Baby beardie SEIZURE?!

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Baby beardie SEIZURE?!

Postby cydneejasmine » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:39 pm

Please help! I came home from work today and my baby seemed okay, about an hour later after i put her in her tank she was breathing very heavily, gaping every once in a while. Then all of a sudden her face started twitching, especially her eyes, looked like she was having a seizure it was the scariest thing I’ve ever seen, her eye rolled back a couple of times. I will post a screenshot from the video i took! Does anyone have an idea of what is going on?? [Click image to enlarge]
She also has a hard lump on the left bottom of her mouth that I’ve been worried about, if that might help with any ideas. [Click image to enlarge]
[Click image to enlarge]
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Re: Baby beardie SEIZURE?!

Postby Drache613 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:12 am

Hello,

So sorry your baby had a seizure. He is pretty young so hopefully it isn't calcium related, but,
that is pretty common.
Can you review your tank setup with us, such as the type/brand of UVB lighting, the supplements
that you give & the foods you offer. Did you give too large of prey possibly for him?

Tracie
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Re: Baby beardie SEIZURE?!

Postby EllenD » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:14 pm

Wow that's scary, especially with such a young, small baby...I'm so sorry. Hopefully it's not a seizure disorder, but rather a nutritional deficiency, as Tracie has already mentioned. It's quite common for people to not be using an adequate UVB light for bearded dragons, as they are desert reptiles that require 13-14 hours day of strong, adequate UVB light, and most all compact (regular lightbulb shaped) and coil (spiral or twisty regular lightbulbs) are not even close to appropriate for bearded dragons, they need long UVB tubes that are much stronger and have long, tube fixtures with metal reflectors behind where the UVB tubes sit to reflect adequate UVB light throughout the tank. Also, if you have a mesh lid on top of his enclosure/tank, the mesh blocks around 40% of the UVB light emitted by their lights. So if you're using either a compact or coil UVB bulb or even a weak T8 UVB long tube instead of a much stronger T5 UVB tube, the mesh will essentially ensure that he is basically getting no UVB light at all. Also, any of the compact or coil UVB bulbs and the long T8 strength UVB tubes must not only be unobstructed by a mesh lid, but they also must be within 6" of your dragon's Basking Spot/Platform that is in the Hot Side of his tank in order for enough of the weak UVB light to reach him. Any further away and the UVB light will not reach him.

So essentially, all bearded dragons need and should have a long UVB tube, at least 18" or 24" long if not a 36" or 48" depending on how large an enclosure they are in, and it should be a T5 strength UVB tube, not a much weaker UVB tube. The T5 UVB tubes only need to be within 11" of his main Basking Spot/Platform on the Hot Side of his enclosure/tank, and the T5 UVB tubes only need to be replaced once ever 12 months, as opposed to the T8 UVB tubes and the compact or coil UVb bulbs, which must be replaced once every 6 months, as that's the age when they stop emitting any UVB light at all, even though the tubes/bulbs will not be burnt out at 6 months or 12 months and will still light up, they will not be emitting any UVB light at all.

Also, if you happen to be using a Coil UVB bulb, not only are they too weak for a bearded dragon, but they all tend to cause serious eye issues/damage and can also cause neurological issues/damage, regardless of the brand or model. So if you happen to have a Coil UVB bulb, that alone could cause seizures in addition to being far too weak to provide a bearded dragon with appropriate UVB light.

As Tracie also mentioned, if he happened to eat an insect that was larger/wider than the space between his eyes, this can cause a number of serious health issues, one of them being seizures. You always have to make sure that any live insects you're feeding him are always smaller than the space between his eyes, so that he will not suffer from a seizure, choking, or a bowel impaction.
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Re: Baby beardie SEIZURE?!

Postby Drache613 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:23 am

Hello,

Please let us know how he is doing. I hope he doesn't have anymore seizures.

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Re: Baby beardie SEIZURE?!

Postby cydneejasmine » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:08 am

Hi everyone! Sorry for the late response. I got her into a vet asap the next morning. Unfortunately the vet didn’t seem to know much about anything.... he didn’t even rule in the fact that it could be MBD until i had mentioned something.. so for now he took a fecal sample that I’m still waiting to hear back on, as well as he gave me some calcium glubionate syrup that i have to give her through a syringe. She hasn’t had any of those scary seizure effects since that night, but she has still been doing the gaping and gagging every once in a while. She’s also not very interested in her food. She might eat a meal worm but she won’t touch her Dubia roaches. I woke up this morning as well and she was hiding/sleeping in her hide, which is pretty unusual for her.
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Re: Baby beardie SEIZURE?!

Postby Drache613 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:31 pm

Hello,

I'm glad you got her to a vet, but too bad he wasn't real knowledgeable on reptiles. It's very
difficult to find a good vet!
What type of UVB light are you using for her?
The liquid calcium glubionate will help her out. Did he dose it for her weight, too?
Be sure the insects are not too large for her just so she doesn't become impacted.
What are the temperatures in the tank & are you using a digital probe or temp gun to
measure them with?
Let us know how she is doing.

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Re: Baby beardie SEIZURE?!

Postby EllenD » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:21 am

Well that sucks, and unfortunately it's very, very common...I still believe this has to do with her lighting and temps, remember that giving her that Calcium Syrup will do absolutely no good at all unless she has adequate UVB lighting to allow her to absorb and process it, otherwise she is just going to excrete it all.

Please answer the questions about her lighting and temps, and her diet, so that we can get you on the right tract, it's extremely important that you get her the correct lighting and temps this early on in her life, before any permanent damage is done that cannot be reversed due to the MBD. Trust me, I adopted a rescue dragon at 8 months old who had an 18" Zilla T8 UVB tube from a month old onward that was sitting on top of a mesh lid and was 12" away from his basking spot, and was not replaced at 6 months old, so he basically got no UVB or UVA light at all up until 8 months old, and he also had a red basking bulb that was only 50 watts in a 40 gallon breeder tank, so his basking spot temperature was only in the 85 degree range for the first 8 months, as opposed to the 105-110 degrees it should have been. He was also fed nothing but mealworms as far as live insects, and that combined with the temps that were drastically low and no UVB light caused him to have a massive bowel impaction that he had for 3 months before I got him, he was passing little tiny bowel movements past the impaction of mealworm shells for the last 3 months that his first family had him, and he also developed severe MBD from the lack of UVB light and the improper diet. So when I got him both his back legs were completely paralyzed and he drug them both everywhere, he flipped over onto his back when he walked on flat ground, he twitched and shook and had mini seizures constantly, etc. Now he's a year and 3 months old so I've had him under a proper 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube mounted under the mesh lid and within 11" of his main Basking Spot, he has been fed ample amounts of Phoenix Worms/BSFL every single day along with medium dubia roaches and very occasional micro-size superworms, and he gets appropriate, healthy greens every single day. He's been to my Certified Reptile Vet several times for regular x-rays to check his bone density growth (it was non-existent when I first got him) and regular blood work to check all his levels, and now after only 7-8 months he can use both his back legs, he no longer flips over onto his back, and the only twitching he has is occasionally in his front legs. Unfortunately he will be permanently unable to walk without stumbling, he will never be able to climb anything, his front legs are permanently folded together under his neck/chest most of the time, and he has permanent eye and neurological damage from the red coil basking bulb, so he has no depth perception and cannot usually catch insects on his own, even the Phoenix Worms (they look like big wax worms) that don't even move, he can't judge their distance from him and he just misses them over and over again when he's trying to eat them, until he finally gives up and moves on to a different one or I help him. It's sad, but he has a good life now and in general he's healthy, and he's spoiled.

I just try my best to prevent any young babies from ending up this way...
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