When is the time for euthanasia?

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When is the time for euthanasia?

Postby ForRealDragons » Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:12 pm

So this is very hard for me to even ask, but I can't bring myself to do it. I have a 10 year old bearded dragon, he'll be 11 in December, and I've had him since he was 6 months old, he came to me with MBD and after he recovered we've always had to deal with complication the disease left us, he's paralyzed in his lower end, and his digestive system has always been finicky, one minute fine and the next a lot of warm baths and tummy rubs. He's never been impacted and I had him checked, he's not impacted now. For about 2 1/2 weeks now when he goes to the bathroom he seem to be incredible pain, one day he got so scared he ran head first into his cage. His poops aren't abnormally large, his temps are fine usually 98 to 100 in his basking area, he doesn't like it too hot. Other than when he goes to the bathroom which he does every other day, he's normal, active, alert, eats all the time, I've been starting to give him more of just repashy veggie burger and I just got grub pie, to see if that makes him feel better, I'm suspecting he may have a parasite now too, when I was at the vet though, he said that he's an older dragon so the vet is worried about putting him through a de-worming treatment, because they can be so harsh on their systems and he's already fragile.
Today though was different, he went to the bathroom and then just laid in it... he look so depressed, after I cleaned him up, he seem happy and ate from my hand very viciously. I've been think about euthanasia for a week now, but he still seems so active and alive its hard for me to bring myself to it. Seeing him in these moment of pain are emotionally wearing me down, I hate to see him suffer, but then he goes back to being himself.. and I can't tell if I'm thinking of euthanasia to end his pain or mine.. I'm so sorry to make this so long, but what I want to know is what you think, ultimately its my choice I know but I cant tell if I'm being blinded by my own emotions, because I don't want to, I cant imagine him not being around anymore, so I don't know if I'm avoiding it for the right reasons?
Whatever advice you have is appreciated, I guess I'm just seeking help because I'm at a loss of what to do, we are doing a fecal by the way to confirm if and what parasite he may have. So what point does a bearded dragon reach that you consider its time to euthanize?
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Re: When is the time for euthanasia?

Postby Drache613 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:02 pm

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Re: When is the time for euthanasia?

Postby Ener » Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:26 am

Always think about the animal. Is he in pain? Is he not capable to do his normal things? Then help him to end his life as peaceful as possible. It is always a tough desicion, but the animals well being is number one. This is my opinion offcourse. I had to let go a few dogs in my life, and this is the way i think about it. Wish you strenght with your desicion.
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Re: When is the time for euthanasia?

Postby bayoupig5 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:53 am

I am so sorry you have to go through this. This is the hardest part of pet ownership. I know exactly what you are going through. I decided to let go of my Emmalee (my first dragon, she was 10) this October. Her kidneys were failing and she lost a lot of weight despite eating quite well. I also did not want her to suffer to keep her alive for me and then again like you feel just ending the pain and worry for myself. I still struggle with my decision. But I can tell you this. A vet will be helpful. With Emmalee although subtle she did open the discussion of euthanasia she may have not said the exact words but lead the discussion there. Now I am dealing with a dragon with pneumonia. His prognosis is not good. But when I said maybe it is best for him not to suffer. She said no...at this time he is not ready. He is very sick and may not make it according to her but she could also see that he had more in him. So I think the vet trip will be very helpful. This decision will be difficult but you will know what is best for your buddy. Best wishes. I will be thinking of you.
My Dragons - LITTLEFOOT, STINKBOMB ("Stinky"), AKASHA
RIP - EMMALEE (Feb 2009 - Oct 2018)
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Re: When is the time for euthanasia?

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:38 am

Quality of life, if it's in pain & suffering , and the prognosis of the dragons future are what need to be considered in making this kind of decision.

I don't envy you.

Have you considered modifying his diet so it's has less solids and there are natural laxatives in it to help , softer damper poos wont be as traumatic.
I'd be talking to your vet about geriactic bearded dragon care and needs.

You need to discuss his recent changes with a reptile vet , and get to the crux of this , may just be he's feeling off because of parasites or is ill and with proper treatment will be back to his old self and able to enjoy his life once again. I wouldn't be so quick to euthenise him and I doubt a reputable vet will do an unnecessary euthanisation simply because the owner wants it.
CBDs: Puff (M)(RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (F)(RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless (M)(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (F) (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (M)(wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (F)(rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy (F) rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old . .
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Re: When is the time for euthanasia?

Postby Drache613 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:13 pm

Hello,

This is the worst part of having a precious dragon, even thinking about having to put them
down. :cry: Everyone has put forth great questions to ponder on.
I agree, you will absolutely know because you can feel their spirit. They let you know but it
is extremely hard to go through.
A vet visit is a good idea, to help determine if there are other factors at hand & if he could get
better. I will be thinking about you & your dragon & do let us know how things are going with
him.

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Re: When is the time for euthanasia?

Postby ForRealDragons » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:08 am

I wanted to go ahead and give an update, the fecal came back good, he doesn't have any parasites, they did another check for impaction and he is clear, the vet isn't sure what is causing him to have loose/runny stool. He has me giving him some probitics, he's mainly only eating repashy veggie burger and grub pie, however I'm giving him some turnip greens every other day and 1 or 2 wax worm 3x a week, to help keep some weight on him. I did a really deep clean on his cage, I replaced all his old furniture that couldn't be fully sterilized, and he's actually doing better so far! The vet said we should just keep and eye on him and if he start to lose his appetite or in constant pain, well discuss euthanasia again, but when we talked he said that we should go ahead and try changing some things and if nothing gets better then it might be best to go ahead and put him down, but when we went to the vet he was the image of a happy alert dragon so he wanted to try different options first, which I'm happy to try anything.
He does really seem to be doing better, there's still discomfort at times but it wasn't as bad as before, were not in the clear yet, it just something I have to watch and see if he improves or if he's just going to decline.

Thank you all so much for your advice and encouragement, I really appreciate this website and everybody that is on it.
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Re: When is the time for euthanasia?

Postby kingofnobbys » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:40 am

ForRealDragons wrote:I wanted to go ahead and give an update, the fecal came back good, he doesn't have any parasites, they did another check for impaction and he is clear, the vet isn't sure what is causing him to have loose/runny stool. He has me giving him some probitics, he's mainly only eating repashy veggie burger and grub pie,

>>>> if this is pretty much his entire diet ==> this is why , ie no solids and no fibre
if you lived on a liquid / gel / pudding only diet for an extended period , you'd have loose watery unformed poos too.



however I'm giving him some turnip greens every other day and 1 or 2 wax worm 3x a week, to help keep some weight on him. I did a really deep clean on his cage, I replaced all his old furniture that couldn't be fully sterilized, and he's actually doing better so far! The vet said we should just keep and eye on him and if he start to lose his appetite or in constant pain, well discuss euthanasia again, but when we talked he said that we should go ahead and try changing some things and if nothing gets better then it might be best to go ahead and put him down, but when we went to the vet he was the image of a happy alert dragon so he wanted to try different options first, which I'm happy to try anything.
He does really seem to be doing better, there's still discomfort at times but it wasn't as bad as before, were not in the clear yet, it just something I have to watch and see if he improves or if he's just going to decline.

Thank you all so much for your advice and encouragement, I really appreciate this website and everybody that is on it.
CBDs: Puff (M)(RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (F)(RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless (M)(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (F) (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (M)(wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (F)(rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy (F) rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old . .
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Re: When is the time for euthanasia?

Postby peachypink » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:07 am

I’m so sorry you are dealing with this. I went through this with Baby and she was only 6. The vet told me “you will just know when it’s time”. I didn’t get it until it actually was time. Even when she was regurgitating black liquid I wasn’t sure because she acted fine otherwise. She got through that and went on another 2 years. The vet told me as long as she’s eating and acting fine, just keep her comfortable. She was in liver failure. I will never forget the day that I knew. You could see it in her eyes that she was just done. So I made the appointment for the next day. But then she took it out of my hands and I watched her take her last breath that night. I held her and cried. But it was so true, you just know when it’s the right time. They will tell you. Not many understand the bond we have with these little guys. You will know, it’s torture when your in the middle of it. Praying the probiotics help and that you get a little more time.
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Re: When is the time for euthanasia?

Postby Drache613 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:06 pm

Hello,

That is good to hear he came back clear for parasites! How is he doing today?
Is he able to eat any insects, at least from your hand, or is he not interested? You can continue
to give the grub pie along with some insects so he get some variety in his diet.
I hope that he picks up some for you, bless him. He deserves to be pampered in his older age
though.
Let us know how things are going.

Tracie
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Re: When is the time for euthanasia?

Postby ForRealDragons » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:37 pm

Drache613 wrote:Hello,

That is good to hear he came back clear for parasites! How is he doing today?
Is he able to eat any insects, at least from your hand, or is he not interested? You can continue
to give the grub pie along with some insects so he get some variety in his diet.
I hope that he picks up some for you, bless him. He deserves to be pampered in his older age
though.
Let us know how things are going.

Tracie


Today, he did really good, I got my order of BSFL in and have been giving him that, I'm trying to keep some solid in his diets, but I have to avoid dubai roaches and crickets, anything that may cause problems during digestion. He's eating on his own, and quite a bit more than usual suddenly... which I take as a good sign!
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Re: When is the time for euthanasia?

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:26 am

ForRealDragons wrote:
Drache613 wrote:Hello,

That is good to hear he came back clear for parasites! How is he doing today?
Is he able to eat any insects, at least from your hand, or is he not interested? You can continue
to give the grub pie along with some insects so he get some variety in his diet.
I hope that he picks up some for you, bless him. He deserves to be pampered in his older age
though.
Let us know how things are going.

Tracie


Today, he did really good, I got my order of BSFL in and have been giving him that, I'm trying to keep some solid in his diets, but I have to avoid dubai roaches and crickets, anything that may cause problems during digestion. He's eating on his own, and quite a bit more than usual suddenly... which I take as a good sign!


Aren't you glad he's still here to enjoy his yummy wormies….
CBDs: Puff (M)(RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (F)(RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless (M)(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (F) (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (M)(wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (F)(rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy (F) rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old . .
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