Pumpkin still not eating on his own after a month

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Glamamama

Hatchling Member
@drache613
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In mid August Pumpkin literally collapsed. His eating veggies had reduced over the course of a month or two but I missed the signs because he was still interested in live food. Never again. His white count was elevated and LFTs high so he was started on Baytril/Flagyl/milk thistle and I gammon subQ plasmalyte for 5 days. Emeraid 50/50 Omnicare/Carnivore care. He improved but last vet visit neutrophils still climbing so vet switched to Fortaz. Pumpkin question & update:
He is actually looking good now my fingers are crossed. My question is I need suggestions on getting him to eat his veggies and gain interest in live food. It has been a month of Emeraid Omnivore/Carnivore care. I forced him to eat a piece of dandelion and julienne butternut and he finally chewed it instead of spitting out but was a butthead. He ate a few more pieces of butternut. No interest in a cricket. I have tried repeatedly with a hornworm which he normally ❤️. We ditched oral Baytril and Flagyl as of Friday and switched him to Fortaz IM every 3 days. We started early Saturday morning. Still getting milk thistle orally am and pm. Neutrophils (white count was high so vet said let’s switch we are debating blood pathogen labs but it is expensive and we have spent $$$$$ already) Other option is Amikacin IM but more toxicity issues. The eating is the big thing I need ideas with. I am afraid to hold back food too much bc of fatty liver issues don’t want him dehydrated that is finally slowly resolving. He is fairly active periodically and his poops look normal too. We are still giving him oral milk thistle 2x a day too. I am so exhausted thought he had URI yesterday because he had dyspnea and gaping for 2 days I must be old and blind my daughter came home Sunday and gently extracted shed from both nostrils and he is behaving normal no more gaping or wheezing. What do you suggest on the food? Hoping Tracy has some ideas.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi there, can you post the blood tests here ?

So did Pumkin actually collapse, like as in not moving, eating, etc ? Just to clarify. Can you post a few pics of Pumpkin ? If he's good sized then he may not be hungry because of the food supplement he's getting and also the constant medicating may cause loss of appetite + at least some degree of stress.

It's good that he's doing better, things are looking up then actually. :)
 

Glamamama

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
AHBD":2i0sz8ta said:
Hi there, can you post the blood tests here ?

CBC, LFTs. Ultrasound,.I just looked thru paperwork and not seeing fecal put in call bc with all I spent and initially was blood in poop they had to have done fecal. They never did blood pathogen up front which I wish they did. He was barely responsive with shallow breathing 8-15-2018. This huge multi specialty vet ER where they rotate avian/herp interns the vet is. Tufts University vet school grad not some dodo. I am looking back now that I am not in panic and realize I should have insisted up front for fecal and blood path...don’t you think? These pics are from today. He looks good, alert not his usual energy but he seems to have bursts of energy. Should I start skipping feeding to let him get hungry? I just worry his LFfTs were still in 700 range and last Monday labs showed high WBC like over 1000. Still

So did Pumkin actually collapse, like as in not moving, eating, etc ? Just to clarify. Can you post a few pics of Pumpkin ? If he's good sized then he may not be hungry because of the food supplement he's getting and also the constant medicating may cause loss of appetite + at least some degree of stress.

It's good that he's doing better, things are looking up then actually. :)
 

Glamamama

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
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XIMG]
AHBD":pyjsx1iv said:
Hi there, can you post the blood tests here ?

So did Pumkin actually collapse, like as in not moving, eating, etc ? Just to clarify. Can you post a few pics of Pumpkin ? If he's good sized then he may not be hungry because of the food supplement he's getting and also the constant medicating may cause loss of appetite + at least some degree of stress.

It's good that he's doing better, things are looking up then actually. :)
 

Glamamama

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Update: Vet just called Level 3 (Level 4 is highest) pinworms. Going to pickup Panacur tomorrow hoping it works quickly and we see improvement soon. Poor guy this has been going on since the middle of August.

Update: got poop this afternoon brought in for gram stain and fecal float. Hoping to have results 1-3 days.


The imbeciles never did fecal float or gram stain I spoke to them today...ummm yes we missed on that. Never did blood path either. Looking back with 20/20 should have been done ASAP along with other measures. Going to bring poop himyonmy local herp vet as soon as I get a fresh one.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

I ran out of time last night!
Are you referring to the Lymphocyte counts? Those counts were on the upper end which
indicates some type of infection. The AST (liver enzymes) are on the higher end, too. Has
he been tested for Adenovirus yet? His calcium & phosphorus levels look good overall & so
do the uric acid levels (kidney level) for now. He has been diagnosed with Fatty liver then,
correct? How long ago was he diagnosed with that? How long has he been on the milk thistle
for his liver? Is he still on Fortaz injections right now?
The pinworm level is not bad, but a few doses of Panacur should take care of that for him.
I am really surprised that they didn't do any type of fecal on him, initially, when they did
everything else on him.
Is he basking normally right now without a beard?
If he is getting too much medication along with powdered food supplementation, he likely will
not have any appetite at all, as mentioned.
You are positive that Pumpkin is male?
Can you review what lighting & UVB lighting you are using currently?

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie
 

Glamamama

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Hi

He was definitely sexed with ultrasound as a male
No adeno labs but no symptoms at all (stargazing etc never)
New Reptisun 10 changed every 6 mos on top of tank
2 digital thermometers in tank about 100 degrees in basking and 78-80 in cool area. I also have 2 temp guns. I was disgusted they never did fecal and I saw in care notes they sent me it said I asked...I was so in a state that I didn’t insist. I was just trying to manage his care and work. He is on Fortaz #3 q 3 days. He is cooperating more on eating greens offered to him dandelion.escarole, butternut, zucchini, yellow squash. Tried Dubia this am no interest but he is not spitting out veggies like he was a few weeks ago. Starting to cut down emerald to 1x a day to stimulate his eating on own. The fatty liver was dx when he initially collapsed August 15 ...low respiration, black beard and he was put on sub q plasmalyte x 5 days and baytril/flagyl. Kept overnite and I treated at home with 2x a day feedings emerald and milk thistle also am/pm.

Now on fortaz and milk thistle as well as panacur. Next panacur is in 2 weeks. He is definitely more energetic every week...no black beards at all. He is alert and attentive, he is starting to be interested in his own shadow again and seeing a hit of glass surfing. He is also self regulating his temps and moving to heat and cool as needed. His weight is staying steady at 570-ish g

I see consistent improvement but he is still not wanting to voluntarily eat but I guess between fortaz and panacur it is kind of normal. I think essentially the fatty liver was caused by a slow anorexia that I missed (still beating myself up) because he was still eating live food and just not seeming to show same interest in veggies. I will be definitely doing a few things moving forward: weekly weight and 2x a year fecal. Any thoughts?

Drache613":3ft1bxpk said:
Hello,

I ran out of time last night!
Are you referring to the Lymphocyte counts? Those counts were on the upper end which
indicates some type of infection. The AST (liver enzymes) are on the higher end, too. Has
he been tested for Adenovirus yet? His calcium & phosphorus levels look good overall & so
do the uric acid levels (kidney level) for now. He has been diagnosed with Fatty liver then,
correct? How long ago was he diagnosed with that? How long has he been on the milk thistle
for his liver? Is he still on Fortaz injections right now?
The pinworm level is not bad, but a few doses of Panacur should take care of that for him.
I am really surprised that they didn't do any type of fecal on him, initially, when they did
everything else on him.
Is he basking normally right now without a beard?
If he is getting too much medication along with powdered food supplementation, he likely will
not have any appetite at all, as mentioned.
You are positive that Pumpkin is male?
Can you review what lighting & UVB lighting you are using currently?

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

How is Pumpkin doing today?
That is great to hear he is eating more greens & veggies right now, that is some improvement.
Between all of the medications, that would definitely be affecting his appetite & behavior a
lot right now.
Are you going to be keeping him on the milk thistle as a regular supplement? Are you still
giving the Emeraid too?
As long as his weight is stable, & he is more alert I would say to give him a little more time.
It does take reptiles longer to show improvement than it does other animals. I hope that he
continues to get better now.
Be sure to keep him a little warmer over night right now, since he has been under the weather
& on meds currently. Keep us posted on him.

Tracie
 

Glamamama

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Hi,

He has been grumpy the past two days with some black beard during feeding. Emeraid in the morning and I have been giving him a little organic dandelion in the evening and butternut. Today was a fortaz... q 3 days. Tonite I tried making it into a slurry with dandelion, escarole and a bit of pumpkin. He got furious and black beard but ate probs 2-3ml. I am giving about 3ml emeraid in the am now. Doc still wanted him to stay on milk thistle hoping it is helping the liver. Yesterday poop looked good, He pooped tonight and it was just white and a little liquid. It actually looked like there was a clear worm in. The white so I wonder... he is fine now I let him watch the African cichlids in their big tank and his black beard went down. Ugh this has been SO long with this since mid August. The past two days were the only black beards in like 2 weeeks. I thought we were kind of on the upswing.


quote="Drache613"]Hello,

How is Pumpkin doing today?
That is great to hear he is eating more greens & veggies right now, that is some improvement.
Between all of the medications, that would definitely be affecting his appetite & behavior a
lot right now.
Are you going to be keeping him on the milk thistle as a regular supplement? Are you still
giving the Emeraid too?
As long as his weight is stable, & he is more alert I would say to give him a little more time.
It does take reptiles longer to show improvement than it does other animals. I hope that he
continues to get better now.
Be sure to keep him a little warmer over night right now, since he has been under the weather
& on meds currently. Keep us posted on him.

Tracie[/quote]
 

Glamamama

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Today was much better. He seems to like the pumpkin so I gave him a tiny bit with his morning emeraid mixture. Just a little black beard this morning and it went away pretty quickly. I feel like this has been going on forever. I just pray my guy will be eating on his own soon.


Glamamama":1hp7q8gw said:
Hi,

He has been grumpy the past two days with some black beard during feeding. Emeraid in the morning and I have been giving him a little organic dandelion in the evening and butternut. Today was a fortaz... q 3 days. Tonite I tried making it into a slurry with dandelion, escarole and a bit of pumpkin. He got furious and black beard but ate probs 2-3ml. I am giving about 3ml emeraid in the am now. Doc still wanted him to stay on milk thistle hoping it is helping the liver. Yesterday poop looked good, He pooped tonight and it was just white and a little liquid. It actually looked like there was a clear worm in. The white so I wonder... he is fine now I let him watch the African cichlids in their big tank and his black beard went down. Ugh this has been SO long with this since mid August. The past two days were the only black beards in like 2 weeeks. I thought we were kind of on the upswing.


quote="Drache613"]Hello,

How is Pumpkin doing today?
That is great to hear he is eating more greens & veggies right now, that is some improvement.
Between all of the medications, that would definitely be affecting his appetite & behavior a
lot right now.
Are you going to be keeping him on the milk thistle as a regular supplement? Are you still
giving the Emeraid too?
As long as his weight is stable, & he is more alert I would say to give him a little more time.
It does take reptiles longer to show improvement than it does other animals. I hope that he
continues to get better now.
Be sure to keep him a little warmer over night right now, since he has been under the weather
& on meds currently. Keep us posted on him.

Tracie
[/quote]
 

Glamamama

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Tracie,

I seems like there is always something. I have been perplexed because all of the sudden Pumpkin developed some bug eyes out of nowhere. He is definitely more lethargic and spends more time with his eyes closed. I know his renal output was good on the last labs and I was starting to worry. I am so financially drained I don't know. Then I was googling and saw something about issues with some Reptisun UVB and other branded UVB bulbs (Zoo Med 26061 Reptisun 10.0 T5-Ho Uvb 24W Fluorescent Lamp, 22") and essentially all his sudden eye symptoms. I just replaced his Reptisun this week! I bought it new from Amason but wondering if it is the cause of the issue. I am going to try to switch out for the old one which I still have and see if it makes a difference. I am wondering if I should just shut it off for tomorrow and see what happens. What do you think.
Drache613":1p5fsmp6 said:
Hello,

How is Pumpkin doing today?
That is great to hear he is eating more greens & veggies right now, that is some improvement.
Between all of the medications, that would definitely be affecting his appetite & behavior a
lot right now.
Are you going to be keeping him on the milk thistle as a regular supplement? Are you still
giving the Emeraid too?
As long as his weight is stable, & he is more alert I would say to give him a little more time.
It does take reptiles longer to show improvement than it does other animals. I hope that he
continues to get better now.
Be sure to keep him a little warmer over night right now, since he has been under the weather
& on meds currently. Keep us posted on him.

Tracie
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Oh you are kidding, now his eyes are puffy & somewhat swollen? Are they
staying like that all day?
If the issue just started after replacing the tube bulb, it is a possibility the
bulb could be from a bad batch.
Has he eaten today? I hope he isn't too grumpy & black bearding as much.
They sure do have some great personalities!
I hope he is feeling better! Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie
 

Glamamama

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
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No I can’t make it up. They have been like this for several days now with the bulging eyes. He is still eating or I should say accepting what I put in with the syringe. He licked a little today with an applesauce and pumpkin mixture. Not too cooperative but he swallows. Pooping good but less white urate. His black beard goes down after eating and he looked relaxed otherwise. I am not so hopeful as time goes by but feel in limbo.

quote="Drache613"]Hello,

Oh you are kidding, now his eyes are puffy & somewhat swollen? Are they
staying like that all day?
If the issue just started after replacing the tube bulb, it is a possibility the
bulb could be from a bad batch.
Has he eaten today? I hope he isn't too grumpy & black bearding as much.
They sure do have some great personalities!
I hope he is feeling better! Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie[/quote]
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Do his eyes recede in size any during the day, or have they been staying
swollen for extended periods of time?
It may have something to do with his liver causing pressure, but not sure.
Is his beard dark when he goes to sleep at night?

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie
 

Glamamama

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
I think liver or kidneys... but the liver is up by eyes. I think he is failing despite my heroic efforts. It is very hard but I don’t want him suffering. He is more resistant to eating. He seems relaxed in tank with no black beard but doesn’t move really. He is aware and alert but very not well. My husband and daughter and I have been talking and we need to decide what to do. My sister said he has been such a brave soldier and he really has. He has been so good even through all of this.
quote="Drache613"]Hello,

Do his eyes recede in size any during the day, or have they been staying
swollen for extended periods of time?
It may have something to do with his liver causing pressure, but not sure.
Is his beard dark when he goes to sleep at night?

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie[/quote]
 
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