Swollen legs? Lethargic?

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wicket15

Member
Hi everyone. It's been a couple years since I had to post here asking about my Wicket. When I got him almost three years ago I was crazy worried about everything and posted here a decent amount, but I've since fallen into a routine with him and things have been fine.

The last two years Wicket went into brumation once fall hit and would sleep until late winter/early spring. I was expecting him to do the same this year, but he hasn't. He has, though, been acting unusual. His appetite has been very light and he lays around a lot. He sleeps normal day and night patterns, but he doesn't spend much time off of his hammock anymore. This started around October so I figured maybe instead of deep sleeping, he's just having a lazy winter. I was concerned, but not overly so.

I'd say over the last week or two, though, his feet and legs look a little swollen. He's been going through a sporadic shed around his whole body, so I thought maybe it's just his skin lifting a little and making them look bigger, but while we were hanging out so I could deep clean his tank, I started getting a little worried. They just look kind of... puffy, I guess?

Like I said, I figured he was just going through a light brumation this year so I've tried not to bother him too much. He hasn't been eating many greens or bugs, so I keep some dusted dry pellets in there if he ever feels like munching. I also keep a water bowl in there and encourage him to drink at least every other day. He hasn't been pooping very often either, probably once every week and a half, though they are usually decent sized. I don't feel like this is normal, but he hasn't been consuming much to poop anyway.

Is this something I should be worried about? I live in a small town and we don't have any exotic or reptile vets that are trustworthy nearby. We do have one I could try, but they're known to be more of the "welp, seems okay but keep an eye on him!" kind of vet that isn't much help.

When I got him out today he was feisty and wanting to crawl everywhere. His legs didn't seem like they bothered him, he still moves around normal and he didn't pull away when I felt at them or his feet. Is there something I should keep an eye out for? I'm kind of at a loss here and don't really even know what I'm trying to ask. I'm just worried. Does this seem normal for a shed/light brumation? He never shed while he was sleeping before and was always running it off pretty quick, so it's never just been skin sitting there, so maybe I'm just exaggerating the puffiness?

TLDR: My dragon is lethargic, he doesn't eat much or poo much, and his legs look swollen. I'm worried.

Ps, my husbandry is all right as, like I said, I was obsessive on this website when I first got him. I know that's often a reason for weird behavior/health issues, but I don't believe that is a factor in this case. Also, I'm sorry for the long as heck post! Thanks in advance to anyone who has thoughts on my guy's situation right now!
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi there, can you post some pics of Wicket's legs ? Sometimes slight swelling can be an early symptom of gout. The recommended thing if gout is suspected is to give dark cherry juice/extract. And if gout is confirmed via needle aspiration to check for crystals in the joint then beardies are often put on Allopurinol, same as humans . Most beardie owners have a vet call it in to a pharmacy for them.

For posting pics follow this info:
https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload them
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
Welcome back to the forums!

Could you please post some photos of him, specifically some close-ups of his swollen extremities, as AHBD already asked for? This is necessary for us to see what you're talking about...

Unfortunately, from the way you are describing how this all started and describing the swelling in his extremities itself, it does sound very much like the start of a Gout flare-up.

Gout is becoming extremely common in Bearded Dragons, and most vets are not familiar with this at all unless they are experienced reptile vets with a lot of Bearded Dragon experience. Because of this, it's very hard to find a vet that will even think of Gout as a cause of the swelling, let alone know how to properly diagnose or treat Gout. Most vets will want to take a plain film x-ray use this to confirm or rule-out Gout. And this doesn't work. While an x-ray that shows Uric Acid crystals in the joint spaces does positively diagnose Gout, the problem is that an x-ray that does not show any Uric Acid crystals in the joint spaces in no way rules-out Gout, as Uric Acid crystals usually do not show up on a plain-film x-ray.

The only way to diagnose or rule-out Gout is by doing a routine blood draw (from the vein in the base of his tail) and running a normal, routine blood panel that includes his Uric Acid level. If he is positive for Gout, his Uric Acid level will be elevated (usually by the time their extremities are actively swelling, their Uric Acid level will be very, very high and there will be no doubt about a diagnosis of Gout). The other reason a routine blood draw and blood panel is necessary is that it will include a Complete Blood Count (CBC), which will also rule-out or confirm any type of infection that may be causing the swelling. However, I'm fairly certain just by the way you describe this problem developing and the swelling coming on that he has Gout.

The good news is that Gout is very treatable by a prescription of Allopurinol, which your vet will write a prescription for in the correct dosage for your dragon, and that you can take to your regular pharmacy, and your normal, human pharmacist will compound the Allopurinol into a liquid formula for him from human-grade tablets (there is no veterinary-grade form of Allopurinol). He may need to be on the Allopurinol daily for the rest of his life, but it's very inexpensive, with a 2 month dose from a human pharmacy costing around $25 at most. (One person here had their vet try to order the already compounded Allopurinol from a Veterinary Medical Supplier, and a 2 month dose cost them over $200!) So you have to be proactive about requesting that your vet call the prescription in to your normal pharmacy and getting his prescription there, if in fact he does have Gout. You also will need to be proactive about requesting that they skip the x-ray first and just immediately do a blood draw from the dorsal tail vein to first check his Uric Acid levels, as this is most likely going to tell you everything you need to know right off the bat.

In the meantime, tart or black cherry juice or extract does help to ease the pain and swelling of Gout, so does Serrapeptase, which can be ordered in capsules online. He'll most likely need a prescription pain med eventually, as Gout does become extremely painful once the Uric Acid level gets to a certain level.

The most important thing you need to do and to worry about though is keeping him very, very well-hydrated and offering him water, or better yet unflavored Pedialyte, several times throughout the day, every single day, either by dripping it on his snout several times every day, or if he'll drink from a bowl multiple times a day then you can do that. But I recommend forcing the fluids with Gout, as most dragons who have serious complications or even death from Gout have this happen due to Kidney damage/failure due to the Uric Acid levels in the blood being too high for the kidneys to handle. So it's extremely important to keep his renal system continuously flushed out all day long, every day. The sooner you get a blood draw and blood panel done and get him on the Allopurinol daily to bring down the Uric Acid levels, the sooner his kidneys will be lessened from the strain on them.
 

wicket15

Member
Original Poster
Thanks for the replies. I don't really have any before pictures to compare to the after ones, but these two are all I have from early Octoberish. I would usually have more but my old phone broke in September and I lost all my photos. Just for an idea of them beforehand.

81390-1863882444.jpg
81390-260269712.jpg

He had an appetite today, so here are a few photos while he was standing eating and then his leg while he was basking afterward. I can't tell if they look swollen or if it's just my imagination, but I think they do. I feel like these photos aren't really showing it properly, which is frustrating.

81390-6469338480.jpg
81390-6155480351.jpg
81390-9710408160.jpg

What do you guys think? Do they look puffy or swollen to you? Sorry they aren't great, if you need a different angle or lighting I can do that too. My family thinks I'm crazy and just seeing things. If I use the cherry extract and the puffiness seems to go down, would that be a pointer towards gout?
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

That is hard to tell, they may look a bit swollen. However, shedding always make the areas
look a little puffy. You could wait until he is done shedding to take more pictures & then
compare to best determine if he does have swelling. He looks like a leatherback?
If you start the cherry juice & the puffiness goes down some then it could be gout, or a pre-gout
syndrome just meaning the kidneys may be having some trouble. It depends on the severity &
the cause of gout as to whether or not they would need allopurinol, for life. If it's caused by
husbandry or nutritional issues, usually it can self correct with a short regime of allopurinol.
I did notice, your tube bulb is mounted on the back wall? Can you mount that directly overhead
so that the UVB points downward? When it's mounted on the back wall, the UVB goes out & away
from your dragon so he doesn't get a whole lot out of it. Which one do you use?
How often do you use calcium & do you supplement multivitamins also?

Tracie
 
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