watt MVB [ mercury vapor bulb ] that gives off both heat AND uvb. You could put it in place of the basking bulb. Here's the best brand :

http://www.lightyourreptiles.com/80-wat ... -240-volt/


I just have the standard, Im not sure which uvb light this viv has, it came prebuild :/ It was in the bearded dragons starters kit, probably the standard one. Ive looked on amazon, they come as 125watt only, are they safe? I do have a thermostat but hoping it wont be too hot as i have 75watt now, its a 3 foot viv, quite small. Thanks
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Re: Baby beardie has coccidia 3grams , 4.5 inches

Postby AHBD » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:16 am

I'm afraid that would be far too hot unless you get one to set up over a plastic tote like I have pictured. Would you be able to do that ?

And no, stopping the injections and 3 weeks of harsh meds. may be the best thing you could do, these exotic vets are just guessing at how to treat tiny creatures weighing 3+ 4 grams. It's very well known that antibiotics damage the kidneys so using this because of eye infection which can be cured with a bit of ointment or raw honey is not good practice. Your baby is likely getting sick as much or more from the meds. as from any illness, that's why Pixie is so lethargic. It is good that she's eating the baby food though. She is a sweet little girl !

And BTW, I know how well honey works because I used it in one of my own hatchlings that was scratched while in the incubator. The eye swelled at least 3X normal size with just a little slit with pus coming out. I used a drop of honey/water 2-3 X a day + swelling was gone within a few days.


One more thing, ask your vet if he can use Baycox for the coccidia, it's another name for toltrazuril and it is used in the U.K. It's really unusual that more vets are not on to this med, it works with just 2-3 doses.
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Re: Baby beardie has coccidia 3grams , 4.5 inches

Postby PetLover2018 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:50 pm

AHBD wrote:I'm afraid that would be far too hot unless you get one to set up over a plastic tote like I have pictured. Would you be able to do that ?

And no, stopping the injections and 3 weeks of harsh meds. may be the best thing you could do, these exotic vets are just guessing at how to treat tiny creatures weighing 3+ 4 grams. It's very well known that antibiotics damage the kidneys so using this because of eye infection which can be cured with a bit of ointment or raw honey is not good practice. Your baby is likely getting sick as much or more from the meds. as from any illness, that's why Pixie is so lethargic. It is good that she's eating the baby food though. She is a sweet little girl !

And BTW, I know how well honey works because I used it in one of my own hatchlings that was scratched while in the incubator. The eye swelled at least 3X normal size with just a little slit with pus coming out. I used a drop of honey/water 2-3 X a day + swelling was gone within a few days.


One more thing, ask your vet if he can use Baycox for the coccidia, it's another name for toltrazuril and it is used in the U.K. It's really unusual that more vets are not on to this med, it works with just 2-3 doses.


Yeah I think it would be way too hot. I’m not sure, I’ll see how things go if she’s still not improving I might have to do that. Atm I actually removed the log and just have a paper towel under her and she seems to like it and temp is ok. During the day she has uv on and 75 watt intense on, and then at night she has the ceramic heat emitter with a heat mat on just in case she gets cold.

Yeah I’m using the ointment but her eyelid is still very swollen and it was actually fine before few days ago :( should the honey and the ointment? See I don’t know I’m afraid to cause any more damage to her with the honey etc cuz I don’t know whether it’s infection or what. She gets weekly naxcel injections, that’s the name of it forgot to mention it. Yeah on Thursday I will ask him about baycox or any other treatment that doesn’t require 3 weeks but see she’s already on week 2 so like changing treatment might be weird.
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Re: Baby beardie has coccidia 3grams , 4.5 inches

Postby AHBD » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:55 pm

Is the swelling of the entire eyelid ? Can you take a pic of it ? And yes, you can use the honey for it with or without the other ointment but I would use just the honey/water mix. I just used a Q-tip to soak the cotton in it + very gently apply , it takes just a drip. I did it 2-3 X a day.

And if she's been on the dewormer for 2 weeks you can get it tested ASAP because that might have knocked the coccidia out already [ hopefully ] You're a very diligent owner, I really hope Pixie pulls through. Even if she's eating a little bit, that's progress.
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Re: Baby beardie has coccidia 3grams , 4.5 inches

Postby kingofnobbys » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:07 pm

If you call the vet I gave you , they will be able to suggest a colleague based in Dublin who is actually a trained reptile / herp vet and refer you to them.

I emailed one of my international friends (in Dublin) overnight who says he taken his skinks and geckos to
Cara Veterinary Group
Unit 233
Blanchardstown Corporate Park 2
Ballycoolin, 15
Republic of Ireland
353 1 885 3253

If you decide to stop the antibiotics , I highly recommend ACTIVON MANUKA HONEY see https://store.independenceaustralia.com ... ymEALw_wcB
should be available from the local chemist.

You'll need a 14G (blunt) drawing needle and a 1ml syringe to draw some out of the tube , that can mixed with an equal volume of saline or distilled / boiled water and then applied a droplets from the syringe on the eyelid.
I find 50% manuka honey in water is fluid enough to run and spread (so will penetrate under the eyelids and behind the eyeball).
Full strength honey is too viscous and wont spread.
I used this mixture with great effect on my recent rescue skink's infected eyes, lacerated back and infected tail stump , a month later she her eyes were cleared up and the infected tail stump and lacerations healing. She's now a happy healthy and thriving little skink and has become a great pet who we call Fluffy..

Kit :
https://www.nicvape.com/blunt-tip-luer-lock-needles , 14G is best for viscous liquids like honey and will make drawing it from the tube into the syringe really easy.
Available from Ebay , or from the chemist or the vaping store.

Syringe nozzle tips are handy , I use 14G and 18G depending on the material / fluid.
https://www.amazon.com/Adhesive-Dispens ... B01JGKYG4A
I recommend 14G nozzles for VetaFarm HerpaBoost and VetaFarm Reptile CrittaCare and for pureed foods for sick reptiles.
18G is good for 50% Manuka honey in water mix (smaller droplets delivered).

A syringe cap is handy too , you will likely make up 0.5 ml of 50% honey mix and it's handy to be able store this between "doses" (in the fridge).
https://goo.gl/images/eFcRu2

I recommend this food substitute for the sick hatchling : Vetafarm Crittacare Reptile - Nutritional Support For Sick & Injured Reptiles.
https://www.vetsupply.com.au/supplement ... p2060.aspx
This is marvelous stuff and I credit it with helping me save Fluffy's life.
You'll need an 8G feeding needle to draw it from the VERY WELL SHAKEN bottle of Crittacare as the suspension is superthick and viscous.
see viewtopic.php?f=45&t=232687
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
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Re: Baby beardie has coccidia 3grams , 4.5 inches

Postby AHBD » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:29 pm

How's she doing ? Have you tried the honey by chance ?
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Re: Baby beardie has coccidia 3grams , 4.5 inches

Postby PetLover2018 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:07 pm

AHBD wrote:How's she doing ? Have you tried the honey by chance ?


Hi, sorry had no chance to reply as was so busy. So went to vet again today, he told me no coccidia in the stool anymore (yay)! :) stopped the injections and also no more meds. But she has been extremely lethargic and flat, I had to restart her 2-3 daily baths with rapolyte as she was getting dehydrated and wrinkled. So her eye is fine now because the vet cleaned it out so didn’t have to use the honey, he said it looked like some old shed stuck in it or some dirt. But I have a dilemma, we have given her another week to see whether without all the harsh meds she’ll improve, maybe start eating again hopefully as she’s only eating small amounts of baby food and also critical care formula. So the vet told me that even if she does survive she may have a lot of problems as an adult beardie so I’m not sure if I want to put her through that :( will have to face a major decision next week on our next appointment... whether or no to put her asleep so she can rest in peace :(
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Re: Baby beardie has coccidia 3grams , 4.5 inches

Postby AHBD » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:34 pm

So glad to hear the coccidia is gone. :) Give her a break from the vet for a while, she may improve slowly now that she's clear of coccidia + off the meds. If she's eating a bit, that's good too. She only needs the baths if she drinks while she's in them BTW. Once a day is more than enough along with the syringe feeding. Dripping water on her snout so she can lick it is more effective than multiple baths.
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Re: Baby beardie has coccidia 3grams , 4.5 inches

Postby kingofnobbys » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:43 pm

bathing : soaking a dragon only helps hydrate it if the dragon drinks while in bath, THEY DO NOT ABSORB MOISTURE OR SALTS THROUGH THE VENT OR THEIR SKIN.

I suggest you buy some reptile suitable baby food (not sure what's available in small bottles in Dublin Ireland).
A good food substitute for sick lizards is VetaFarm HerpaBoost , VetaFarm Crittacare Reptile formulation is great too , as is Oxbow Critical Care - carnivore mix, you could try Repashi GrubPie made sloppy.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
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Re: Baby beardie has coccidia 3grams , 4.5 inches

Postby PetLover2018 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:33 pm

AHBD wrote:So glad to hear the coccidia is gone. :) Give her a break from the vet for a while, she may improve slowly now that she's clear of coccidia + off the meds. If she's eating a bit, that's good too. She only needs the baths if she drinks while she's in them BTW. Once a day is more than enough along with the syringe feeding. Dripping water on her snout so she can lick it is more effective than multiple baths.


Yes. She did drink from her baths. The little pixie actually passed away few hours ago :( just when I got all clear from the vet. No more meds no more injections. Rip pixie. :(
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Re: Baby beardie has coccidia 3grams , 4.5 inches

Postby PetLover2018 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:35 pm

PetLover2018 wrote:
AHBD wrote:So glad to hear the coccidia is gone. :) Give her a break from the vet for a while, she may improve slowly now that she's clear of coccidia + off the meds. If she's eating a bit, that's good too. She only needs the baths if she drinks while she's in them BTW. Once a day is more than enough along with the syringe feeding. Dripping water on her snout so she can lick it is more effective than multiple baths.


Yes. She did drink from her baths. The little pixie actually passed away few hours ago :( just when I got all clear from the vet. No more meds no more injections. Rip pixie. :(

Devastated and absolutely heartbroken :(
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Re: Baby beardie has coccidia 3grams , 4.5 inches

Postby AHBD » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:39 pm

Oh no, I'm sooooo sorry. :( You worked so hard to help your little Pixie, we know you loved the little thing. ! I know you're devastated and no words help right now. My heart goes out to you, I really feel for you + this saddens me for both Pixie and you, her caring owner.
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Re: Baby beardie has coccidia 3grams , 4.5 inches

Postby KarrieRee » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:53 pm

That is terrible- I am sorry to hear about the little baby! I have been following story - I am sorry- it breaks my heart to read about these things- I know you did your best!
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Re: Baby beardie has coccidia 3grams , 4.5 inches

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:07 pm

OH NO !

I feel for you …. I know how it feels to have a little sick lizard that you are trying really hard to save and giving your all to help .
This tough old retired steel engineer has been know to have a good cry and shed lots of tears when his special rescue lizards have died.

Don't beat yourself up over this , you did everything humanly possible to help her . She is no longer suffering and is at rest.

If you decide to get another (my advise is to replace her ASAP as the new pet lizard even if it's not another bearded dragon will give you something to focus on will you recover emotionally . Before housing a new lizard in her tank, a very thorough clean out and sterilization is needed to ensure the new resident wont be infected by what ever killed her.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy - 4yr rescued lawnmowing accident victim 14Nov17.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - rescued injured ,thought she was a big lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
Gecko : Godzilla the hatchling GEHYRA GECKO (hatched May 2019)
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