Comparison of common feeders

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Comparison of common feeders

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:57 am

Image

correct figures for silkworms
% protein = 53.8% (dry basis)
and 82.7% moisture.

Blowfly gents
H20 = 68.1%
fat = 7.8%
Protein = 15.6%
Ca/P = 0.36

HORNWORMS:
Moisture = 85%
Fat = 3%
Protein = 9%
9/15 = 60% protein (dry basis)
Ca/P = 0.333



Please feel free to add data or correct data.
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:26 am, edited 12 times in total.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: Comparison of common feeders

Postby CooperDragon » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:33 pm

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Re: Comparison of common feeders

Postby kingofnobbys » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:05 am

Image
Image
Image
Ref http://www.moonvalleyreptiles.com/crest ... er-insects

I never knew isopods were extremely rich in Calcium , Ca/P = 12.1
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: Comparison of common feeders

Postby CooperDragon » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:42 am

Wow, that's an impressive ratio!
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Re: Comparison of common feeders

Postby kingofnobbys » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:28 am

CooperDragon wrote:Wow, that's an impressive ratio!


Too bad their exoskeletons are like armourplating ....
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: Comparison of common feeders

Postby CooperDragon » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:07 am

Yeah. If they can manage through a few of them now and then, it might be good for dental health the way the morio worm beetles are.
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Re: Comparison of common feeders

Postby Taterbug » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:20 pm

There are lots of varieties of isopods, even the hard shelled rolly polly type owns (Armadillidium spp.) aren't any harder than other feeders. Pepper makes quick work of them and will wait for them to come out to be picked off when I water his setup. There are many species available and they are rather simple to culture.... but probaly much slower than roaches/BSFL/morio worms.
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Re: Comparison of common feeders

Postby AHBD » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:01 am

I've used the isopods at times as well, the [ roly poly ] and some of my dragons really enjoy them.
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Re: Comparison of common feeders

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:52 pm

A medium sized silkworm will be about 2in long and is a lot of protein cf a medium sized cricket

A 30mm long silkworm is 0.5g = 2-3 medium crickets (12x MED = 3g)
A 40mm long silkworm is 1.3g = 5-6 medium crickets
a 2 inch long silkworm is 1.8g
a large silkworm about 3in is 2.3g = 8 - 10 medium crickets
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: Comparison of common feeders

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:38 am

CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
kingofnobbys
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Re: Comparison of common feeders

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:22 pm

more info on Butterworms

Being wild-caught, Butterworms likely provide nutrients absent from commercially-reared insects. They also exceed all other typical feeder insects in calcium content (please see Introduction, above), with only silkworms and phoenix worms approaching them in this regard (some find silkworms to be delicate, and phoenix worms are quite small, but both are also worth investigating).
The Butterworm’s protein content of 16.2% is on par with that of crickets, phoenix worms and waxworms, and below that provided by silkworms and roaches. Fat content stands at 5.21%, which is less than (considerably so, in many cases) that of all other commonly-used feeders.

extract from http://blogs.thatpetplace.com/thatrepti ... cn-RjGsWHs
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: Comparison of common feeders

Postby CooperDragon » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:42 am

There is a lot of conflicting info to sift through about Butterworms. This chart shows them at 29.4% fat and 15.5% protein. I'm not sure how accurate these results are either http://www.geckotime.com/nutritional-value-of-commercially-raised-insects/

There has been discussion about this in the past that didn't really come to a solid conclusion but lead me to stop offering them as a feeder on a regular basis although they are probably fine as part of a varied diet as are most things with moderation.
https://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=203509&start=30
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Re: Comparison of common feeders

Postby kingofnobbys » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:00 am

CooperDragon wrote:There is a lot of conflicting info to sift through about Butterworms. This chart shows them at 29.4% fat and 15.5% protein. I'm not sure how accurate these results are either http://www.geckotime.com/nutritional-value-of-commercially-raised-insects/

There has been discussion about this in the past that didn't really come to a solid conclusion but lead me to stop offering them as a feeder on a regular basis although they are probably fine as part of a varied diet as are most things with moderation.
https://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=203509&start=30



I''d be inclined to believe the data that is published by someone who is not trying to sell them. They wont have an vested interest and are less likely to tell porkies.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
kingofnobbys
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Re: Comparison of common feeders

Postby kingofnobbys » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:23 pm

I've a good pocket assayers' scale (weighs +/- 0.05g) and I did a comparison at one stage that you might find helpful to work out how many of different sizes silkworms to buy as an alternative insect protein source for your bearded dragon , see below
Image
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
kingofnobbys
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Re: Comparison of common feeders

Postby Taterbug » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:55 am

kingofnobbys wrote:
CooperDragon wrote:There is a lot of conflicting info to sift through about Butterworms. This chart shows them at 29.4% fat and 15.5% protein. I'm not sure how accurate these results are either http://www.geckotime.com/nutritional-value-of-commercially-raised-insects/

There has been discussion about this in the past that didn't really come to a solid conclusion but lead me to stop offering them as a feeder on a regular basis although they are probably fine as part of a varied diet as are most things with moderation.
https://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=203509&start=30



I''d be inclined to believe the data that is published by someone who is not trying to sell them. They wont have an vested interest and are less likely to tell porkies.


There are really only two data sets out there.

That first link is about as accurate as it gets. The author is a researcher who has many publications in the field of insectivores nutrition and insect nutritional content. I’ve corresponded with him on numerous occasions, starting with this exact topic.

The second link doesn’t cite its source at all, but the data stating that butterworms have a low fat content goes back to the vendors which was provided to them by the chillean exporters, regardless of what site the data is found on. That data is also inaccurate. Mathematically the values do not pass a basic test (fat+protein+ash+moisture = 100%). Even without a vested interest in these bugs that data has been spread around the internet a lot. It is in this forum and numerous others; all without any corroboration or with sources that all basically go back to vendors selling the bugs.

Physiologically butterworms do not posses the means to have such a high calcium content, unlike isopods and black soldierfly larvae. Insect larvae that do not need to eat for long periods of time, tend to be high in fat to meet their energy needs.
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