Hyper dominant

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Hyper dominant

Postby Cturner » Fri May 25, 2018 12:10 am

Hi there i had always thought of myself as being a very knowledgable bd owner giving other people advice from time to time. The problem i have with my bd has stumped even me.... my beardie has full access to the house ... he always has done ... he is nearly 6 years old and his problems have only came to light in the last 2 and half years. In the last 2 years he has been costantly head bobbing with black beard... he does not sit still ... he climbs the couch and head bobbs out the window for a spell then climbs back down and goes into his tank ... then comes back out and goes into the kitchen then back into his tank then back onto the couch periodically stopping to head bob. The cycle continues most days pretty much all day.... he also attacks the female cat... he hates her for some reason .... we have another 2 cats (male) and 2 rabbits in the garden that he doesnt bother with. Its driving my family nuts ... he doesnt seem a happy beardie anymore. I considered he might need neutered but vets are unlikely to do it on such a small animal. Any experts out there with advice please respond ..... thank u
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Re: Hyper dominant

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri May 25, 2018 3:51 am

Keep the cats away from him.

Very likely the cat has attacked him and he remembers this and is telling the cat to keep away .

The bearded dragon is not the dragon, it's the cat who he is very scared off .
CBDs: Puff (RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old .
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Re: Hyper dominant

Postby Cturner » Fri May 25, 2018 5:06 am

The cats are placid.. the 3 of them avoid him at all costs. Its only the female he attacks and she scared of her own shadow . My beardie will take a pop at the male cats and also the rabbits if thay are in his way. But he has a personal grievence towards the female cat. He even went for her kittens a year ago. I do know if its her colouration or if she is giving off pheromones that he is picking up. He will actually charge past the male cats to get to her. I have never seen anything like it. Thank you very much for taking the time to reply and i know u can only get a vivid picture of the issue but the cats are wimps he is definitley the bully
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Re: Hyper dominant

Postby Gormagon » Fri May 25, 2018 5:38 pm

All I can add to this is, you were told why he is doing it and, I agree with Kingofnobbys.
Never allow cats anywhere near your dragon, it is a dangerous practice. Ignoring the warning signs wont' stop the issue at hand. He is acting this way in self defense.
I am not posting this to upset you, I am posting this to relieve your dragons STRESS level and, possibly save his life and, you some heartache!!!!!!!
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The wonderful world of bearded dragons is a magical land of mystery, enchantment, cuddles, love and, worry! A mysterious realm where things always seem to change in an instant and, the moment you think you have it all figured out, the rules change! You think you own your dragon, guess again. You are now a slave!!!
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Re: Hyper dominant

Postby Cturner » Fri May 25, 2018 7:17 pm

Again this is not the issue. If u had met my cats you would see for yourself how off your conclusion is. The cats have never bothered him. He gives off no smell and hes not a food source ... the only time they notice him is when he is charging at the female. His constant head bobbing and unsettled behaviour occurs even when the cats arent in the house. Like i said he will even take a pop at the rabbits if they are in his way. Now as i understand it there are 2 variations of head bob.... 1 is a fast head bob used as a terratorial threat and 2 is a slower head bob used to attract a mate. He will display no. 1 when the female cat is around and the rest of the time its 2. Its like he is looking to be top dog and patrolling the house to see who he can dominate next.
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Re: Hyper dominant

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri May 25, 2018 8:08 pm

Cturner wrote:Again this is not the issue. If u had met my cats you would see for yourself how off your conclusion is. The cats have never bothered him. He gives off no smell and hes not a food source ... the only time they notice him is when he is charging at the female. His constant head bobbing and unsettled behaviour occurs even when the cats arent in the house. Like i said he will even take a pop at the rabbits if they are in his way. Now as i understand it there are 2 variations of head bob.... 1 is a fast head bob used as a terratorial threat and 2 is a slower head bob used to attract a mate. He will display no. 1 when the female cat is around and the rest of the time its 2. Its like he is looking to be top dog and patrolling the house to see who he can dominate next.

Are you around and watching 24 hours per day ?

cats are very sneaky .... they will wait until their owner is not in sight and do things they know you wont let them do when you are around and watching and ALL CATS are hardwired to hunt and torture and kill smaller animals .

For the dragon, it's encountering an apex predator when ever it even sees a cat and it's natural response is to run and hide or freeze (out of fear) or if cornered and it can't elude the cat , to try to bluff it into leaving him alone ....
He is reacting when the cats are out of sight because he knows they are around somewhere and has likely been ambused by a cat (they do remember these incidents) and he can still smell and taste them on every surface he has access to.

You are living in a fool's paradise. Please ensure the cats are never present when he's out of his tank.

Unless you get serious about protecting your dragon , this IS GOING TO END BLOODILY AND BADLY for the dragon , I can guarantee this.
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Fri May 25, 2018 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CBDs: Puff (RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old .
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Re: Hyper dominant

Postby VenusAndSaturn » Fri May 25, 2018 9:11 pm

Look you love your cats, you love your dragon. I love my cats and I love every single one of my reptiles. However, even with my cat that is the best behaved out of the four, I wouldn't trust her alone with any of them. They have instincts to hunt, its just how they are. And small animals are their prey and sometimes they can just suddenly snap in a way and go after your small animal, whether this is a beardie, another reptile, a bird or a rodent it's on their food list if they can take it down.

Just like how a beardie will kill another beardie out of nowhere and then most likely than not it will then eat the other, even though they appeared to be "friends".

Also, do note it is breeding season for these guys so hormones will be high for a while and you'll see tons of head bobbing. Although I wouldn't dismiss this as just hormones if he's always or at least most of the time able to see the cats.
1.2.0 CBD, Saturn 27 Months, Venus 27 Months, Neptune 16 Months.
0.0.1 IBTS, Turtle 14 Months. 0.1.0 BP, Spice 11 Months.
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Re: Hyper dominant

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri May 25, 2018 9:20 pm

VenusAndSaturn wrote:Look you love your cats, you love your dragon. I love my cats and I love every single one of my reptiles. However, even with my cat that is the best behaved out of the four, I wouldn't trust her alone with any of them. They have instincts to hunt, its just how they are. And small animals are their prey and sometimes they can just suddenly snap in a way and go after your small animal, whether this is a beardie, another reptile, a bird or a rodent it's on their food list if they can take it down.

Just like how a beardie will kill another beardie out of nowhere and then most likely than not it will then eat the other, even though they appeared to be "friends".

Also, do note it is breeding season for these guys so hormones will be high for a while and you'll see tons of head bobbing. Although I wouldn't dismiss this as just hormones if he's always or at least most of the time able to see the cats.



How would feel if you were forced to live in a pit with a gang of tigers, or lions, or polar bears, or velociraptors, or 5m long esterine crocodiles or nile crocodiles.....?
..... you might be able to hide or evade them for a while but eventually you WILL be killed and eaten by them.

This is exactly the situation your bearded dragon finds himself in .... he is in constant fear, hyper vigilent, and constantly extremely highly stressed all be cause his human is delusional about the cats being harmless and friendly towards him.
CBDs: Puff (RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old .
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Re: Hyper dominant

Postby Cturner » Fri May 25, 2018 11:03 pm

I wouldnt say i was delusional. I am well aware that cats are apex predators. I got the cats 3 months before i got my beardie. They have been living together for nearly 6 years. They are familiar sights to each other. I wish i could post a video on here to let you see exactly what is going on. My beardie is not terified and certainly doesnt freeze with fear. He doesnt bother with the male cats at all its just the female he will attack. She could be sitting on the other side of the room minding her own business and if she is in his eyeline then he will charge. Its the cats who are scared of the dragon they avoid him at all costs they wont even walk past him. Up until the female cat was pregnant thats when my beardie started to display these behaviours (that was 2 years ago).

I am well aware that beardies go into breeding season and the head bobbing is rife at this stage ... he even gets the pheromonal nodes on his hind legs however i have never known the breeding season to last 2 years .... the head bobbing that he is displaying is fast along with his dark beard is signs that its a terratorial head bob. He is clearly trying to defend his terratory and i dont know why its the female he is going after.

I am not some pathetic beardie owner. I would never put any animal at risk without properly evaluating the situation. The cats are out of the house when the family is at school or work.
When the cats are in the house with us they have shown no interest in the beardie whatsoever. I think after all these years that they might have given some indication to us they were going to kill or attack him. If that was the case then i would have taken the necessary steps to ensure safety.
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Re: Hyper dominant

Postby Cturner » Fri May 25, 2018 11:31 pm

This is not signs of a dragon living in fear. He doesnt puff out his beard with his mouth open and backs away. This is full attack mode. Hes annoyed that something has came into his area hence the black beard and makes a charge for it (the female cat) the cats are terrified of him especially the female.
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Re: Hyper dominant

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri May 25, 2018 11:55 pm

Cturner wrote:This is not signs of a dragon living in fear. He doesnt puff out his beard with his mouth open and backs away. This is full attack mode. Hes annoyed that something has came into his area hence the black beard and makes a charge for it (the female cat) the cats are terrified of him especially the female.


Sorry , but how many wild bearded dragons have you seen in the wild ?
I've seen lots (easterns (local), centrals & rankins , and westerns when I was working as a contractor and living in NQLD and the Pilbara, and loads when I've done the grey nomad thing ), I live in their natural range and often see bearded dragons when bushwalking, herping, picnicking, driving the 4x4 on very rough 4x4 trails at the national parks and when going to fish on the local beaches and rock headlands.

His behavior is DEFINITELY fear / stress induced by the presence of what he sees as a predator / dangerous larger animal/s AND HIS INABILITY TO ESCAPE.

You need to listen to people who are MUCH MORE EXPERiENCED and knowledgeable about this and stop being defensive , we want your dragon be save and happy and for this happen you need to take on board what I and others have told you and take APPROPRIATE ACTIONS to keep the cats and dragon away from each other (and ensure they never meet).
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Sat May 26, 2018 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
CBDs: Puff (RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old .
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Re: Hyper dominant

Postby Cturner » Sat May 26, 2018 12:04 am

So why has this just happened in the last 2 years then and why is it that its only the female he goes for ???.
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Re: Hyper dominant

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat May 26, 2018 12:18 am

Cturner wrote:So why has this just happened in the last 2 years then and why is it that its only the female he goes for ???.


See my earlier post .... very likely he's been ambushed and attacked by one of adult cats or a kitten and this scared him , even if he wasn't scratched , clawed or bitten (very lucky there) and he remembers it and no longer trusts cats (or the offending cat), dragons have long very good memories and a very smart .

You must never let him encounter the animal he is scared off ever again.

When I was a kid about 11 yrs old , my dad brought home (by accident) a wild eastern bearded dragon which had scurried across the dirt road we were driving on straight under the car as we were driving by. We found it under the back fender when we got home (it's tail was dangling and this gave it away), I adopted it and it become my pet and very tame , it hated my baby sister (who was 4 years younger) for some reason and would do exactly what you are describing and only to her , the family dog, and the family cat , everyone else it was calm and relaxed with.

Turned out she had gone into the big bird aviary style cage with the pet budgies , finches and the lorikeets (in our back yard remember I live in the natural range of bearded dragons) to "play with" the big lizard and had been poking it with sticks and Barby dolls, it was scared of her.
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Sat May 26, 2018 12:27 am, edited 3 times in total.
CBDs: Puff (RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old .
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Re: Hyper dominant

Postby Cturner » Sat May 26, 2018 12:24 am

Well we will need to agree to disagree on that. The female cat is afraid of her own shadow... she even runs from the birds in the back yard. In 6 years she never gave any indication of intent to injure or kill my beardie..... i like to think that in that timescale i would have noticed something...... thanks for your advice anyway
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Re: Hyper dominant

Postby VenusAndSaturn » Sat May 26, 2018 12:44 am

I mean, when I had hamsters one of our cats was absolutely terrified of her. (Oddly wasn't scared of mice...just hamsters and only this hamster) However, If I probably let them alone together at all she would have definitely "played" with the hamster till it died of injuries. Either that or scared it so bad it had a panic attack and died.. but luckily little 6-8 year old me didn't do such things (not implying anything so don't get defensive).

You do not know how this cat thinks entirely, you may see a bit of the personality of this particular cat but not the true nature of it. Reptiles get stressed out very easily and can even die by stress so I'd avoid having this beardie put under further stress. At the very least you can do is make sure that particular cat never goes near this dragon... and if you want to go one step further you could even make sure no cats go near it. It's as simple as that, I'd at the very least give it a try.
1.2.0 CBD, Saturn 27 Months, Venus 27 Months, Neptune 16 Months.
0.0.1 IBTS, Turtle 14 Months. 0.1.0 BP, Spice 11 Months.
0.1.0 LG, Delilah 12 Months. 0.1.0 Ultra Purple Tegu, Oreo 10 months.
-Former scaley family members-
1.0.1 CBD, Lilly (died due to impaction, 1-2 months), Lola (Originally thought to be female, 5-10+ years, possibly died of impaction)
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