Stress Marks or Normal?

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Stress Marks or Normal?

Postby spgargano » Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:19 pm

[Click image to enlarge]
[Click image to enlarge]
Do these look like stress marks or just natural. I feel like he's always had these and not sure if its a concern. He is a lot better compared to how he was a few weeks ago but now i have proper lighting and temperatures and he's been back up to speed. Should i be concerned about these or are they natural? He always seems happy and hangs out with me and I don't know why he would be stressed because i keep his temps in basking area between 105-115 and currently waiting on a new UVB tube fixture i ordered because I was using spiral before but for now I have a reptisun 10 non spiral bulb in a mirror fixture that has been better than the last but also just temporary. He is always alert in the middle of the day but seems to calm down once it gets later in the afternoon. I attached pics.[Click image to enlarge]
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Re: Stress Marks or Normal?

Postby spgargano » Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:23 pm

Here is another pic of him now before bed and i just think hes getting tired but he does do that with his eyes sometimes later in the day.[Click image to enlarge]
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Re: Stress Marks or Normal?

Postby spgargano » Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:34 pm

And when he was sick he was doing this and couldn't move it back and now he does it occasionally when he is basking, I dont know if i should be concerned or not. [Click image to enlarge]
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Re: Stress Marks or Normal?

Postby spgargano » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:33 pm

He's 4-5 months and when i went to the vet he told me to offer greens all the time and feed live food once every other day with calcium with d3 powder twice a week and multivite powder once a week. It was a reptile vet so i have been listening to him but I see on forums that i should feed him every day. Im confused and just want him to be happy and healthy and this is beyond stressing me out. Please help.
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Re: Stress Marks or Normal?

Postby VenusAndSaturn » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:43 pm

I'd find a new vet if he told you to feed your beardie live food every other day along with how your dusting the food. You want to feed him twice a day with as many insects as he wants in 10-15 minutes and offer greens everyday and as he gets to 12 months only offer live food once a day and then eventually only offer live food at least two to three times a week. As for the calcium powder you need to get one without d3 as well so he doesnt overdose. Calcium 5 times a week with multivitamin twice a week. He doesnt look stressed out but he definitely needs a better dusting/feeding schedule and possibly a new more experienced vet.
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Re: Stress Marks or Normal?

Postby spgargano » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:29 am

Thanks for the info, I definitely will change the feeding schedule if that could be causing the problem, he's a really well know vet in Charlotte and he said that he recommends feeding veggies daily and live food once every other day is more similar to how they survive in the wild but I don't want to risk it. I have also noticed it seems that he is weak. He seems happy and alert but I watch him try to climb to his basking spot and it looks as if he tries really hard to get up there, but then just stands there leaning on the bottom after trying to pull himself up. Has this ever happend to anyone before?
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Re: Stress Marks or Normal?

Postby VenusAndSaturn » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:10 am

Feeding veggies daily is good, especially for adult beardies along with feeding live food once every other day for adults or three times a week. However with babies that wouldn't be best and would leave them being underfed probably. The veggies would be fine for feeding every day but at that age they need lots of protein and then as they get to adult size if they have too much protein/insects i believe it causes gout. I could be wrong but i remember reading something like that a while ago.
As for him being a bit weak it could be the uvb your using if its not the tube light.
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Re: Stress Marks or Normal?

Postby spgargano » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:45 pm

[Click image to enlarge]
[Click image to enlarge]
VenusAndSaturn wrote:Feeding veggies daily is good, especially for adult beardies along with feeding live food once every other day for adults or three times a week. However with babies that wouldn't be best and would leave them being underfed probably. The veggies would be fine for feeding every day but at that age they need lots of protein and then as they get to adult size if they have too much protein/insects i believe it causes gout. I could be wrong but i remember reading something like that a while ago.
As for him being a bit weak it could be the uvb your using if its not the tube light.


Thanks for the info, I just got in the reptisun UVB tube light on him today and the bulb as well for extra uvb. I gave him crickets with calcium and D3 today as well the day before. I also got liquid calcium that i put on greens that he probably got around 2 drops of because he didn't like it and i had to sneak it in on different vegetables with varied small amounts lol. But does this setup look good the temps where his body is on the basking spot is around 105 and the tip is 120 and i know it must be hot enough because iv'e seen him gaping a couple times. I have only been fed him around 40 crickets yesterday(which is a lot but i felt bad because I heard once every other day isn't enough) and 30 crickets today even though he would still eat more because I am worried that the time i went to the vet that his symptoms came from impaction that i cleared the night before by rubbing his stomach for hours until he finally pooped. This morning also when he went to the bathroom it was huge and he had a huge white urate as well that wasn't hard. If anyone can connect anything I am giving here i would extremely appreciate it. Heres a pic of his setup and I had to put him up there because he had too much trouble trying to get up, although he seems walks around fine on flat ground, but i also just watched his go down and he pretty muchh just did more or a slide with style. Also here is the picture of the urate and the second one is just the other part that broke off lol.[Click image to enlarge]
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Re: Stress Marks or Normal?

Postby EllenD » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:45 pm

Hi, welcome to the forums...you definitely need to not EVER go back to that vet, there is no way he is a reptile specialist vet if he told you to feed a baby/juvenile dragon live food every other day. That's the total opposite of what you should have been doing, and if he's weak, lethargic, and more importantly he has a bit of MBD from the coil UVB bulb and then the compact UVB bulb, maybe a bit stunted but not badly. Hopefully you can get him on a correct live insect schedule, dusting schedule, and get his UVB tube mounted correctly for him so that he starts getting adequate UVB light.

First off, there should never be a temperature inside his tank anywhere over 110 degrees!!! 115-120 degrees is in the lethal range if he's in it for any length of time, so please move your basking lamp up and away, or possibly even go to a lower wattage bright white basking bulb, and make sure you are using either a Digital Probe Thermometer or a Temperature Gun so that you can actually measure the Basking Spot Surface Temp, you cannot with any type of stick-on thermometer. Basking Spot Surface Temp between 105-110 absolute max (at a year old they tend to like it a bit lower, between 100-105), Hot Side Ambient (air) Temp between 88-93 max, and Cool Side Ambient (air) between 75-80 max.

What Reptisun 10.0 UVB tube did you buy, I can't really see the length, either 18" or a 24" most likely, but is it the T8 or the T5HO strength? If it is the 10.0 T8 strength then it absolutely must be mounted inside his tank and under the mesh lid, as it blocks 40% of the UVB light, and the T8 is not strong enough to still deliver adequate UVB light to him. The T8 also must be at least within 6" at a max distance away from his baking spot, and it must be replaced once every 6 months, as that is the age that they stop emitting any UVB light at all, even though the tube will not be burnt out and will still light up. If you got the 10.0 T5HO strength UVB tube then you can sit it on top of the mesh lid, but it still must be within at least 11" of the basking spot, and it must be replaced once every 10 months to 12 months max. I have been using the 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVb tubes for years and I still mount them on the inside of the tank at a distance around 9-10" away from their main Basking Spot, and I replace them once every 10 months just to be safe. Also, make sure that both his new UVB tube and his bright white basking light are on every single day for at least 13-14 hours per day, and that you turn ALL lights off at night. It needs to be pitch black in his tank and the temp needs to drop considerably, just like it does in the desert. As long as his tank temp is not below around 65 degrees at night, he needs no nighttime heat source at all (your house would have to be at 60 degrees or below for you to need a nighttime heat source for him, which would be freezing, so most people need no nighttime heat source).

You need to find a place to order your live insects online in bulk, because it is not at all cost effective to buy them at a pet shop, he should be eating a ton of live insects every single day. He needs at least 2 live feeding sessions every single day but 3 is ideal, up until he's 8 months old, then at 8 months you go to 2 live feeding sessions a day. Each session needs to last between 10-15 minutes, where he is allowed to eat as many live insects as he wants to, dropping in 2-3 at a time and only stopping when he walks away to go bask. Crickets, dubia roaches, Phoenix Worms/BSFL, or Silkworms are your acceptable live staple feeders for a dragon, with occasional treat live insects being wax worms, butter worms, or hornworms, maybe 3-4 a week. No mealworms. He should be offered a fresh greens salad every day, but not until after his first live feeding session, and if he eats it it's only a bonus, and should not be considered a part of his daily diet at all until he's a year old.

Dragons continue to grow until they are 2 years old, but they do 80% or more of their growth and development during year one, and they eat basically no vegetation in the wild up until they are over a year old. This is why not many babies or juveniles even touch greens or veggies until over a year old, because they know they don't need it and they don't want it, they need huge amounts of live insects. That's why I suggest you order online in bulk, from a place like www.dubiaroaches.com (they have all live feeders, not just dubia roaches, and they are the cheapest I've seen). For example, my 6 month old male eats large Phoenix Worms/BSFL as his live staple insect, and he eats between 20-30 in the morning, 20-30 in the mid afternoon, and 15-20 in the early evening every single day, 7 days a week. So I buy them buy the 1,000 (I have 3 dragons, one adult, one just turning a year, and the 6 month old). We go through a lot of bugs, but one 4-5 month old beardie should be eating at least around 40 live insects every single day, that are smaller than the space between his eyes. As he grows you can feed him larger sized bugs and then obviously he'll eat less...

I'm sure he's got calcium deficiency going on due to mostly the lack of UVB light and then due to the poor diet and dusting schedule, so I'd actually be dusting all of his live insects from one of the 2 or 3 daily feeding sessions in calcium 7 days a week for a while, until he's around 8 months old, then go down to all the insects from one of the 2 or 3 daily feeding sessions 5 times a week. He needs the extra calcium under adequate UVb light to up his bone density and to try to reverse any results of the MBD. The thing he's doing with his leg is most likely due to the MBD, it may not be (they do weird movements and positions sometimes) but based on his history of no adequate UVB light and poor diet/dusting you need to be on the safe side for now. Dust all the insects from 1 or the 2 or 3 live feeding sessions daily in a multivitamin powder 3 times a week.
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Re: Stress Marks or Normal?

Postby spgargano » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:28 pm

EllenD wrote:Hi, welcome to the forums...you definitely need to not EVER go back to that vet, there is no way he is a reptile specialist vet if he told you to feed a baby/juvenile dragon live food every other day. That's the total opposite of what you should have been doing, and if he's weak, lethargic, and more importantly he has a bit of MBD from the coil UVB bulb and then the compact UVB bulb, maybe a bit stunted but not badly. Hopefully you can get him on a correct live insect schedule, dusting schedule, and get his UVB tube mounted correctly for him so that he starts getting adequate UVB light.

First off, there should never be a temperature inside his tank anywhere over 110 degrees!!! 115-120 degrees is in the lethal range if he's in it for any length of time, so please move your basking lamp up and away, or possibly even go to a lower wattage bright white basking bulb, and make sure you are using either a Digital Probe Thermometer or a Temperature Gun so that you can actually measure the Basking Spot Surface Temp, you cannot with any type of stick-on thermometer. Basking Spot Surface Temp between 105-110 absolute max (at a year old they tend to like it a bit lower, between 100-105), Hot Side Ambient (air) Temp between 88-93 max, and Cool Side Ambient (air) between 75-80 max.

What Reptisun 10.0 UVB tube did you buy, I can't really see the length, either 18" or a 24" most likely, but is it the T8 or the T5HO strength? If it is the 10.0 T8 strength then it absolutely must be mounted inside his tank and under the mesh lid, as it blocks 40% of the UVB light, and the T8 is not strong enough to still deliver adequate UVB light to him. The T8 also must be at least within 6" at a max distance away from his baking spot, and it must be replaced once every 6 months, as that is the age that they stop emitting any UVB light at all, even though the tube will not be burnt out and will still light up. If you got the 10.0 T5HO strength UVB tube then you can sit it on top of the mesh lid, but it still must be within at least 11" of the basking spot, and it must be replaced once every 10 months to 12 months max. I have been using the 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVb tubes for years and I still mount them on the inside of the tank at a distance around 9-10" away from their main Basking Spot, and I replace them once every 10 months just to be safe. Also, make sure that both his new UVB tube and his bright white basking light are on every single day for at least 13-14 hours per day, and that you turn ALL lights off at night. It needs to be pitch black in his tank and the temp needs to drop considerably, just like it does in the desert. As long as his tank temp is not below around 65 degrees at night, he needs no nighttime heat source at all (your house would have to be at 60 degrees or below for you to need a nighttime heat source for him, which would be freezing, so most people need no nighttime heat source).

You need to find a place to order your live insects online in bulk, because it is not at all cost effective to buy them at a pet shop, he should be eating a ton of live insects every single day. He needs at least 2 live feeding sessions every single day but 3 is ideal, up until he's 8 months old, then at 8 months you go to 2 live feeding sessions a day. Each session needs to last between 10-15 minutes, where he is allowed to eat as many live insects as he wants to, dropping in 2-3 at a time and only stopping when he walks away to go bask. Crickets, dubia roaches, Phoenix Worms/BSFL, or Silkworms are your acceptable live staple feeders for a dragon, with occasional treat live insects being wax worms, butter worms, or hornworms, maybe 3-4 a week. No mealworms. He should be offered a fresh greens salad every day, but not until after his first live feeding session, and if he eats it it's only a bonus, and should not be considered a part of his daily diet at all until he's a year old.

Dragons continue to grow until they are 2 years old, but they do 80% or more of their growth and development during year one, and they eat basically no vegetation in the wild up until they are over a year old. This is why not many babies or juveniles even touch greens or veggies until over a year old, because they know they don't need it and they don't want it, they need huge amounts of live insects. That's why I suggest you order online in bulk, from a place like http://www.dubiaroaches.com (they have all live feeders, not just dubia roaches, and they are the cheapest I've seen). For example, my 6 month old male eats large Phoenix Worms/BSFL as his live staple insect, and he eats between 20-30 in the morning, 20-30 in the mid afternoon, and 15-20 in the early evening every single day, 7 days a week. So I buy them buy the 1,000 (I have 3 dragons, one adult, one just turning a year, and the 6 month old). We go through a lot of bugs, but one 4-5 month old beardie should be eating at least around 40 live insects every single day, that are smaller than the space between his eyes. As he grows you can feed him larger sized bugs and then obviously he'll eat less...

I'm sure he's got calcium deficiency going on due to mostly the lack of UVB light and then due to the poor diet and dusting schedule, so I'd actually be dusting all of his live insects from one of the 2 or 3 daily feeding sessions in calcium 7 days a week for a while, until he's around 8 months old, then go down to all the insects from one of the 2 or 3 daily feeding sessions 5 times a week. He needs the extra calcium under adequate UVb light to up his bone density and to try to reverse any results of the MBD. The thing he's doing with his leg is most likely due to the MBD, it may not be (they do weird movements and positions sometimes) but based on his history of no adequate UVB light and poor diet/dusting you need to be on the safe side for now. Dust all the insects from 1 or the 2 or 3 live feeding sessions daily in a multivitamin powder 3 times a week.


Thanks so much for the help! Sorry i have been beyond busy so havent been able to get back but I found out when i went to the new vet that he has MBD but i caught it early and that it was smart not to listen to the last vet. Calvin is on calcium twice dily and i have his feeding and tank setup perfectly and he seems to be getting a lot better. Thanks again for all the help!
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