BABY BEARDIE LETHARGIC, NOT EATING REGULARLY

I have a baby beardie who hasn’t been eating regularly and is very lethargic. He has been taken to the vet and was being treated for possible parasites. He was also given a liquid calcium supplement. He was treated for 14 days, with little to no change. I have been giving him some vitamins and daily warm soaking sessions. This morning he ate only 2 small crickets and has been sleeping ever since. Had planned to take him back to the vet today, but the vet is stuck in surgery. I’m gonna try again tomorrow. He is under 75w bright basking bulb and 10.0 UVB bulb. Help please!

Hi there, can you post pics of the dragon [ full body ] as well as the set up showing your bulb placement ? How are you measuring the temps and where did you get the baby ? What parasites did he have + what's the name of the meds . ? When the vet says " possible parasites", that's red flag. They have to know absolutely if the dragon actually has them and exactly what kind they are. Two weeks of meds can wipe a baby out. Here's how to post pics :
https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload

Currently he is in a “sick” tank, 5 gallon. With the temperature at 85 degrees during the day, 75-80 at night. He was in a 10 gallon, but we couldn’t keep the temperature up enough. The room is kept at 69-70. The bulbs are ZooMed bulbs, 75w bright basking bulb and 10.0 UVB bulb. The light kit is also ZooMed.

He is a Petsmart baby. We couldn’t do a fecal sample test on him because there was no poop present at the time. I’m not sure how to actually post pictures here. I uploaded them.

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Poor little bugger, did you name him yet ? I see you're really trying to do your best, but we'll clear a few things up. Your temps. are not high enough in the basking zone, and really the dial thermometer does not give you an accurate reading anyway. The baby should be in a bigger tank so he has a heat gradient....105 on one end and a cool zone of 80. A bigger tank [ at least back to the ten ] and a higher watt bulb .

Did he take those meds. for 2 weeks ? The SMZ TMP is a sulfa drug and VERY harsh on the liver + kidneys. It should never ever be given on a " just in case " basis and is very easy to overdose a baby. His lethargy may have more to do with his lighting + conditions than any parasites. I wouldn't go back to the vet, esp. if they want to use more drugs. Coming from a store you never know what condition the baby is in to begin with if you aren't real familiar with healthy beardies look like. So some stores have decent babies, others have sickly ones.

You can try some soy yogurt [ fruit flavored ] from Walmart , i coats the stomach and can help boost the appetite. Put some in a syringe with a bit of water + drip it on his snout several times a day. You can also try feeding him very small crickets [ no longer than the space between his eyes ] by smashing one until the guts come out and rubbing it lightly on his snout. Give that a try. When was the last time he poo'd ?

No, I haven’t named him yet. He hasn’t had a poop yet today. But he did eat 2 small crickets this morning! He won’t touch the pellets or fruits/veggies. I was gonna try some stage one organic baby food. I’m going to switch him out into the 10 gallon tomorrow and change his basking bulb so he is warmer. I’ll let you know how it goes! Thank you so much for the advice!

klb2sweet":1745pife said:

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  Issue 1
  UV is a compact ....
  
  Issue 2
  UV compact is mounted vertical configuration --> very small area illuminated by it cf horizontal configuration in a Nano Hood.
  
  Issue 3
  UV compact is mounted ontop a fine mesh lid which is blocking 40% of the UV.
  
  Issue 4
  UV compact is too far from the dragon even when at it's basking spot.
  
  See this : viewtopic.php?f=34&t=235611
  try to get about 180-200 microW UVB / sq.cm at the basking spot and about 80 microW UVB / sq.cm elsewhere.
  
  Lethargy & lack of apetite likely mainly due to the UV setup (Insufficient UVA).
  
  
  
  Viv is too small , it's not got a large enough footprint
  
  
  
  The dial type analog thermometer is worthless, you have no idea what the actual temperature in the viv is , could be a many degrees hotter or cooler than indicated , ditch it, need at least one of these :
  http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4x-LCD-Digital-Temperature-Thermometer-Fridge-Freezer-Aquarium-Fish-Tank-Reptile-/152552282270?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275
  
  
  
  

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I concur regarding the meds prescribed without actually doing any tests.... JIC ?!?! .... I'd sack that vet and stop the meds ( set them aside incase the new vet says they are the right ones AFTER TESTS ).

Ok I’ve changed everything. 100w basking bulb, horizontal UVB bulb, in the 10 gallon tank, he has his basking stone and I put in a hammock. He’s got his pool. Soaked him this morning and finally got a poop sample. He hasn’t eaten today. Started him on some multi-vitamins. Added a digital thermometer. How soon will I see a difference if it’s the lighting that’s causing the lethargic behavior?

I'm just going to reiterate what has already been said, he has no appetite and is lethargic because:

#1.) Your UVB bulb is totally inadequate for a bearded dragon, it's only a 13 watt bulb. While you do want a Reptisun 10.0 UVB light, it absolutely must be at least an 18" 10.0 tube UVB light in a matching length tube fixture that has a reflector behind it. It also MUST be mounted under that mesh lid, as it is blocking up to 50% of the already way too weak UVB light for a beardie. It also must be withing 6" of his basking spot if it is an 18" Reptisun 10.0 T8 UVB tube, which is the weaker strength tube, and the 10.0 T8 UVB tube must be replaced like clockwork every 6 months. If you order on Amazon.com, the 16" or 22" Reptisun 10.0 (NEVER USE A 5.0 OR 2.0) T5 High-Output UVB tube is a much better UVB tube for a bearded dragon, and you can actually get a package deal on Amazon for a 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB Tube and the matching length fixture that is rated for a T5HO tube and has a reflector built in. The T5HO can sit on top of the mesh as it is strong enough to penetrate the mesh, but still must be within at least 11" of his basking spot. The 10.0 T5HO UVB tube must be replaced like clockwork once a year. Just an FYI, UVB tubes stop emitting any UVB light at all at these ages, even though the tubes are not burnt out and still light up. ALSO, HIS BRIGHT WHITE BASKING LIGHT AND UVB TUBE MUST BOTH BE ON FOR AT LEAST 14 HOURS EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR A BEARDED DRAGON.

Buying him a proper 10.0 UVB tube is not optional, obviously, because without it he will not have any appetite, he will not be able to manufacture any vitamin D3 on his own, will not absorb and calcium he is eating, and he will be stunted in growth and develop MBD. So please get him an appropriate UVB tube immediately.

#2) His temperature zones are FAR TOO LOW and this will also cause extreme lethargy and lack of appetite, and will also not allow him to process his food. You cannot use that stick-on thermometer, as already mentioned they are off by up to 20 degrees if tested, and in addition you have absolutely no way to measure his Basking Spot Temperature with one. You need to spend $10 at Petco or PetSmart on a digital thermometer with a probe on a wire. These are accurate, and you can set the probe right on his basking spot to get the surface temperature. This all being said, you cannot keep him in a 5 gallon tank, nor a 10 gallon tank, as bearded dragons absolutely must have a temperature gradient going across their tanks, and at a minimum you need a 20 gallon long tank to be able to get any kind of temperature gradient. And a 20 gallon long tank will only be large enough for him until he's about 4-5 months old, after that a minimum size is a 40 gallon breeder tank, and for an adult of 2 years and older this is also too small. Most people start their babies in a 40 gallon breeder tank and then go to a custom tank for adults, a minimum of 4'x2'x2'. For now though, you need at least a 20 gallon long, but this is pointless because in a couple of months it will be too small, so you should just go and buy a 40 gallon breeder tank now, check Craigslist, they are usually all over the place.

To show you how far your temperatures are off (and they are actually off by more than this as your thermometer is no doubt off by between 10-20 degrees), his Main Basking Spot on the Hot Side of the tank should be between 105-110 degrees for a baby/juvenile, and around a year old they tend to like it a bit lower, between 100-105 degrees. This is not optional. The only way to measure this is to buy the digital probe thermometer, let the probe sit on the main basking spot for at least 20-30 minutes, then read the temperature. His Hot Side Ambient temperature should be between 88-93 degrees, and you can just put the probe on the floor of the Hot Side of the tank, or attach the suction cup they have to the side of the tank, and again you must let it sit for 20-30 minutes before reading the temperature. The Cool Side Ambient needs to be between 75-80 degrees maximum, as he must always have a Cool Side that is considerably cooler than the Hot Side Ambient to go to. So you can see why the small tanks will not work for him at all. It's impossible to get his temperatures correct in anything smaller than a 40 gallon breeder tank for a bearded dragon, and they are desert reptiles so obviously this is a big deal, just as big as having an adequate, long 10.0 UVB tube that is mounted correctly. Without making these changes he will not have any appetite and will be lethargic.

Also, no more medication, and please do not go back to that vet. That was a horrible medication to give a little baby bearded dragon for parasites that were not tested for, and not only that, that medication is only appropriate for 2 strains of coccidia that are rare. It's a harsh medication that only compounded his issues. The vet should have asked you about what UVB light you were using and what your temperatures were, that would have told him what the problem was.

I’m going to get a bigger tank ASAP. I have the bulbs you all have recommended. The 100w basking and the 10.0 UVB bulbs. Got the digital thermometer and his basking spot is about 109.7 and his cool side is about 80. He spent some time on the bottom today in the basking area. I gave him a warm soak this morning. He didn’t eat today. I’m going to try some yogurt tomorrow and some of the 1st stage baby food. I got a fecal sample earlier today I’m going to go have tested! I’ll let you all know the outcome of that as soon as I know!

klb2sweet":q66xyt5c said:

I’m going to get a bigger tank ASAP. I have the bulbs you all have recommended. The 100w basking and the 10.0 UVB bulbs. Got the digital thermometer and his basking spot is about 109.7 and his cool side is about 80. He spent some time on the bottom today in the basking area. I gave him a warm soak this morning. He didn’t eat today. I’m going to try some yogurt tomorrow and some of the 1st stage baby food. I got a fecal sample earlier today I’m going to go have tested! I’ll let you all know the outcome of that as soon as I know!

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easily and very cheaply done if you convert an 100L to 150L plastic tote / tub as shown here : viewtopic.php?f=34&t=233480

What UVB did you buy? Is it a 10.0 long tube, like an 18"? The reason I'm asking what type it is is that if it's a T8 strength tube, like an 18" Reptisun 10.0 T8 UVB tube, it cannot sit on top of that mesh lid, it is not strong enough to penetrate proper UVB light to your beardie. So you must mount it UNDER the mesh lid, either by using some hooks, like 3M Command Hooks, or by poking holes in the mesh and then using long, plastic zip ties to strap the long tube fixture to the underside of the mesh lid...also, hopefully you did buy a long tube UVB and fixture, please be sure to check the fixture to make sure it does not have any clear, plastic safety cover on it that covers the UVB tube. Some of them have that and it blocks 100% of the UVB light, as does glass. So if the long tube fixture you bought does have one of those clear, plastic covers over the UVB tube you must remove it completely. Once you get the UVB fixture and tube mounted under the mesh lid, you must make sure that his basking platform/branch/whatever is within at least 6" if it's a 10.0 T8 UVB tube, any further away and a T8 UVB tube is too weak to emit adequate UVB light to your beardie.

If you got a proper long tube, 10.0 UVB light and fixture, and you have it mounted unobstructed under the mesh lid and within the correct distance of your beardie on his basking spot, and your temperatures are within the correct ranges (be careful in that 10 gallon tank that his basking spot surface temperature does not go above 110 degrees, for babies it can be between 105-110, so you may want to raise only the basking light up an inch or so (do not move the UVB tube away or the basking spot away, as then he won't get correct UVB light, only raise and lower the basking light once you get the UVB set up correctly). Once the temperature inside the tank goes above 110 degrees it can cause heat stroke, and if it gets above 115 degrees it's in the lethal range. It's just a bit scary in that small a tank because you have so little control over the temperature gradient.

If you lights and temps are all good, you should see his energy level perk up pretty quickly, as well as his appetites.

Ok, update on my baby beardie. He is still really lethargic and sleeps most of the day and night. I’ve been soaking him in warm baths twice a day which is when I get him to take his liquid calcium from the vet and I’ve been feeding him some baby food, veggies and some fruits. I also mix in multivitamins into the baby food. He eats about .3cc of the baby food mixture at a time. He is also eating at least 1-2 small crickets a day. He poops at least 2 times a day. I have him in a 20gallon habitat. 100w basking build, 10.0 UVB bulb with reflector. At night he is under a 60w ceramic infared heat emitter. I’m receiving 200 Dubia Roaches tomorrow. I’ve heard they are much better for them. I sprinkle calcium on his pellets, crickets and in his water! I am taking a decal sample to the vet today looking for parasites. I’m posting pics of my set up next. All my set up is ZooMed items!