Massive "growth" on leg turning black; VERY bad infection

Hi everyone. Before I link to these images, let me say a few things. Firstly, they are rather shocking and not for the faint of heart. Secondly, this is NOT my animal. The lizard belongs to a roommate who just moved in with me. I had no idea this was going on until I saw the animal. So please don't comment with angry remarks about how terrible I am... It's not my animal and I'm trying to get it the help it needs.

Some background: the roommate says he thinks the lizard was bitten by a prey item - either a mealworm or cricket, but he is not sure. It happened about a month or two ago (again, he's not sure). The animal has not yet been to a vet because he couldnt afford it. My roommate works very hard but doesnt make all that much. My bf and I are going to help him pay for vet treatment, but we cant do that until next Friday at the earliest, when we get paid. I am posting to see what can be done in the mean time.

The lizard is housed without substrate or with paper, in a large Vision-brand cage. He has a basking bulb on a timer that gives a hot spot in the 90s from about 9am to 7pm. There is currently no UVB. (I have never kept lizards of any kind. Do full-grown adult beardies need UVB? If so, I can give him one of mine.) The lizard is roughly 3 years old. He is fed live worms and crickets, as well as fresh greens/veggies and some fruit. I'm not sure how often, but he and the other beardie my roommate owns (who is housed separately and seems in very good health) are both of a good weight and girth. Since the injury, this one has slowed down on eating somewhat, but does still eat. He has been having some trouble moving to and from the basking spot for obvious reasons. He is also having trouble removing his shed skin. (Should I soak a bearded dragon? Should I try to remove the skin or just leave him be?)

Now then, the photos. Again, I apologize, bc these are a bit grotesque...

http://i.imgur.com/RwZi8iE.jpg

http://imgur.com/cgVhQvD

Hopefully those links work. Should we try to lance the "boil" and release some of the pressure? I have some chlorhexadine, which is an anti-viral, anti-fungal, and anti-bacterial product that is safe to use on reptiles. I was thinking of putting some on the injury to prevent further infection. Does anyone know if this would be wise? Is there anything else we can do here at home to make him more comfortable until he can see a vet?

Thank you very much for any and all (constructive) input.

Hello,

I am so sorry for his huge abscess!
I have not dealt with anything on that massive of a scale. I wouldn't attempt to lance or
drain it because it's probably painful for him. He needs medical attention because they
will need to be able to control bleeding in case it has grown blood vessels. I can't tell if
it has by the picture. That has gone on for awhile though so hopefully he doesn't have a
systemic infection.
For now, you can get some raw, unpasteurized honey or manuka honey to put on the area
right now, to help with any infection on the area. He will likely need an oral antibiotic I
feel, because he has had the abscess for so long. The infection is hopefully encapsulated
& hasn't spread to other parts of his body.
Can you keep him extra warm overnight, around 80 or so, to help his system get boosted?
Is he a leatherback also? If he is a leatherback or a silkback, they do have a little harder
of a time when they shed, so he would likely benefit from a good soak since he is doing
a shed right now. Don't attempt to pull any of it off though, because they have softer skin
that can be damaged more easily than a traditional scaled beardie.

Tracie

OMG .... that poor dragon has be in agony and feeling extremely ill.

This abscess needs to be drained and debrided IMMEDIATELY by an good REPTILE VET - SURGEON and this will need to be under a general anesthetic , a local will not be at all adequate and will make the procedure way too painful and stressful for the dragon to endure.
The vet also needs to send a sample of the pus in the abscess off for pathology to determine exactly what you are dealing and the most effective antibiotic to prescribe help heal the underlying infection, I think this is WAY WAY past the point where raw honey / manuka honey will be much help at all and your dragon will likely go down hill very soon if you delay treatment by a vet-surgeon.

Consider also allowing the vet to take some blood from other dragons you might have access to. This can be kept to be able to give your dragon a transfusion it the abscess is vascularized (which is highly likely based on it's size and how long it has had to been there and growing) , this could mean the difference between your dragon surviving the surgical blood loss.
Hopefully the vet surgeon can save the leg, and the abscess has not invaded / corroded the bones in the leg , and this is the only abscess the dragon has (there could be other abscesses acting as germ factories hidden elsewhere in the dragon's body).

It is highly likely IMO that the dragon has already developed a serious systemic infection (in humans this would be called blood poisoning) so time is definitely of the essence to save your dragon's life.

DO NOT try to lance this at home , do not interfere with it at all.
Keep him warm 24/7 until you can get him in for emergency surgery. The warmth will help boost his immune system.
If it bursts / springs a leak , bathing the infected leg in 1/4 strength Betadiene for 10 - 15mins per day will help.

Good luck, please keep us informed.

Poor thing....it's nice that you're willing to help your friend's beardie and you've been given good advice. Hopefully everything turns out O.K, please urge your room mate to get him to a vet who specializes in reptiles ASAP. And that is a silkback dragon....they have no scales at all, just baby soft skin. As mentioned. raw honey may help just to keep it soft as well as ward off any external infection from it rubbing on the cage decor. Be 100% sure there are no bugs loose anywhere [ hiding under a log , etc ]

Koukai":3fn17rt2 said:

Hi everyone. Before I link to these images, let me say a few things. Firstly, they are rather shocking and not for the faint of heart. Secondly, this is NOT my animal. The lizard belongs to a roommate who just moved in with me. I had no idea this was going on until I saw the animal. So please don't comment with angry remarks about how terrible I am... It's not my animal and I'm trying to get it the help it needs.

Some background: the roommate says he thinks the lizard was bitten by a prey item - either a mealworm or cricket, but he is not sure.
<<<< not likely, more likely bitten by another pet ( my money is on a cat) or the other dragon in a violent encounter
It happened about a month or two ago (again, he's not sure). The animal has not yet been to a vet because he couldnt afford it.
<<<< not good enough.


My roommate works very hard but doesnt make all that much. My bf and I are going to help him pay for vet treatment, but we cant do that until next Friday at the earliest, when we get paid.
<<< I suspect this dragon is likely to go downhill very fast very soon and may not last that long.
You are very kind doing this for his dragon.

I am posting to see what can be done in the mean time.

The lizard is housed without substrate or with paper, in a large Vision-brand cage. He has a basking bulb on a timer that gives a hot spot in the 90s from about 9am to 7pm.
>>>> 10 hours photoperiod is WAY TOO SHORT, needs to be bumped up to AT LEAST 14 hours every day.

There is currently no UVB. (I have never kept lizards of any kind. Do full-grown adult beardies need UVB? If so, I can give him one of mine.)
>>>> extremely high levels of BOTH UVA & UVB are a NON-NEGIABLE requirement for ALL bearded dragons . The dragon needs at least a 26W 10% UVB tube or compact in a reflector hood mounted under the mesh lid of the dragon's viv and set up to provide not less than 180 microW UVB / sq.cm at the basking spot & 100 microW UVB / sq.cm elsewhere.
The lizard is roughly 3 years old. He is fed live worms and crickets, as well as fresh greens/veggies and some fruit.
<<< some live calcium dusted insects daily + salad is needed by an adult bearded dragon, see
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=236074 for how to set up a balanced diet for an adult bearded dragon
for selection of veg and greens : http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutritionframeset.html
to help select feeder insects : viewtopic.php?f=76&t=234999&p=1807834#p1807834
aim for high Ca/P about Ca/P = 2 is idea
aim for highest protein level
aim for lower fat level.
I'm not sure how often, but he and the other beardie my roommate owns (who is housed separately and seems in very good health) are both of a good weight and girth. Since the injury, this one has slowed down on eating somewhat, but does still eat.
<<< that's encouraging , most likely only really eating when REALLY starving as it feels really sick and moving about on the infected leg is agony.

He has been having some trouble moving to and from the basking spot for obvious reasons. He is also having
trouble removing his shed skin. (Should I soak a bearded dragon? Should I try to remove the skin or just leave him be?)
<<<< remove all options for climbing higher than the top of his hide, he is too frail and sick and weak and in too much pain to climb, this means the lights need adjusting (both the basking and UVB globes need to repositioned to give a good 96-100 F at the new lower basking spot and at least 180 microW UVB / sq.cm at the basking spot.
Shedding .... a daily soak in a weak betadiene bath at about 32 degC (use a thermometer to get the water temperature right - DON'T let him drink in this bath, a soak for 10 - 15min with regular top ups to keep the dilute betadiene warmer than 30 degC and at about the same Betadiene strength ( about the colour of iced tea ) will help with his shedding (this is the least of the dragon's problems ATM) and will help the infected leg, esp if it's start's leaking pus.

Now then, the photos. Again, I apologize, bc these are a bit grotesque...

http://i.imgur.com/RwZi8iE.jpg

http://imgur.com/cgVhQvD

Hopefully those links work. Should we try to lance the "boil" and release some of the pressure?
<<<< NO !!!! see my other post.
I have some chlorhexadine, which is an anti-viral, anti-fungal, and anti-bacterial product that is safe to use on reptiles. I was thinking of putting some on the injury to prevent further infection.
<<<< Betadiene or chlorohexadine will help clean up the leg but BE SUPER GENTLE as his leg will be SUPER SORE and SENSITIVE and touching it will cause agony to him.
I suggest F10 Germicidal ointment for this , as way past being treatable by home remedies.
https://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/F10-Germicidal-Barrier-Ointment/productinfo/F10GERMBO/ this stuff is available in the USA .
Does anyone know if this would be wise? Is there anything else we can do here at home to make him more comfortable until he can see a vet?

Thank you very much for any and all (constructive) input.

Click to expand...

List of reptile vets : viewtopic.php?f=45&t=234369&p=1803862&hilit=melissa#p1803862

Wow, that's probably the worst abscess I've seen on any animal or human...seriously, that's very bad, and likely is vascularized, meaning it has it's own blood supply by now and if the dragon isn't already septic he will be soon. The total lack of UVB light is also very alarming, Bearded Dragons need a very strong UVB tube, a long tube, not a compact or coil bulb, for at least 13-14 hours a day, every day, or they will develop a severe calcium deficiency, MBD, and other nutritional deficiencies. They are Desert Reptiles that in the wild get bright, intense, natural sunlight, and if this poor dragon (and his other dragon) have never had a UVB light, they are both malnourished and have weak bone density. You cannot just throw a UVB bulb on him, if it's a compact or coil UVB bulb that is only 13 watts or less, as most are, they are too weak to start with for a dragon, and then any type of mesh lid to the tank or glass/plastic that is clean and obstructing the lights (UVB light is blocked 100% by clear plastic and glass) will just weaken it more. You need a long UVB tube, at least 18" at the shortest, and it must be at least a 10% UVB tube (10.0) or higher, no 5.0 or 2.0 tubes at all, and again, no UVB "bulbs", but has to be a long tube. The Reptisun 10.0 T8, the Zilla Desert 50 T8, and the Arcadia 10% T8 are the only ones acceptable of the T8 type (no All Living Things, ReptileOne, or any other off brands that emit harmful rays), and most experienced Bearded Dragon owners use the much stronger T5 strength UVB tubes, in this country the Reptisun 10.0 T5HO is the most popular UVb light for a Bearded Dragon, at least the 22" one and then a matching fixture, which you can buy both at the cheapest price anywhere (they dont' even sell these in pet shops typically, definitely not at Petco or PetSmart) on Amazon.com...you can buy both a 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube and a 24" T5-rated tube fixture on Amazon.com for around $50 shipped. That's what he needs, mounted within 11" of his basking spot on the Hot Side of the tank, and on for 14 hours every day, and the T5 must be replaced once a year (if you go with the weaker 18" Reptisun 10.0 T8 UVB tube and fixture, or the Zilla Desert 50 T8 UVB tube and fixture, they must be within at least 6" of the basking spot, completely unobstructed by anything, and be replaced once every 6 months)...

As far as that abscess goes, obviously he needs a Reptile Specialist Vet only, no general vets or "exotics" vets, as I'm assuming by looking at it he will need a pretty involved surgery to help him. I'm very grateful that you are going to help him out with the vet, but be aware that an abscess like that has been there for many months (more than 2 if it came from a bug bite, that looks like an abscess that has developed over the last 5-6 months to me, I've seen them at the rescue I volunteer at in neglected reptiles and birds, but never this bad). Any experienced Reptile Vet is going to want to put the dragon completely under using a general, and then will have to very carefully open it up and do a complete debridement and drainage, but because it likely has a blood supply to it by now, it's going to make the procedure a lot more involved. They can't just lance it and drain it because #1) He could very likely bleed to death as soon as they open it up, and #2) If he's not already septic, opening it up if it has a blood supply often can cause sepsis, which will kill him. He needs IV antibiotics, at the least antibiotic injections IM, and then oral antibiotics as well after the surgery. But you need to find a very experienced Reptile Specialist to deal with this, this is a big deal now that he let it go this long...

I'm not directing this at you, I know you're only trying to help and I appreciate this greatly, but maybe you need to talk to your roommate about his financial situation and having 2 Desert Reptiles that he has no idea how to care for, and no money to buy the correct things that they need just to survive...I mean, he has 2 adult dragons, neither have any UVB light at all, improper temperature zones (there should be 3 temperature zones inside a dragon's enclosure, measured by a Digital Probe Thermometer or an Infrared gun), he's feeding them mealworms, which they shouldn't have, and of course most alarming is that he let a little bite or cut get to the point where this poor dragon needs a major surgery now, and I'm telling you that this abscess has been developing for over 2 months, judging by it's size and how invasive it has become to his body it's been growing for at least 5 or 6 months minimum. This is severe animal neglect, you know this, and I'm not saying this to be nasty or mean, or even critical of him, I'm saying it because he is not taking even the bare minimum care of his pets due to financial restraints, and this one in particular has been severely neglected. You obviously care about animals or you wouldn't be willing to help him out, so that's why I'm asking you if you think it's time to have a serious talk with your friend/roommate. I mean, I'm not going into detail on his husbandry issues, but they are severe, but the fact that neither dragon even has a UVB light at all, not even an inadequate one that's too weak like most people mistakenly buy, he has none on either...

Yes, your friend needs some help, but so do his pets, and I'm advocating for them because they can't advocate for themselves. This particular dragon has been severely neglected and not given any much-needed medical care for months and months. What was a simple bug bite or little wound that got infected and could have been treated months ago with a $100-$150 vet visit now requires a pretty invasive surgical procedure and extensive meds, and that's if he survives the procedure and there's no complications with the blood supply, etc. I hope you haven't underestimated what is going to be involved in treating that abscess, it's very, very bad and they may even just suggest euthanizing him because they don't want to deal with it, that's why I stress you need an experienced Reptile Vet, because a general vet or an "exotics" vet isn't going to want to go anywhere near that, but will probably just refer you to a reptile specialist, then charge you for an office visit (trying to save you some money)...where I'm going with this is that maybe your roommate should consider surrendering this dragon to a reputable, certified Reptile Rescue who has the resources to not only get the surgery done by a Certified Reptile Vet, but also can pay for all the follow-up treatment he's going to require.

I have worked at a Bird and Reptile Rescue for years in Central Pennsylvania, and we have networks all over the country and resources that can help this dragon if your roommate decides it's not fair to put this dragon through this anymore. I mean, the part of this I haven't even mentioned is that this dragon is in tremendous pain and has been for months with this, and that's what makes this not only animal neglect, but also animal abuse. I know it's not purposeful and he doesn't "abuse" his dragons, but you know what I mean. I mean, depending on the state that you live in, most animal welfare departments, if contacted about that dragon's condition, when they saw that abscess and got the opinion of any Reptile Vet, would take the dragon away from him and charge him with animal cruelty/neglect charges. That's how bad that is. So that's why I'm just throwing this out to you as another option, as you've so graciously offered to take the dragon to the vet, but it's only Saturday and this can't happen for yet another week, and he may not even live that long if he's at all septic, which I suspect he must be. That's another week of tremendous pain he has to be in, and not even in a correct environment. And I fear that you and your boyfriend, trying to be helpful and generous, have underestimated what taking care of that abscess is going to cost you. That may very well take a very involved surgical procedure and follow-up care, we're talking a lot of money...

If you have any questions about the Reptile Rescue process, or you want the contact information of the closest Certified Reptile Rescue to you, just PM me on here with where you live, and I'll be happy to make some phone calls for you and your roommate...

Hello,

How is your dragon doing today, are you going to be able to get him into a vets sooner, rather
than later?
Please keep us updated on the situation, he cannot feel well at all.


Tracie

Poor baby I'm sorry but in my opinion, money isn't a reason to let it get this bad... many vet offices offer payment plans that make the load lighter. You may want to look into that. This poor dragon has suffered greatly

I'm betting from the lack of responses , once again the unfortunate dragon has died before appropriate help was provided.

Then What a shame and a horrible last month he had

Oh my goodness... I need to go hug Kevin now... that is the saddest thing I've seen on here so far. Poor guy.