Requiemk626
Member
Hi everyone,
I have an old beardie, Osiris, and he's not been doing too well. I've been meeting regularly with a new vet about his issues, and I think the vet is really good, but I wanted to post on here and see if anyone had been through the same issues. At the very least, if this is really the end for Osiris maybe there will be some useful information in here for others.
Let me just get out of the way, I'm good on the tank setup/ feeding front. Used the care sheets years ago when I set up and have monitored regularly since, and vet agrees that care is all good.
Osiris is about 10 years old now. I've had him since he was roughly the size of my pinkie finger, and he's always been a very sturdy, healthy lizard, up until two weeks ago. It was then that I noticed he had lost a little bit of volume on the fat pads on the back of his head. I lost my other beardie two years ago, when she was also 10. Her illness started with some dramatic weight loss that also could be seen in the same loss of fat pads on her head. So I took Osiris in to the vet two weeks ago, trying to get ahead of what ever might be brewing.
We did a stool sample, blood sample, and x-ray. Stool sample came back positive for pin worms, so we put him on panacure. Blood sample came back as very anemic, but no other stand outs in data. His liver and kidney function are good, white urates.
On the x-ray we found two disturbing things. The x-ray showed that he had two mineral dense small objects in his stomach. This came as a huge surprise to me because he has never been on any granular substrate (we do paper towels), and he does not run around unsupervised, and he is not the sort to try to eat anything that is not actively wiggling. I noticed later that the clay hide I bought him from the pet store years ago (which he loves...sigh) had some texture that might have flaked off, and it's conceivable that it flaked into his food dish, maybe. The other concerning thing is that we could feel two quarter size lumps in his abdomen. I had felt them about two months ago when giving him a tummy massage in the bath when he was a little constipated, but I thought they were just parts of the digestive tract! The doc said that they are firmer and less movable than he would expect any waste to be. So, with the combined lumps and anemia, we're suspecting cancer. We scheduled an ultrasound for two weeks out, with possible fine needle aspiration/biopsy to figure out whether those lumps really are cancer, and if so what type, and if it's operable. The vet wanted to address the anemia immediately, but he also wanted to look into research concerning erythropoetic stimulating agents (red blood cell forming agents) that might work on reptiles, which we could use instead of a blood transfusion.(Update: no, they do not work well enough that he'd want to use it on Osiris. From what I read, Epoetin alfa/beta and darbapoetin also carry the risk of seizure in dogs, and in other studies can aggravate certain cancers).
So far, the tests and vet visit cost $400 (I'm not complaining, just putting that in for reference in case anyone's curious. Visit itself was cheaper than tests, only $61).
A week later, we've started him on panacure, and then he completely stops eating. We start doing soaks in the tub every evening, but he's not interested in drinking. I start to see him really losing weight, so I buy the Fluker's carnivore boost and some Critical care herbivore boost. Based on the instructions with the Fluker's powder, I mix the powers half and half with enough water to make it into a paste and try to feed him 6 ml. In retrospect, I think I overloaded his stomach. He puked, but luckily did not aspirate. He looked a little rough, so I cleaned him up and snuggled him for a little while. He bounced back in about 30 minutes.
The next day I decreased the volume I syringe fed him to 2 ml. He seemed fine with that. After a few hours I gave him a bath, and he drank the water like he was suuuuper thirsty. And then he puked it all back up-- I think in his thirstiness, he overloaded his own stomach. The next day we tried the 2 ml again, bathed him, but took him out as soon as he tried to drink. Still, he puked, and there was blood in the vomit this time. Called the vet, told him all this.
The next day I took him back in to the vet, updated him, and the vet gave him fluids to try to stabilize Osiris until the ultrasound, which at that time was the day after tomorrow. We agreed to discontinue panacure for now. The vet said that the blood was from an ulcer he probably developed in his stomach, probably not from lacerations from the mineralized things that showed up on the x-ray.
Osiris is generally a very, very chilled out boy. But I think the injection of fluids into what is basically the back leg crotch really upset him. He was tolerating riding in his crate in the car well, but on the way home after getting fluids, for the first time he did not seem himself. He just seemed kind of crazed. I snuggled him for a few minutes, and he calmed down a little, but for the entire rest of that day he was jet-black-bearding, which I have very, very rarely seen him do. His skin is also bright, like when he goes into fight or flight mode. He's been that way all day today too, though a slightly less black bearded. I've not handled him at all today in an effort to not stress him, and to not make him puke again.
I'm really trying to walk a fine line between pushing fluids and food and still not stressing him, because I know that can be bad for their health too, especially as they get old or are dealing with compromised systems.
So tomorrow I'm taking him in for the ultrasound. At this point, my goal is to do everything I can that will improve his quality of life, but do nothing that makes him needlessly suffer. I'm just curious about surgery. I've never had a lizard go through that, nonetheless a 10 year old lizard that has lost a lot of weight.
Basically, if we biopsy the lumps tomorrow and they are 1) removable abcess, 2) removable benign cancerous growths, I would be open to paying for surgery if I thought he had a prayer of recovery. I might even pay for it just to get those stones out of his stomach so what time he has left isn't painful from that junk in there. But I don't want to put him through the scariness of surgery if he's just going to die on the table or shortly thereafter while in pain from healing from an operation. If anyone has had any experience with getting their lizards through surgery and recovery, please let me know! I'd love to hear your stories!
Thanks for listening
- Requiemk626
I have an old beardie, Osiris, and he's not been doing too well. I've been meeting regularly with a new vet about his issues, and I think the vet is really good, but I wanted to post on here and see if anyone had been through the same issues. At the very least, if this is really the end for Osiris maybe there will be some useful information in here for others.
Let me just get out of the way, I'm good on the tank setup/ feeding front. Used the care sheets years ago when I set up and have monitored regularly since, and vet agrees that care is all good.
Osiris is about 10 years old now. I've had him since he was roughly the size of my pinkie finger, and he's always been a very sturdy, healthy lizard, up until two weeks ago. It was then that I noticed he had lost a little bit of volume on the fat pads on the back of his head. I lost my other beardie two years ago, when she was also 10. Her illness started with some dramatic weight loss that also could be seen in the same loss of fat pads on her head. So I took Osiris in to the vet two weeks ago, trying to get ahead of what ever might be brewing.
We did a stool sample, blood sample, and x-ray. Stool sample came back positive for pin worms, so we put him on panacure. Blood sample came back as very anemic, but no other stand outs in data. His liver and kidney function are good, white urates.
On the x-ray we found two disturbing things. The x-ray showed that he had two mineral dense small objects in his stomach. This came as a huge surprise to me because he has never been on any granular substrate (we do paper towels), and he does not run around unsupervised, and he is not the sort to try to eat anything that is not actively wiggling. I noticed later that the clay hide I bought him from the pet store years ago (which he loves...sigh) had some texture that might have flaked off, and it's conceivable that it flaked into his food dish, maybe. The other concerning thing is that we could feel two quarter size lumps in his abdomen. I had felt them about two months ago when giving him a tummy massage in the bath when he was a little constipated, but I thought they were just parts of the digestive tract! The doc said that they are firmer and less movable than he would expect any waste to be. So, with the combined lumps and anemia, we're suspecting cancer. We scheduled an ultrasound for two weeks out, with possible fine needle aspiration/biopsy to figure out whether those lumps really are cancer, and if so what type, and if it's operable. The vet wanted to address the anemia immediately, but he also wanted to look into research concerning erythropoetic stimulating agents (red blood cell forming agents) that might work on reptiles, which we could use instead of a blood transfusion.(Update: no, they do not work well enough that he'd want to use it on Osiris. From what I read, Epoetin alfa/beta and darbapoetin also carry the risk of seizure in dogs, and in other studies can aggravate certain cancers).
So far, the tests and vet visit cost $400 (I'm not complaining, just putting that in for reference in case anyone's curious. Visit itself was cheaper than tests, only $61).
A week later, we've started him on panacure, and then he completely stops eating. We start doing soaks in the tub every evening, but he's not interested in drinking. I start to see him really losing weight, so I buy the Fluker's carnivore boost and some Critical care herbivore boost. Based on the instructions with the Fluker's powder, I mix the powers half and half with enough water to make it into a paste and try to feed him 6 ml. In retrospect, I think I overloaded his stomach. He puked, but luckily did not aspirate. He looked a little rough, so I cleaned him up and snuggled him for a little while. He bounced back in about 30 minutes.
The next day I decreased the volume I syringe fed him to 2 ml. He seemed fine with that. After a few hours I gave him a bath, and he drank the water like he was suuuuper thirsty. And then he puked it all back up-- I think in his thirstiness, he overloaded his own stomach. The next day we tried the 2 ml again, bathed him, but took him out as soon as he tried to drink. Still, he puked, and there was blood in the vomit this time. Called the vet, told him all this.
The next day I took him back in to the vet, updated him, and the vet gave him fluids to try to stabilize Osiris until the ultrasound, which at that time was the day after tomorrow. We agreed to discontinue panacure for now. The vet said that the blood was from an ulcer he probably developed in his stomach, probably not from lacerations from the mineralized things that showed up on the x-ray.
Osiris is generally a very, very chilled out boy. But I think the injection of fluids into what is basically the back leg crotch really upset him. He was tolerating riding in his crate in the car well, but on the way home after getting fluids, for the first time he did not seem himself. He just seemed kind of crazed. I snuggled him for a few minutes, and he calmed down a little, but for the entire rest of that day he was jet-black-bearding, which I have very, very rarely seen him do. His skin is also bright, like when he goes into fight or flight mode. He's been that way all day today too, though a slightly less black bearded. I've not handled him at all today in an effort to not stress him, and to not make him puke again.
I'm really trying to walk a fine line between pushing fluids and food and still not stressing him, because I know that can be bad for their health too, especially as they get old or are dealing with compromised systems.
So tomorrow I'm taking him in for the ultrasound. At this point, my goal is to do everything I can that will improve his quality of life, but do nothing that makes him needlessly suffer. I'm just curious about surgery. I've never had a lizard go through that, nonetheless a 10 year old lizard that has lost a lot of weight.
Basically, if we biopsy the lumps tomorrow and they are 1) removable abcess, 2) removable benign cancerous growths, I would be open to paying for surgery if I thought he had a prayer of recovery. I might even pay for it just to get those stones out of his stomach so what time he has left isn't painful from that junk in there. But I don't want to put him through the scariness of surgery if he's just going to die on the table or shortly thereafter while in pain from healing from an operation. If anyone has had any experience with getting their lizards through surgery and recovery, please let me know! I'd love to hear your stories!
Thanks for listening
- Requiemk626