EllenD":2faznt9u said:
Not necessarily, no. The question becomes "What temperature are you aiming to keep your Dragon at, and how do you know he'll be comfortable"? That's really the essence of this question, because usually when we're discussing "Nighttime Dragon Tank Temperature", we're discussing the "Air" Temperature, as most people are just automatically using either a CHE or some kind of "Night Bulb". Now we all know the problem using an actual light-emitting bulb, so I'm not going to discuss those. However, most people who are adding a CHE at nighttime already have their homes above 65 degrees at night...So assuming that the Dragon's tank is going to be at least 4-5 degrees warmer, on average, than the room their tank is in, most people already have their Dragons in tanks that are already AT THE VERY LEAST at an air temperature of 65 degrees, usually at least 70 degrees...
So this is usually the situation where this question pops-up, and that's where it becomes crucial to make sure that we point this out to new owners, as adding a 50 watt or higher CHE TO RAISE THE AMBIENT/AIR TEMPERATURE OF THEIR DRAGON'S TANK is not only counterproductive, it's often detrimental to their health (often times if you read the posts of new owners, they list a 100 watt CHE "For Nighttime", the problem of which is very evident...
Adding an "Under-tank Heat Mat" to your Dragon's tank is a totally different situation, as generally they do not raise the Ambient/Air Temperature of the tank much at all, but rather the Surface Temperature of the area over-top of the Heat Mat. So that's not typically what is discussed when a new Dragon owner comes on to ask about "Nighttime Heat Sources". So perhaps these are actually 2 completely different topics, as I see nothing at all wrong/detrimental with adding a Heat Mat to your Dragon's tank for the nighttime. It's when people start out with a nighttime air/ambient tank temperature that is already at 65 degrees or above and then they add a CHE to raise the air/ambient nighttime temperature some more that can create a serious issue...I mean, think about it this way...Most Dragons always have a Cool-Side to their tanks to go to all day long that is somewhere between 75-80 degrees F...Obviously their bodies are built to be at a lower AIR temperatures than that at nighttime, but then people add a 50-100 watt CHE to a nighttime tank air temperature that is already 65-70 degrees...This is the issue.
Alright! I'll adjust his nighttime thermostat to suit the new information I've just learned and hopefully he'll improve in his functioning even further from there
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain all this ^_^ Although I must ask, in what ways
exactly is too high a temperature at night detrimental to their health? I just want to know so I can see if Iggy is currently experiencing any 'symptoms', so to speak.
CooperDragon":2faznt9u said:
I would use either method in conjunction with a thermostat to keep better control over the heat and safeguard against malfuctions. As to what their usual range is, I'm not sure. We would have to do more observation and reading of temperatures when they burrow at night. We can guess based on average temperatures across their range (soil temps would be helpful here too) but it's tough to duplicate their natural habitat anyway given space and technology restrictions when they are captive. I can say from experience that the 70-73f/21-22c temperature overnight works based on my own observations. I don't know if that is ideal or not but it allows a cooldown period and seems to keep my dragon happy so I go with that for now until further info becomes available. As with a lot of things they probably have personal preferences so it is probably worthwhile to try out some configurations and observe them to see how they respond.
Of course you would use either method in conjunction with a thermostat, it's basic safety engineering
My thermostats aren't advanced enough to allow for 'warm-up' or 'cooldown' periods, and lack such a pulsing method of control. I do plan on upgrading to a more advanced thermostat in the future that will control
everything within the vivarium, and have PWM control, but I can't afford such luxuries for Iggy right now (hence me moving back in with my parents shortly).
kingofnobbys":2faznt9u said:
I hate Sydney .... the harbor is overrated and the traffic and getting around there is a nightmare.
I live about 1 hour north of Hornsby and do my best to never to drive to Sydney or through the place unless it's absolutely necessary (my son lives / works there and I never go there , he comes home to visit us instead).
Housing in Sydney unless you are way way out in the sticks in the far western or far south western suburbs is way too pricey too.
Mind you , land and house prices here have boomed in the last 10 years as people started commuting daily from my area to Sydney to work.
Been over 15 years since my last Sydney visit.
IMO the best capitals here in Australia are Brisbane , Adelaide , Perth and Darwin , all are much more liveable and nicer (in all ways) and easier to drive around in than Sydney by a long margin. I've particularly loved my visits to Darwin ....
Gets pretty cold in Melbourne in winter ....
In the Victorian climate , even if coastal , I would consider both a heatpad under the hide as per the link above & a ceramic heat emitter for overnight controlled by separate thermostat to keep the tank warmer than 21 degC overnight (I'd run the heatpad and the ceramic heat emitter 24/7 , and have the basking and UVB lights on a timer.
Essentially what will happen during the day is the basking globe and UVB tube will switch on and shortly afterwards the viv will become warm enough for the thermostat controlling the CHE to automatically switch it off based on the remote temperature probes temperature reading in the sleeping area.
If it's a very cold day , the ceramic heat emitter's thermostat may well keep the CHE running (which will give the viv a temperature boost without your needing to upsize the basking globe wattage).
Heatpads :
I use 5W and 7W versions of these :
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Reptile-Heat-Mat-Pad-Snake-Lizard-Hermit-Crab-7-Watt/271682536325?epid=1291573802&hash=item3f418a8385:g , I sandwich the heatpads between secondhand floor or wall tiles ---- evens out the temperatures and avoids direct contact with a heatpad
they are self limited at 38 degC but I close the loop using one of these per heatpad :
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hot-Thermostat-Digital-For-Reptile-Lizard-Snake-Heat-Mat-Lamp-Incubator-Aquarium/112801440259?epid=2120099318&hash=item1a437d6203:g
I set the thermostat to 36 to 37 degC for my bearded dragons.
The thermostat will not allow the heatpad to get warmer than 37 degC , and if the thermostat fails , it's open circuit so no current reaches the heatpad , which gives a nice safety aspect.
Some of my 7W and 5W heatpads & thermostat sets have been in continuous use for 10 years.
My jumbo Hubbahuts for the beardies and bluetongues sit ontop the tiles that are sandwiching the heatpads. My gang love their nice warm hides at night , especially in winter.
I can easily understand why Sydney is not to some individual's tastes. It's an acquired taste, much like a good wine is
Although you might even disagree with that XD And yes, the traffic is HORRENDOUS. I still prefer it over hook-turns and tiny alleys that come out of nowhere in Melbourne though, which give me nothing but anxiety. We do have really good public transport in Sydney though, I will grant you that. Well... except for the
quality of at least the trains. They make up for it in
efficiency regardless ^ ^; I actually live out in the south western suburbs! Here in Liverpool, NSW. And yes! I pay AUD$520.00
a week along with my partner and his mother for just a smallish 3-bedroom house that's only somewhat close to the CBD. It's still too far off to walk there, you at least have to catch the bus.
OMG do I love Brisbane <3 If I had a choice in the matter of where I could live, I'd choose Brisbane in a heartbeat. I'm so in love with that city! The reasons for it are endless, and way too long for this forum posting alone. And there are Beardies and Water Dragons roaming the streets and invading your house as
pests! How cool is that?
<<<< I get regular visits from eastern bluetongues, eastern water skinks and eastern water dragons, as delicate skinks and lined skinks , the water skinks are very cheaky and like to visit inside .
Enough of that though, and yes, I currently have a setup just like you describe. The MVB is controlled by its own, more advanced thermostat (a basic model HabiStat by Arcadia)
you have MVB on a thermostat ?
.... and it still works ???
.... I've been told MVBs don't work well with thermostats (even fancy dimming type thermostats).
and the CHE is generally on during the day too, whilst also being on its own dedicated thermostat (albeit a really ****ty one with HUGE variance). The CHE turns on and off automatically depending on when and if the MVB needs a boost of heat or not, since the current residence I'm in right now (in Sydney) gets quite cold. My partner doesn't believe in heating for us Humans.
I'll invest in a heatpad then either just before I make the move back to Victoria or after I just arrive. The ceramic tiles in Iggy's vivarium are almost a centimeter thick though, will the heating pad still be effective through that much material? I don't want to risk burning him though. Does that object which 'closes the loop' adjust the temperature of the heatpad, without requiring a probe to be in direct contact with it? I'm just asking because I have no idea how these things work.
<<< yes but it will take a long time to heat up such thick tiles.
My heatpads are sandwiched between wall tiles (about 4-6 mm thick ??) and work fine.