Nighttime temperature?

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Nighttime temperature?

Postby phobosdthorga » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:51 am

Hello all again! I didn't want to hijack a thread, so I thought to create another one instead. What is the generally agreed upon nighttime temperature for the vivarium with your Bearded Dragons? I was always under the belief that it had to be around 30 degrees Celsius until I just read a post by EllenD. Can it really go down to 18 degrees Celsius and still be considered safe for your Beardie? Because when I touch my Iggy in the morning at just 25, he's stone cold and almost dead-like to me. It's quite shocking to see. That's why I'm working on an upgrade to his Ceramic Heating Element in the next couple of days to improve this situation, and thankfully it's been a hot day today.

I thank anyone in advance for their input.
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Re: Nighttime temperature?

Postby kingofnobbys » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:15 am

I'm coastal north coast NSW. Gets chilly overnight sometimes in winter here (seen it drop to about 10 degC in winter overnight outside, I've never seen a frost here. Go 20 km inland and you will see frosts overnight.

I never let my house temperatures fall much below 22 degC overnight. My home is climate controlled 24/7 in summer and winter and very well insulated too.

My pet skinks and dragons have never brummated. Too warm , too well fed . All my pets have warmed tanks and tubs , see viewtopic.php?f=75&t=224976&p=1746469&hilit=safe+way+to+use+heatpads#p1746469
CBDs: Puff (RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old .
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Re: Nighttime temperature?

Postby phobosdthorga » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:31 am

kingofnobbys wrote:I'm coastal north coast NSW. Gets chilly overnight sometimes in winter here (seen it drop to about 10 degC in winter overnight outside, I've never seen a frost here. Go 20 km inland and you will see frosts overnight.

I never let my house temperatures fall much below 22 degC overnight. My home is climate controlled 24/7 in summer and winter and very well insulated too.

My pet skinks and dragons have never brummated. Too warm , too well fed . All my pets have warmed tanks and tubs , see viewtopic.php?f=75&t=224976&p=1746469&hilit=safe+way+to+use+heatpads#p1746469


I'm moving back to Victoria in a few weeks due to financial issues with living in Sydney, despite how lovely it is being here with my partner (I'm totally converted by now, Sydney all the way! :) so yeah, it's especially cold there. My parents place is climate controlled thankfully though (I'm a disability pensioner alas), just like your household. That gives me so much hope that your lizards have never brumated though, since I could never go without interacting with Iggy for even a day <3 Do you mind sharing information on what heatpads you use, the ones that have been tested to not go above 40 *C? Even if by PM? I promise to not do things such as hold you to your word, since there are never any guarantees in life and so on. I'd just like information on a product that's hopefully 'more safe' than the general bunch that's available.

My understanding though, and this just reinforces such, is that Beardies and similar need more 'localised warmth' than the generalised which is available during the day.
Need to find a veterinarian that specializes with reptiles? There's a map available here: https://www.vitticeps.org/

We are currently developing an application called HerpLog which is a fast, secure and advanced note-taker, logger, and needs-manager for all your herpetology requirements. Check it out!
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Re: Nighttime temperature?

Postby CooperDragon » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:44 am

They can handle pretty good cold snaps if need be. I think it's wise to keep them a bit above their lower threshold on a regular basis for comfort and long term health and that's probably where the 18c estimate comes from. It's just an estimate though. They do feel cold in the mornings but I've found that slowly brining their heat lamp on over the course of 30-60 minutes gets them up and running pretty well. I have a heat projector on a pulse thermostat to keep the "cool" side of the tank (warm side at night based on where the lights are) between 21-22. That has worked well for me but isn't necessarily the only way to go. The other side of the tank (basking area during the day) drops down to 18-20 overnight in the winter as the house gets cold. Darwin does just fine sleeping on either side.
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Re: Nighttime temperature?

Postby EllenD » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:01 pm

The general rule of thumb is that as long as their tank temperature stays at 65 degrees or above, they are comfortable and will sleep soundly. 65 degrees F is not at all "cold" when you consider how cold the desert gets at nighttime, so think about it that way. Now that isn't to say that if their tank temperature is 70, or even 75 that it's too hot, I always like to use 73 as my cut-off, as I often see people on here that are using a CHE and have a nighttime tank temperature of over 80 degrees, and that's just far too hot, again, think about how cool the desert gets at nighttime...Their bodies are made to sleep in cool temperatures at nighttime, and this is what their bodies need in order to rest and recover properly.
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Re: Nighttime temperature?

Postby phobosdthorga » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:24 pm

Hmm... but isn't it true that in the desert, the rocks that they hide under/within hold a good amount of warmth, despite how cold the ambient temperature may get? That's why I'm interested in the heating pads that `kingofnobbys` uses, if he doesn't mind sharing details. It's always good to discuss details like this, it leads to better care for our Beardies in the long run :)
Need to find a veterinarian that specializes with reptiles? There's a map available here: https://www.vitticeps.org/

We are currently developing an application called HerpLog which is a fast, secure and advanced note-taker, logger, and needs-manager for all your herpetology requirements. Check it out!
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Re: Nighttime temperature?

Postby EllenD » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:50 pm

Not necessarily, no. The question becomes "What temperature are you aiming to keep your Dragon at, and how do you know he'll be comfortable"? That's really the essence of this question, because usually when we're discussing "Nighttime Dragon Tank Temperature", we're discussing the "Air" Temperature, as most people are just automatically using either a CHE or some kind of "Night Bulb". Now we all know the problem using an actual light-emitting bulb, so I'm not going to discuss those. However, most people who are adding a CHE at nighttime already have their homes above 65 degrees at night...So assuming that the Dragon's tank is going to be at least 4-5 degrees warmer, on average, than the room their tank is in, most people already have their Dragons in tanks that are already AT THE VERY LEAST at an air temperature of 65 degrees, usually at least 70 degrees...

So this is usually the situation where this question pops-up, and that's where it becomes crucial to make sure that we point this out to new owners, as adding a 50 watt or higher CHE TO RAISE THE AMBIENT/AIR TEMPERATURE OF THEIR DRAGON'S TANK is not only counterproductive, it's often detrimental to their health (often times if you read the posts of new owners, they list a 100 watt CHE "For Nighttime", the problem of which is very evident...

Adding an "Under-tank Heat Mat" to your Dragon's tank is a totally different situation, as generally they do not raise the Ambient/Air Temperature of the tank much at all, but rather the Surface Temperature of the area over-top of the Heat Mat. So that's not typically what is discussed when a new Dragon owner comes on to ask about "Nighttime Heat Sources". So perhaps these are actually 2 completely different topics, as I see nothing at all wrong/detrimental with adding a Heat Mat to your Dragon's tank for the nighttime. It's when people start out with a nighttime air/ambient tank temperature that is already at 65 degrees or above and then they add a CHE to raise the air/ambient nighttime temperature some more that can create a serious issue...I mean, think about it this way...Most Dragons always have a Cool-Side to their tanks to go to all day long that is somewhere between 75-80 degrees F...Obviously their bodies are built to be at a lower AIR temperatures than that at nighttime, but then people add a 50-100 watt CHE to a nighttime tank air temperature that is already 65-70 degrees...This is the issue.
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Re: Nighttime temperature?

Postby CooperDragon » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:00 pm

I would use either method in conjunction with a thermostat to keep better control over the heat and safeguard against malfuctions. As to what their usual range is, I'm not sure. We would have to do more observation and reading of temperatures when they burrow at night. We can guess based on average temperatures across their range (soil temps would be helpful here too) but it's tough to duplicate their natural habitat anyway given space and technology restrictions when they are captive. I can say from experience that the 70-73f/21-22c temperature overnight works based on my own observations. I don't know if that is ideal or not but it allows a cooldown period and seems to keep my dragon happy so I go with that for now until further info becomes available. As with a lot of things they probably have personal preferences so it is probably worthwhile to try out some configurations and observe them to see how they respond.
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Re: Nighttime temperature?

Postby kingofnobbys » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:43 pm

phobosdthorga wrote:
kingofnobbys wrote:I'm coastal north coast NSW. Gets chilly overnight sometimes in winter here (seen it drop to about 10 degC in winter overnight outside, I've never seen a frost here. Go 20 km inland and you will see frosts overnight.

I never let my house temperatures fall much below 22 degC overnight. My home is climate controlled 24/7 in summer and winter and very well insulated too.

My pet skinks and dragons have never brummated. Too warm , too well fed . All my pets have warmed tanks and tubs , see viewtopic.php?f=75&t=224976&p=1746469&hilit=safe+way+to+use+heatpads#p1746469


I'm moving back to Victoria in a few weeks due to financial issues with living in Sydney, despite how lovely it is being here with my partner (I'm totally converted by now, Sydney all the way! :) so yeah, it's especially cold there. My parents place is climate controlled thankfully though (I'm a disability pensioner alas), just like your household. That gives me so much hope that your lizards have never brumated though, since I could never go without interacting with Iggy for even a day <3 Do you mind sharing information on what heatpads you use, the ones that have been tested to not go above 40 *C? Even if by PM? I promise to not do things such as hold you to your word, since there are never any guarantees in life and so on. I'd just like information on a product that's hopefully 'more safe' than the general bunch that's available.

My understanding though, and this just reinforces such, is that Beardies and similar need more 'localised warmth' than the generalised which is available during the day.

I hate Sydney .... the harbor is overrated and the traffic and getting around there is a nightmare.
I live about 1 hour north of Hornsby and do my best to never to drive to Sydney or through the place unless it's absolutely necessary (my son lives / works there and I never go there , he comes home to visit us instead).
Housing in Sydney unless you are way way out in the sticks in the far western or far south western suburbs is way too pricey too.
Mind you , land and house prices here have boomed in the last 10 years as people started commuting daily from my area to Sydney to work.
Been over 15 years since my last Sydney visit.

IMO the best capitals here in Australia are Brisbane , Adelaide , Perth and Darwin , all are much more liveable and nicer (in all ways) and easier to drive around in than Sydney by a long margin. I've particularly loved my visits to Darwin ....

Gets pretty cold in Melbourne in winter ....

In the Victorian climate , even if coastal , I would consider both a heatpad under the hide as per the link above & a ceramic heat emitter for overnight controlled by separate thermostat to keep the tank warmer than 21 degC overnight (I'd run the heatpad and the ceramic heat emitter 24/7 , and have the basking and UVB lights on a timer.
Essentially what will happen during the day is the basking globe and UVB tube will switch on and shortly afterwards the viv will become warm enough for the thermostat controlling the CHE to automatically switch it off based on the remote temperature probes temperature reading in the sleeping area.
If it's a very cold day , the ceramic heat emitter's thermostat may well keep the CHE running (which will give the viv a temperature boost without your needing to upsize the basking globe wattage).


Heatpads :
I use 5W and 7W versions of these : https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Reptile-Hea ... SwQJhUc1E5 , I sandwich the heatpads between secondhand floor or wall tiles ---- evens out the temperatures and avoids direct contact with a heatpad
they are self limited at 38 degC but I close the loop using one of these per heatpad : https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hot-Thermos ... SwsBtaCEmS
I set the thermostat to 36 to 37 degC for my bearded dragons.

The thermostat will not allow the heatpad to get warmer than 37 degC , and if the thermostat fails , it's open circuit so no current reaches the heatpad , which gives a nice safety aspect.

Some of my 7W and 5W heatpads & thermostat sets have been in continuous use for 10 years.

My jumbo Hubbahuts for the beardies and bluetongues sit ontop the tiles that are sandwiching the heatpads. My gang love their nice warm hides at night , especially in winter.
CBDs: Puff (RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old .
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Re: Nighttime temperature?

Postby phobosdthorga » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:16 pm

EllenD wrote:Not necessarily, no. The question becomes "What temperature are you aiming to keep your Dragon at, and how do you know he'll be comfortable"? That's really the essence of this question, because usually when we're discussing "Nighttime Dragon Tank Temperature", we're discussing the "Air" Temperature, as most people are just automatically using either a CHE or some kind of "Night Bulb". Now we all know the problem using an actual light-emitting bulb, so I'm not going to discuss those. However, most people who are adding a CHE at nighttime already have their homes above 65 degrees at night...So assuming that the Dragon's tank is going to be at least 4-5 degrees warmer, on average, than the room their tank is in, most people already have their Dragons in tanks that are already AT THE VERY LEAST at an air temperature of 65 degrees, usually at least 70 degrees...

So this is usually the situation where this question pops-up, and that's where it becomes crucial to make sure that we point this out to new owners, as adding a 50 watt or higher CHE TO RAISE THE AMBIENT/AIR TEMPERATURE OF THEIR DRAGON'S TANK is not only counterproductive, it's often detrimental to their health (often times if you read the posts of new owners, they list a 100 watt CHE "For Nighttime", the problem of which is very evident...

Adding an "Under-tank Heat Mat" to your Dragon's tank is a totally different situation, as generally they do not raise the Ambient/Air Temperature of the tank much at all, but rather the Surface Temperature of the area over-top of the Heat Mat. So that's not typically what is discussed when a new Dragon owner comes on to ask about "Nighttime Heat Sources". So perhaps these are actually 2 completely different topics, as I see nothing at all wrong/detrimental with adding a Heat Mat to your Dragon's tank for the nighttime. It's when people start out with a nighttime air/ambient tank temperature that is already at 65 degrees or above and then they add a CHE to raise the air/ambient nighttime temperature some more that can create a serious issue...I mean, think about it this way...Most Dragons always have a Cool-Side to their tanks to go to all day long that is somewhere between 75-80 degrees F...Obviously their bodies are built to be at a lower AIR temperatures than that at nighttime, but then people add a 50-100 watt CHE to a nighttime tank air temperature that is already 65-70 degrees...This is the issue.


Alright! I'll adjust his nighttime thermostat to suit the new information I've just learned and hopefully he'll improve in his functioning even further from there :) Thank you so much for taking the time to explain all this ^_^ Although I must ask, in what ways exactly is too high a temperature at night detrimental to their health? I just want to know so I can see if Iggy is currently experiencing any 'symptoms', so to speak.

CooperDragon wrote:I would use either method in conjunction with a thermostat to keep better control over the heat and safeguard against malfuctions. As to what their usual range is, I'm not sure. We would have to do more observation and reading of temperatures when they burrow at night. We can guess based on average temperatures across their range (soil temps would be helpful here too) but it's tough to duplicate their natural habitat anyway given space and technology restrictions when they are captive. I can say from experience that the 70-73f/21-22c temperature overnight works based on my own observations. I don't know if that is ideal or not but it allows a cooldown period and seems to keep my dragon happy so I go with that for now until further info becomes available. As with a lot of things they probably have personal preferences so it is probably worthwhile to try out some configurations and observe them to see how they respond.


Of course you would use either method in conjunction with a thermostat, it's basic safety engineering :) My thermostats aren't advanced enough to allow for 'warm-up' or 'cooldown' periods, and lack such a pulsing method of control. I do plan on upgrading to a more advanced thermostat in the future that will control everything within the vivarium, and have PWM control, but I can't afford such luxuries for Iggy right now (hence me moving back in with my parents shortly).

kingofnobbys wrote:I hate Sydney .... the harbor is overrated and the traffic and getting around there is a nightmare.
I live about 1 hour north of Hornsby and do my best to never to drive to Sydney or through the place unless it's absolutely necessary (my son lives / works there and I never go there , he comes home to visit us instead).
Housing in Sydney unless you are way way out in the sticks in the far western or far south western suburbs is way too pricey too.
Mind you , land and house prices here have boomed in the last 10 years as people started commuting daily from my area to Sydney to work.
Been over 15 years since my last Sydney visit.

IMO the best capitals here in Australia are Brisbane , Adelaide , Perth and Darwin , all are much more liveable and nicer (in all ways) and easier to drive around in than Sydney by a long margin. I've particularly loved my visits to Darwin ....

Gets pretty cold in Melbourne in winter ....

In the Victorian climate , even if coastal , I would consider both a heatpad under the hide as per the link above & a ceramic heat emitter for overnight controlled by separate thermostat to keep the tank warmer than 21 degC overnight (I'd run the heatpad and the ceramic heat emitter 24/7 , and have the basking and UVB lights on a timer.
Essentially what will happen during the day is the basking globe and UVB tube will switch on and shortly afterwards the viv will become warm enough for the thermostat controlling the CHE to automatically switch it off based on the remote temperature probes temperature reading in the sleeping area.
If it's a very cold day , the ceramic heat emitter's thermostat may well keep the CHE running (which will give the viv a temperature boost without your needing to upsize the basking globe wattage).


Heatpads :
I use 5W and 7W versions of these : https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Reptile-Hea ... SwQJhUc1E5 , I sandwich the heatpads between secondhand floor or wall tiles ---- evens out the temperatures and avoids direct contact with a heatpad
they are self limited at 38 degC but I close the loop using one of these per heatpad : https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hot-Thermos ... SwsBtaCEmS
I set the thermostat to 36 to 37 degC for my bearded dragons.

The thermostat will not allow the heatpad to get warmer than 37 degC , and if the thermostat fails , it's open circuit so no current reaches the heatpad , which gives a nice safety aspect.

Some of my 7W and 5W heatpads & thermostat sets have been in continuous use for 10 years.

My jumbo Hubbahuts for the beardies and bluetongues sit ontop the tiles that are sandwiching the heatpads. My gang love their nice warm hides at night , especially in winter.


I can easily understand why Sydney is not to some individual's tastes. It's an acquired taste, much like a good wine is ;) Although you might even disagree with that XD And yes, the traffic is HORRENDOUS. I still prefer it over hook-turns and tiny alleys that come out of nowhere in Melbourne though, which give me nothing but anxiety. We do have really good public transport in Sydney though, I will grant you that. Well... except for the quality of at least the trains. They make up for it in efficiency regardless ^ ^; I actually live out in the south western suburbs! Here in Liverpool, NSW. And yes! I pay AUD$520.00 a week along with my partner and his mother for just a smallish 3-bedroom house that's only somewhat close to the CBD. It's still too far off to walk there, you at least have to catch the bus.

OMG do I love Brisbane <3 If I had a choice in the matter of where I could live, I'd choose Brisbane in a heartbeat. I'm so in love with that city! The reasons for it are endless, and way too long for this forum posting alone. And there are Beardies and Water Dragons roaming the streets and invading your house as pests! How cool is that?

Enough of that though, and yes, I currently have a setup just like you describe. The MVB is controlled by its own, more advanced thermostat (a basic model HabiStat by Arcadia) and the CHE is generally on during the day too, whilst also being on its own dedicated thermostat (albeit a really shitty one with HUGE variance). The CHE turns on and off automatically depending on when and if the MVB needs a boost of heat or not, since the current residence I'm in right now (in Sydney) gets quite cold. My partner doesn't believe in heating for us Humans.

I'll invest in a heatpad then either just before I make the move back to Victoria or after I just arrive. The ceramic tiles in Iggy's vivarium are almost a centimeter thick though, will the heating pad still be effective through that much material? I don't want to risk burning him though. Does that object which 'closes the loop' adjust the temperature of the heatpad, without requiring a probe to be in direct contact with it? I'm just asking because I have no idea how these things work.
Need to find a veterinarian that specializes with reptiles? There's a map available here: https://www.vitticeps.org/

We are currently developing an application called HerpLog which is a fast, secure and advanced note-taker, logger, and needs-manager for all your herpetology requirements. Check it out!
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Re: Nighttime temperature?

Postby kingofnobbys » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:23 pm

phobosdthorga wrote:
EllenD wrote:Not necessarily, no. The question becomes "What temperature are you aiming to keep your Dragon at, and how do you know he'll be comfortable"? That's really the essence of this question, because usually when we're discussing "Nighttime Dragon Tank Temperature", we're discussing the "Air" Temperature, as most people are just automatically using either a CHE or some kind of "Night Bulb". Now we all know the problem using an actual light-emitting bulb, so I'm not going to discuss those. However, most people who are adding a CHE at nighttime already have their homes above 65 degrees at night...So assuming that the Dragon's tank is going to be at least 4-5 degrees warmer, on average, than the room their tank is in, most people already have their Dragons in tanks that are already AT THE VERY LEAST at an air temperature of 65 degrees, usually at least 70 degrees...

So this is usually the situation where this question pops-up, and that's where it becomes crucial to make sure that we point this out to new owners, as adding a 50 watt or higher CHE TO RAISE THE AMBIENT/AIR TEMPERATURE OF THEIR DRAGON'S TANK is not only counterproductive, it's often detrimental to their health (often times if you read the posts of new owners, they list a 100 watt CHE "For Nighttime", the problem of which is very evident...

Adding an "Under-tank Heat Mat" to your Dragon's tank is a totally different situation, as generally they do not raise the Ambient/Air Temperature of the tank much at all, but rather the Surface Temperature of the area over-top of the Heat Mat. So that's not typically what is discussed when a new Dragon owner comes on to ask about "Nighttime Heat Sources". So perhaps these are actually 2 completely different topics, as I see nothing at all wrong/detrimental with adding a Heat Mat to your Dragon's tank for the nighttime. It's when people start out with a nighttime air/ambient tank temperature that is already at 65 degrees or above and then they add a CHE to raise the air/ambient nighttime temperature some more that can create a serious issue...I mean, think about it this way...Most Dragons always have a Cool-Side to their tanks to go to all day long that is somewhere between 75-80 degrees F...Obviously their bodies are built to be at a lower AIR temperatures than that at nighttime, but then people add a 50-100 watt CHE to a nighttime tank air temperature that is already 65-70 degrees...This is the issue.


Alright! I'll adjust his nighttime thermostat to suit the new information I've just learned and hopefully he'll improve in his functioning even further from there :) Thank you so much for taking the time to explain all this ^_^ Although I must ask, in what ways exactly is too high a temperature at night detrimental to their health? I just want to know so I can see if Iggy is currently experiencing any 'symptoms', so to speak.

CooperDragon wrote:I would use either method in conjunction with a thermostat to keep better control over the heat and safeguard against malfuctions. As to what their usual range is, I'm not sure. We would have to do more observation and reading of temperatures when they burrow at night. We can guess based on average temperatures across their range (soil temps would be helpful here too) but it's tough to duplicate their natural habitat anyway given space and technology restrictions when they are captive. I can say from experience that the 70-73f/21-22c temperature overnight works based on my own observations. I don't know if that is ideal or not but it allows a cooldown period and seems to keep my dragon happy so I go with that for now until further info becomes available. As with a lot of things they probably have personal preferences so it is probably worthwhile to try out some configurations and observe them to see how they respond.


Of course you would use either method in conjunction with a thermostat, it's basic safety engineering :) My thermostats aren't advanced enough to allow for 'warm-up' or 'cooldown' periods, and lack such a pulsing method of control. I do plan on upgrading to a more advanced thermostat in the future that will control everything within the vivarium, and have PWM control, but I can't afford such luxuries for Iggy right now (hence me moving back in with my parents shortly).

kingofnobbys wrote:I hate Sydney .... the harbor is overrated and the traffic and getting around there is a nightmare.
I live about 1 hour north of Hornsby and do my best to never to drive to Sydney or through the place unless it's absolutely necessary (my son lives / works there and I never go there , he comes home to visit us instead).
Housing in Sydney unless you are way way out in the sticks in the far western or far south western suburbs is way too pricey too.
Mind you , land and house prices here have boomed in the last 10 years as people started commuting daily from my area to Sydney to work.
Been over 15 years since my last Sydney visit.

IMO the best capitals here in Australia are Brisbane , Adelaide , Perth and Darwin , all are much more liveable and nicer (in all ways) and easier to drive around in than Sydney by a long margin. I've particularly loved my visits to Darwin ....

Gets pretty cold in Melbourne in winter ....

In the Victorian climate , even if coastal , I would consider both a heatpad under the hide as per the link above & a ceramic heat emitter for overnight controlled by separate thermostat to keep the tank warmer than 21 degC overnight (I'd run the heatpad and the ceramic heat emitter 24/7 , and have the basking and UVB lights on a timer.
Essentially what will happen during the day is the basking globe and UVB tube will switch on and shortly afterwards the viv will become warm enough for the thermostat controlling the CHE to automatically switch it off based on the remote temperature probes temperature reading in the sleeping area.
If it's a very cold day , the ceramic heat emitter's thermostat may well keep the CHE running (which will give the viv a temperature boost without your needing to upsize the basking globe wattage).


Heatpads :
I use 5W and 7W versions of these : https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Reptile-Hea ... SwQJhUc1E5 , I sandwich the heatpads between secondhand floor or wall tiles ---- evens out the temperatures and avoids direct contact with a heatpad
they are self limited at 38 degC but I close the loop using one of these per heatpad : https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hot-Thermos ... SwsBtaCEmS
I set the thermostat to 36 to 37 degC for my bearded dragons.

The thermostat will not allow the heatpad to get warmer than 37 degC , and if the thermostat fails , it's open circuit so no current reaches the heatpad , which gives a nice safety aspect.

Some of my 7W and 5W heatpads & thermostat sets have been in continuous use for 10 years.

My jumbo Hubbahuts for the beardies and bluetongues sit ontop the tiles that are sandwiching the heatpads. My gang love their nice warm hides at night , especially in winter.


I can easily understand why Sydney is not to some individual's tastes. It's an acquired taste, much like a good wine is ;) Although you might even disagree with that XD And yes, the traffic is HORRENDOUS. I still prefer it over hook-turns and tiny alleys that come out of nowhere in Melbourne though, which give me nothing but anxiety. We do have really good public transport in Sydney though, I will grant you that. Well... except for the quality of at least the trains. They make up for it in efficiency regardless ^ ^; I actually live out in the south western suburbs! Here in Liverpool, NSW. And yes! I pay AUD$520.00 a week along with my partner and his mother for just a smallish 3-bedroom house that's only somewhat close to the CBD. It's still too far off to walk there, you at least have to catch the bus.

OMG do I love Brisbane <3 If I had a choice in the matter of where I could live, I'd choose Brisbane in a heartbeat. I'm so in love with that city! The reasons for it are endless, and way too long for this forum posting alone. And there are Beardies and Water Dragons roaming the streets and invading your house as pests! How cool is that?
<<<< I get regular visits from eastern bluetongues, eastern water skinks and eastern water dragons, as delicate skinks and lined skinks , the water skinks are very cheaky and like to visit inside .


Enough of that though, and yes, I currently have a setup just like you describe. The MVB is controlled by its own, more advanced thermostat (a basic model HabiStat by Arcadia)
you have MVB on a thermostat ?
.... and it still works ???
.... I've been told MVBs don't work well with thermostats (even fancy dimming type thermostats).


and the CHE is generally on during the day too, whilst also being on its own dedicated thermostat (albeit a really shitty one with HUGE variance). The CHE turns on and off automatically depending on when and if the MVB needs a boost of heat or not, since the current residence I'm in right now (in Sydney) gets quite cold. My partner doesn't believe in heating for us Humans.

I'll invest in a heatpad then either just before I make the move back to Victoria or after I just arrive. The ceramic tiles in Iggy's vivarium are almost a centimeter thick though, will the heating pad still be effective through that much material? I don't want to risk burning him though. Does that object which 'closes the loop' adjust the temperature of the heatpad, without requiring a probe to be in direct contact with it? I'm just asking because I have no idea how these things work.
<<< yes but it will take a long time to heat up such thick tiles.
My heatpads are sandwiched between wall tiles (about 4-6 mm thick ??) and work fine.
CBDs: Puff (RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old .
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Re: Nighttime temperature?

Postby phobosdthorga » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:33 am

Awwr, I'm so jelly, kingofnobbys! I'd love to have lizards and skinks, just of any kind, to visit where I live on a regular basis :) But yes, I have a MVB on a thermostat. I've been through one bulb so far and initial findings suggest it does significantly reduce the lifespan of the MVB in the hotter months, but during the colder seasons where it's more-or-less on continually if you choose the right wattage, it doesn't really matter. The thermostat just becomes a safety feature to prevent any overheating, really. My vivarium stays at a stable ambient temperature of around 35 *C and it's the CHE that I turn on and off instead the majority of the time, unless of course it's in the dead of summer.
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Re: Nighttime temperature?

Postby EllenD » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:48 pm

I'll be the touristy American and tell you that the Opera House in Sydney is absolute gorgeous! You have to realize that I live in central Pennsylvania. I'm land-locked. :banghead:

To answer your question about nighttime temperatures that are too high being detrimental to their health, when you're dealing with cold-blooded creatures, their metabolisms, body systems, etc. all function either properly or improperly based on temperature. And just like us, their bodies must rest at night to allow recovery. So if their nighttime temperature is too hot (we can measure "too hot" by the average nighttime temperature of their natural habitat), this totally disrupts their circadian rhythms, keeps them from sleeping soundly (just as lights on at night do, it's the same idea), and assuming that the owner is turning the CHE or night-bulb on every single night, they never sleep well and their bodies never have a chance to rest a recover. Temperature is such a big deal when it comes to all the bodily functions of a Cold-blooded creature it's amazing. We don't think in these terms because we don't have to. If we get too cold we put on more clothing or add a blanket, and if we're too hot we take clothing off or get under a fan. They can't do this. This is why putting a cold Dragon under a blanket doesn't help much to warm them up, they need body heat. So if they are being kept at a nighttime temperature that is keeping their body from resting and recovering every single night, they are naturally going to be everything from lethargic during the day, chronically dehydrated, having irregular bowel movements, a lack of appetite, etc. to even disoriented and confused during the day...Imagine how you feel if you go a couple of days in a row without getting any restful sleep, then add in the dehydration/excessive heat factor to the delirium.
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Re: Nighttime temperature?

Postby phobosdthorga » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:37 pm

EllenD wrote:I'll be the touristy American and tell you that the Opera House in Sydney is absolute gorgeous! You have to realize that I live in central Pennsylvania. I'm land-locked. :banghead:

To answer your question about nighttime temperatures that are too high being detrimental to their health, when you're dealing with cold-blooded creatures, their metabolisms, body systems, etc. all function either properly or improperly based on temperature. And just like us, their bodies must rest at night to allow recovery. So if their nighttime temperature is too hot (we can measure "too hot" by the average nighttime temperature of their natural habitat), this totally disrupts their circadian rhythms, keeps them from sleeping soundly (just as lights on at night do, it's the same idea), and assuming that the owner is turning the CHE or night-bulb on every single night, they never sleep well and their bodies never have a chance to rest a recover. Temperature is such a big deal when it comes to all the bodily functions of a Cold-blooded creature it's amazing. We don't think in these terms because we don't have to. If we get too cold we put on more clothing or add a blanket, and if we're too hot we take clothing off or get under a fan. They can't do this. This is why putting a cold Dragon under a blanket doesn't help much to warm them up, they need body heat. So if they are being kept at a nighttime temperature that is keeping their body from resting and recovering every single night, they are naturally going to be everything from lethargic during the day, chronically dehydrated, having irregular bowel movements, a lack of appetite, etc. to even disoriented and confused during the day...Imagine how you feel if you go a couple of days in a row without getting any restful sleep, then add in the dehydration/excessive heat factor to the delirium.


Sorry for the late reply, I haven't really been with it lately, mentally. Been kind'a down :( That explains a lot with what I have both observed and experienced with my Bearded Dragon, Iggus, though. So thank you for taking the time to explain all that. As such, since you have posted that I have been keeping his nighttime temperatures around 20-25 *C every night. I actually brought this up at the local exotics pet-shop a week ago and the 'resident expert' said in a very stern voice this is clearly the wrong thing to do, and I should cease doing such immediately. They MUST be kept at their daytime temperature every night of the year. I will say it is hard hearing so much contradictory advice from everyone, but I do trust the people in this forum far more than those so-called 'experts' at that pet-store. They have multiple males in the one vivarium for crying out loud! They're permanently black-bearding and bobbing their heads, the poor things :( They must be under so much stress. But literally, every time I visit, they are ALWAYS black-bearding.
Need to find a veterinarian that specializes with reptiles? There's a map available here: https://www.vitticeps.org/

We are currently developing an application called HerpLog which is a fast, secure and advanced note-taker, logger, and needs-manager for all your herpetology requirements. Check it out!
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Re: Nighttime temperature?

Postby DanielKnarr » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:12 pm

Very true!!
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