Baby beardie has small appetite

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Baby beardie has small appetite

Postby Akire » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:30 pm

I've had my baby Norbert for a little over a week now. He weighed 18 grams on 9/15 so I figured he must be 2 months old? Not sure if that sounds right or not. He is pooping regularly (not overly smelly or watery). I'm a bit worried right now because his appetite seems small/decreasing. Ever since I've had him the most he's eaten in a day is 15 bugs (mix of dubia and butterworms). I keep reading about babies eating 50 or more bugs a day so I'm really worried, especially since I was reading about baby beardies having failure to thrive today. I really hope he doesn't have that! 😢

He doesn't seem to like crickets, so I've been offering him small Dubia and Butterworms. He loved both of those before, but yesterday and today I've only gotten him to eat like 4 bugs a day and two little pieces of greens (I've been offering Collard and Dandelion). He also liked when I gave him a bit of carrot or zucchini before, but now he doesn't. He ate two butterworms this morning. I tried giving another using tongs and he did go to grab it, but not firmly so he didn't take it. He licked his lips a few times and wouldn't try again. He then ate two little bits of greens out of my hand. I left the butterworms in his tank for a while but he never showed interest. Tonight for dinner he ate 3 butterworms (then he just refuses anymore and gives me the stink eye if I keep bothering him), a few pieces of greens and a tiny bit of shredded zucchini.

So I'm not sure what is happening. He will act really hungry as he eats the first few. Then he just seems full. You'd think he would get hungry again and eat the bugs I leave in a shallow dish, but he doesn't. Is it because he is so small? Should I be concerned? I've got Fluckers Repta-Boost on hand just in case. Despite his very small appetite he hasn't lost weight and has actually gained some. He was 22 grams today (up from 18g).

How old is your dragon? 2 months?
How long have you had your dragon? 1 week, 3 days
How long is your dragon? 8 inches
What is the sex of your dragon? Reptile shop said male
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in? 20 gallon high
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank? Paper towels
Do you use UVB lights? Yes
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb? Fluorescent
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)? Zoo Med ReptiSun T5 HO 10.0
How old is your UVB bulb? Brand new
How close can your dragon get to the UVB? Looks to be 6 inches
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage? Is it a white or colored bulb? Yes. Zoo Med Basking Spot Lamp. 75 watts
What are the basking temps? 107 F
What is the cool side temp? 80-85 F
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun? Zoo Med Digital thermometer with probe
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps? On his basking branch where he usually likes to sit
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? No
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific. Dubia, Butterworms, sometimes Crickets, Collard & Dandelion greens, tiny bit Carrot
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)? *At least* Once in the morning (two hours after lights are on) and once at night (two hours before lights off), greens & veggie are left in the enclosure all day
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc? Yes, I give them carrot, collard and dandelion greens. Except the butterworms which are in the refrigerator
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them? Yes. Rep-Cal Calcium with Vit. D3 5x a week. Zoo Med Reptivite 2x a week
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)? Yes
Do you bath your dragon? How often? Not really. I have twice in time I've had him only because I was concerned about hydration
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath? Yes. I mist him once or twice a day making sure he gets water droplets on his nose
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done? No
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon? No
Last edited by Akire on Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Baby beardie has small appetite

Postby Savora » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:20 am

Your little guy is simply adorable! I love his colors. Is he a leatherback?

Your setup seems to be stellar, so I don't think his lessened appetite would be from anything related to that. It's possible that he might have some parasites, but I would wait until he drops a little weight or is having runny stools before I get a fecal done.

It's also possible that he might be having a shed coming on. Does any of his skin seem dull? Or, possibly, is his skin making a plastic bag noise when he's moving? ( :lol: My beardie sounds like a bunch of crunching paper when she's having a big shed. Poor thing :roll: )
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Re: Baby beardie has small appetite

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:48 am

Akire wrote:I've had my baby Trico for a little over a week now. He weighed 18 grams on 9/15 so I figured he must be 2 months old? Not sure if that sounds right or not. He is pooping regularly (not overly smelly or watery). I'm a bit worried right now because his appetite seems small/decreasing. Ever since I've had him the most he's eaten in a day is 15 bugs (mix of dubia and butterworms). I keep reading about babies eating 50 or more bugs a day so I'm really worried, especially since I was reading about baby beardies having failure to thrive today. I really hope he doesn't have that! 😢

He doesn't seem to like crickets, so I've been offering him small Dubia and Butterworms. He loved both of those before, but yesterday and today I've only gotten him to eat like 4 bugs a day and two little pieces of greens (I've been offering Collard and Dandelion). He also liked when I gave him a bit of carrot or zucchini before, but now he doesn't. He ate two butterworms this morning. I tried giving another using tongs and he did go to grab it, but not firmly so he didn't take it. He licked his lips a few times and wouldn't try again. He then ate two little bits of greens out of my hand. I left the butterworms in his tank for a while but he never showed interest. Tonight for dinner he ate 3 butterworms (then he just refuses anymore and gives me the stink eye if I keep bothering him), a few pieces of greens and a tiny bit of shredded zucchini.

So I'm not sure what is happening. He will act really hungry as he eats the first few. Then he just seems full. You'd think he would get hungry again and eat the bugs I leave in a shallow dish, but he doesn't. Is it because he is so small? Should I be concerned? I've got Fluckers Repta-Boost on hand just in case. Despite his very small appetite he hasn't lost weight and has actually gained some. He was 22 grams today (up from 18g).

Here he is; seems to have a pretty round tummy 😄

Image

Image

His set-up. Let me know if you think anything needs to be changed!

Image

How old is your dragon? 2 months?
How long have you had your dragon? 1 week, 3 days
How long is your dragon? 8 inches
What is the sex of your dragon? Reptile shop said male
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in? 20 gallon high
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank? Paper towels
Do you use UVB lights? Yes
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb? Fluorescent
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)? Zoo Med ReptiSun T5 HO 10.0
How old is your UVB bulb? Brand new
How close can your dragon get to the UVB? Looks to be 6 inches
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage? Is it a white or colored bulb? Yes. Zoo Med Basking Spot Lamp. 75 watts
What are the basking temps? 107 F
What is the cool side temp? 80-85 F
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun? Zoo Med Digital thermometer with probe
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps? On his basking branch where he usually likes to sit
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? No
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific. Dubia, Butterworms, sometimes Crickets, Collard & Dandelion greens, tiny bit Carrot
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)? *At least* Once in the morning (two hours after lights are on) and once at night (two hours before lights off), greens & veggie are left in the enclosure all day
<<<<< I'm betting he's pigging out on the salad and so is too full to eat his live insect protein, my hatchlings did that to me , so I held back the salad until after they had eaten their first two meals of insects , this sorted out the problem for us.

Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc? Yes, I give them carrot, collard and dandelion greens. Except the butterworms which are in the refrigerator
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them? Yes. Rep-Cal Calcium with Vit. D3 5x a week. Zoo Med Reptivite 2x a week
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)? Yes
Do you bath your dragon? How often? Not really. I have twice in time I've had him only because I was concerned about hydration
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath? Yes. I mist him once or twice a day making sure he gets water droplets on his nose
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done? No
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon? No
CBDs: Puff (RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born 9/2010).
EWSs : Lucky (wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old .
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Re: Baby beardie has small appetite

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:51 am

Savora wrote:Your little guy is simply adorable! I love his colors. Is he a leatherback?

Your setup seems to be stellar, so I don't think his lessened appetite would be from anything related to that. It's possible that he might have some parasites, but I would wait until he drops a little weight or is having runny stools before I get a fecal done.

It's also possible that he might be having a shed coming on. Does any of his skin seem dull? Or, possibly, is his skin making a plastic bag noise when he's moving? ( :lol: My beardie sounds like a bunch of crunching paper when she's having a big shed. Poor thing :roll: )


he sure is a handsome little leatherback.... how did the seller tell you he was ?

Have you weighed him ? He was 22 grams today (up from 18g). your earlier post ... (4 -6 weeks old)

Three insect meals per day , as many as he wants each meal (give the fast movers 2 - 3 at a time and stop when he looses interest.
The Butterworms can be lunch (I'd leave them in a dish they can't get out off but he can get in and out off easily and place it where he can see the worms , he'll soon discover them and eat them at his leisure.
CBDs: Puff (RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born 9/2010).
EWSs : Lucky (wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old .
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Re: Baby beardie has small appetite

Postby Akire » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:40 pm

Thanks for the replies, I really appreciate it. I'm happy to report his appetite was the best it has ever been today. He ate about 20 feeders (mix of dubia and butterworms) and did good with his greens. Which of course is way better than only eating 4 bugs in a day. Hopefully he keeps it up!

Savora wrote:Your little guy is simply adorable! I love his colors. Is he a leatherback?

Your setup seems to be stellar, so I don't think his lessened appetite would be from anything related to that. It's possible that he might have some parasites, but I would wait until he drops a little weight or is having runny stools before I get a fecal done.

It's also possible that he might be having a shed coming on. Does any of his skin seem dull? Or, possibly, is his skin making a plastic bag noise when he's moving? ( :lol: My beardie sounds like a bunch of crunching paper when she's having a big shed. Poor thing :roll: )


Aw, thank you! 😊 That makes me feel a lot better because I've been obsessing over his set-up and if I'm doing everything properly, haha. Oh and you are correct! He's a leatherback. I was wondering about possible parasites as well, but his poops aren't overly smelly or runny. I will take your advice and if he loses weight or his poops change I will get a fecal sample checked.

He has been shedding kind of continuously, but little bits at a time. I don't know if that could have something to do with it. Like today I noticed his lips are shedding and his little nostrils.

kingofnobbys wrote:<<<<< I'm betting he's pigging out on the salad and so is too full to eat his live insect protein, my hatchlings did that to me , so I held back the salad until after they had eaten their first two meals of insects , this sorted out the problem for us.


I thought that too, so I made sure I was only giving him greens after he ate his bugs. Never thought I would have to do that since most people have trouble getting their beardies to eat greens. So that doesn't seem to be the reason.

kingofnobbys wrote:he sure is a handsome little leatherback.... how did the seller tell you he was ?

Have you weighed him ? He was 22 grams today (up from 18g). your earlier post ... (4 -6 weeks old)

Three insect meals per day , as many as he wants each meal (give the fast movers 2 - 3 at a time and stop when he looses interest.
The Butterworms can be lunch (I'd leave them in a dish they can't get out off but he can get in and out off easily and place it where he can see the worms , he'll soon discover them and eat them at his leisure.


Thank you! Did you mean to ask me how old the seller told me he was? I'm guessing so. They didn't say and in my excitement I forgot to ask. I could probably call the reptile store where I got him from and see if they know. I guessed going off his weight and size (8 inches) that he is probably 2 months old?

I did weigh him. On September 15th he was 18 grams. On September 22nd he was 22 grams. So in the span of a week he put on 4 grams. Seems pretty good. I'm just happy he didn't lose weight!
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Re: Baby beardie has small appetite

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:35 pm

Akire wrote:Thanks for the replies, I really appreciate it. I'm happy to report his appetite was the best it has ever been today. He ate about 20 feeders (mix of dubia and butterworms) and did good with his greens. Which of course is way better than only eating 4 bugs in a day. Hopefully he keeps it up!

Savora wrote:Your little guy is simply adorable! I love his colors. Is he a leatherback?

Your setup seems to be stellar, so I don't think his lessened appetite would be from anything related to that. It's possible that he might have some parasites, but I would wait until he drops a little weight or is having runny stools before I get a fecal done.

It's also possible that he might be having a shed coming on. Does any of his skin seem dull? Or, possibly, is his skin making a plastic bag noise when he's moving? ( :lol: My beardie sounds like a bunch of crunching paper when she's having a big shed. Poor thing :roll: )


Aw, thank you! 😊 That makes me feel a lot better because I've been obsessing over his set-up and if I'm doing everything properly, haha. Oh and you are correct! He's a leatherback. I was wondering about possible parasites as well, but his poops aren't overly smelly or runny. I will take your advice and if he loses weight or his poops change I will get a fecal sample checked.

He has been shedding kind of continuously, but little bits at a time. I don't know if that could have something to do with it. Like today I noticed his lips are shedding and his little nostrils.

kingofnobbys wrote:<<<<< I'm betting he's pigging out on the salad and so is too full to eat his live insect protein, my hatchlings did that to me , so I held back the salad until after they had eaten their first two meals of insects , this sorted out the problem for us.


I thought that too, so I made sure I was only giving him greens after he ate his bugs. Never thought I would have to do that since most people have trouble getting their beardies to eat greens. So that doesn't seem to be the reason.

kingofnobbys wrote:he sure is a handsome little leatherback.... how did the seller tell you he was ?

Have you weighed him ? He was 22 grams today (up from 18g). your earlier post ... (4 -6 weeks old)

Three insect meals per day , as many as he wants each meal (give the fast movers 2 - 3 at a time and stop when he looses interest.
The Butterworms can be lunch (I'd leave them in a dish they can't get out off but he can get in and out off easily and place it where he can see the worms , he'll soon discover them and eat them at his leisure.


Thank you! Did you mean to ask me how old the seller told me he was? I'm guessing so. They didn't say and in my excitement I forgot to ask. I could probably call the reptile store where I got him from and see if they know. I guessed going off his weight and size (8 inches) that he is probably 2 months old?

I did weigh him. On September 15th he was 18 grams. On September 22nd he was 22 grams. So in the span of a week he put on 4 grams. Seems pretty good. I'm just happy he didn't lose weight!


3 - 6g growth per week at his age is just fine.... nothing to worry about in the growth department.
CBDs: Puff (RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born 9/2010).
EWSs : Lucky (wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old .
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Re: Baby beardie has small appetite

Postby AHBD » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:21 am

Hi there,that is a beautiful little dragon, healthy looking and alert and the set up is very nice. :) You say he's basking well ?

I believe that his lack of appetite is not from eating veggies [ I raised hatchlings for 20 years + they all ate greens from about 2 weeks old ] The culprit is most likely the butterworms. They are very fatty + even young dragons get spoiled + then eat those rather than the crickets, and since they are fatty they are also very filling so he doesn't need very many. Try cutting those out completely....don't hold off on the greens, my dragons always ate both greens + loads of crickets as babies. Just cut out the fatty worms + see if his appetite comes back.

Also, check your t5 Reptisun bulb to see f the end pieces are gold, silver or red. There's been some testing done that shows that some may not be producing the high output uvb. The ones with silver ends seem to be O.K, the others not as strong. In a 20 tall aquarium he may not be getting quite as much uvb if he's not basking up high .
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Re: Baby beardie has small appetite

Postby EllenD » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:21 am

AHBD took the words right out of my mouth! It's because of the butterworms, without a doubt. They are full of fat and water, and extremely filling, especially for a little guy like that. 3 butterworms is all he can eat. When you see people saying their baby eats 40 bugs a day they are talking about small dubias or crickets. Butterworms are essentially very large wax worms and not at all a staple feeder. You shouldn't be feeding them to him as a staple feeder, in fact 1-2 butterworms a week as a treat should be the limit. They have very low protein content (which he needs tons of from hatching to a year old, your guy isn't getting near enough protein), very low vitamin content, and so much fat content that he's going to start developing fatty liver disease very young. Again, butterworms and wax worms are occasional treats only, only a couple a week at the absolute maximum. Once you stop the butterworms and/or wax worms completely (he may refuse to eat healthy insects for a few days to a week now because he'll be holding out for the junk food, just be strong and don't dare give him any) and feed him only healthy, protein rich live insects, like gut-loaded CRI keys, dubias or other roaches, Phoenix Worms/Reptiworms/Calciworms/BSFL, or Silkworms, he'll start eating plenty more insects right away, trust me. But you have to ditch the butterworms, I just glanced at the feeder insect nutritional chart to see what the fat content of butterworms is, and it's not only has the highest fat content of any, including wax worms, it's double what wax worms have! He's at a great risk for early fatty liver disease and a protein deficiency.

I'd not even offer them as a treat for a while, only the gut loaded dubias if that's what you have, they are a great staple feeder, loaded with protein, and almost no fat. Make sure they are smaller than the space between his eyes, he'll start devouring dozens of them from now on, like I said, he'll probably go on a hunger strike for up to a week while holding out for the junk food, but just offer his dubias at least 2 times a day, 3 is better, as many as he wants to eat in a 10-15 minute feeding session, 2-3 sessions every day until he's 8 months old, along with offering fresh greens after his first dubia feeding every day. He'll be fine once you make this change.
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Re: Baby beardie has small appetite

Postby Akire » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:29 pm

kingofnobbys wrote:3 - 6g growth per week at his age is just fine.... nothing to worry about in the growth department.

That is great to hear! I'm happy he is on track in the growth department. 😊

AHBD wrote:Hi there,that is a beautiful little dragon, healthy looking and alert and the set up is very nice. :) You say he's basking well ?

I believe that his lack of appetite is not from eating veggies [ I raised hatchlings for 20 years + they all ate greens from about 2 weeks old ] The culprit is most likely the butterworms. They are very fatty + even young dragons get spoiled + then eat those rather than the crickets, and since they are fatty they are also very filling so he doesn't need very many. Try cutting those out completely....don't hold off on the greens, my dragons always ate both greens + loads of crickets as babies. Just cut out the fatty worms + see if his appetite comes back.

Also, check your t5 Reptisun bulb to see f the end pieces are gold, silver or red. There's been some testing done that shows that some may not be producing the high output uvb. The ones with silver ends seem to be O.K, the others not as strong. In a 20 tall aquarium he may not be getting quite as much uvb if he's not basking up high .

Thank you so much! Yes, he basks extremely well. Pretty much all of his time is spent basking. A few times a day he will move to the cool end or jump down from his log and explore a bit, but it's only for a minute or two then he's right back to basking.

I had no idea about the butterworms being so filling and fatty! Very good to know. His appetite has improved quite a lot (yesterday and today so far) which is a relief. He is out of butterworms now. I think I will buy some Phoenix worms instead. He had some before and seemed to really enjoy them. They are probably cheaper than the butterworms too, haha.

Oh and I just looked at my Reptisun bulb. It has silver caps on the ends and the prongs are gold. Is that okay? He is usually sitting at around 6 inches from it. Sometimes closer because as the pictures of his enclosure show, he can go up pretty high on his branch. He likes to sit at the very top sometimes. Thanks for the help!

EllenD wrote:AHBD took the words right out of my mouth! It's because of the butterworms, without a doubt. They are full of fat and water, and extremely filling, especially for a little guy like that. 3 butterworms is all he can eat. When you see people saying their baby eats 40 bugs a day they are talking about small dubias or crickets. Butterworms are essentially very large wax worms and not at all a staple feeder. You shouldn't be feeding them to him as a staple feeder, in fact 1-2 butterworms a week as a treat should be the limit. They have very low protein content (which he needs tons of from hatching to a year old, your guy isn't getting near enough protein), very low vitamin content, and so much fat content that he's going to start developing fatty liver disease very young. Again, butterworms and wax worms are occasional treats only, only a couple a week at the absolute maximum. Once you stop the butterworms and/or wax worms completely (he may refuse to eat healthy insects for a few days to a week now because he'll be holding out for the junk food, just be strong and don't dare give him any) and feed him only healthy, protein rich live insects, like gut-loaded CRI keys, dubias or other roaches, Phoenix Worms/Reptiworms/Calciworms/BSFL, or Silkworms, he'll start eating plenty more insects right away, trust me. But you have to ditch the butterworms, I just glanced at the feeder insect nutritional chart to see what the fat content of butterworms is, and it's not only has the highest fat content of any, including wax worms, it's double what wax worms have! He's at a great risk for early fatty liver disease and a protein deficiency.

I'd not even offer them as a treat for a while, only the gut loaded dubias if that's what you have, they are a great staple feeder, loaded with protein, and almost no fat. Make sure they are smaller than the space between his eyes, he'll start devouring dozens of them from now on, like I said, he'll probably go on a hunger strike for up to a week while holding out for the junk food, but just offer his dubias at least 2 times a day, 3 is better, as many as he wants to eat in a 10-15 minute feeding session, 2-3 sessions every day until he's 8 months old, along with offering fresh greens after his first dubia feeding every day. He'll be fine once you make this change.

Why does the internet always have conflicting information? 😒 I had read on this very forum that butterworms are fine and could even be a staple. Mind you it was an old thread from 2010. Obviously I believe you! It just sucks I got incorrect info. Just shows you always gotta do your own research. My baby is getting good protein though; he mostly eats Dubias as I've said which as we all know are an excellent source of protein.

I should make it clear that he was NEVER being fed only butterworms. That was never going to be his staple. Originally crickets were, but then I decided on Dubia, which he likes way more. He gets happy colors when he eats them, haha. I see now that I have been feeding way too many butterworms since I was unaware of how fatty they are. Like seriously, double fat than waxworms? Yikes! I knew about waxworms being a treat.

I appreciate all the info on butterworms. I will definitely only offer them as a treat in the future, but for now I will cut them out completely and replace them with Phoenix worms. Thanks!
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Re: Baby beardie has small appetite

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:49 pm

Akire wrote:
kingofnobbys wrote:3 - 6g growth per week at his age is just fine.... nothing to worry about in the growth department.

That is great to hear! I'm happy he is on track in the growth department. 😊

AHBD wrote:Hi there,that is a beautiful little dragon, healthy looking and alert and the set up is very nice. :) You say he's basking well ?

I believe that his lack of appetite is not from eating veggies [ I raised hatchlings for 20 years + they all ate greens from about 2 weeks old ] The culprit is most likely the butterworms. They are very fatty + even young dragons get spoiled + then eat those rather than the crickets, and since they are fatty they are also very filling so he doesn't need very many. Try cutting those out completely....don't hold off on the greens, my dragons always ate both greens + loads of crickets as babies. Just cut out the fatty worms + see if his appetite comes back.

Also, check your t5 Reptisun bulb to see f the end pieces are gold, silver or red. There's been some testing done that shows that some may not be producing the high output uvb. The ones with silver ends seem to be O.K, the others not as strong. In a 20 tall aquarium he may not be getting quite as much uvb if he's not basking up high .

Thank you so much! Yes, he basks extremely well. Pretty much all of his time is spent basking. A few times a day he will move to the cool end or jump down from his log and explore a bit, but it's only for a minute or two then he's right back to basking.

I had no idea about the butterworms being so filling and fatty! Very good to know. His appetite has improved quite a lot (yesterday and today so far) which is a relief. He is out of butterworms now. I think I will buy some Phoenix worms instead. He had some before and seemed to really enjoy them. They are probably cheaper than the butterworms too, haha.

Oh and I just looked at my Reptisun bulb. It has silver caps on the ends and the prongs are gold. Is that okay? He is usually sitting at around 6 inches from it. Sometimes closer because as the pictures of his enclosure show, he can go up pretty high on his branch. He likes to sit at the very top sometimes. Thanks for the help!

EllenD wrote: Butterworms are essentially very large wax worms and not at all a staple feeder. You shouldn't be feeding them to him as a staple feeder, in fact 1-2 butterworms a week as a treat should be the limit. They have very low protein content (which he needs tons of from hatching to a year old, your guy isn't getting near enough protein), very low vitamin content, and so much fat content that he's going to start developing fatty liver disease very young. Again, butterworms and wax worms are occasional treats only, only a couple a week at the absolute maximum. Once you stop the butterworms and/or wax worms completely (he may refuse to eat healthy insects for a few days to a week now because he'll be holding out for the junk food, just be strong and don't dare give him any) and feed him only healthy, protein rich live insects, like gut-loaded CRI keys, dubias or other roaches, Phoenix Worms/Reptiworms/Calciworms/BSFL, or Silkworms, he'll start eating plenty more insects right away, trust me. But you have to ditch the butterworms, I just glanced at the feeder insect nutritional chart to see what the fat content of butterworms is, and it's not only has the highest fat content of any, including wax worms, it's double what wax worms have! He's at a great risk for early fatty liver disease and a protein deficiency.

I'd not even offer them as a treat for a while, only the gut loaded dubias if that's what you have, they are a great staple feeder, loaded with protein, and almost no fat. Make sure they are smaller than the space between his eyes, he'll start devouring dozens of them from now on, like I said, he'll probably go on a hunger strike for up to a week while holding out for the junk food, but just offer his dubias at least 2 times a day, 3 is better, as many as he wants to eat in a 10-15 minute feeding session, 2-3 sessions every day until he's 8 months old, along with offering fresh greens after his first dubia feeding every day. He'll be fine once you make this change.

Why does the internet always have conflicting information? 😒 I had read on this very forum that butterworms are fine and could even be a staple. Mind you it was an old thread from 2010. Obviously I believe you! It just sucks I got incorrect info. Just shows you always gotta do your own research. My baby is getting good protein though; he mostly eats Dubias as I've said which as we all know are an excellent source of protein.

I should make it clear that he was NEVER being fed only butterworms. That was never going to be his staple. Originally crickets were, but then I decided on Dubia, which he likes way more. He gets happy colors when he eats them, haha. I see now that I have been feeding way too many butterworms since I was unaware of how fatty they are. Like seriously, double fat than waxworms? Yikes! I knew about waxworms being a treat.

I appreciate all the info on butterworms. I will definitely only offer them as a treat in the future, but for now I will cut them out completely and replace them with Phoenix worms. Thanks!



See viewtopic.php?f=76&t=234999&p=1807834#p1807834
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Butterworms are fine and from what I can see of the nutritional content are suitable to use as a staple feeder. Unless this chart is misleading. There is indeed conflicting nutritional data about butterworms and without knowing the methods used and the reliability of the assatys it's hard to know which set of data about butterworms to believe.

Being wild-caught, Butterworms likely provide nutrients absent from commercially-reared insects. They also exceed all other typical feeder insects in calcium content (please see Introduction, above), with only silkworms and phoenix worms approaching them in this regard (some find silkworms to be delicate, and phoenix worms are quite small, but both are also worth investigating).
The Butterworm’s protein content of 16.2% is on par with that of crickets, phoenix worms and waxworms, and below that provided by silkworms and roaches. Fat content stands at 5.21%, which is less than (considerably so, in many cases) that of all other commonly-used feeders.
http://blogs.thatpetplace.com/thatrepti ... cn-RjGsWHs

If he likes them and you can get them, use them.

Can't get them here in Australia , there are similar grubs though that are often found in gardens when diging.
They are big like a medium size silkworm , so one or two may be big feed for your hatchling purely due to the hatchling's stomache compacity (about 4 ml/100g body weight , ie under 1 ml).
CBDs: Puff (RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born 9/2010).
EWSs : Lucky (wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old .
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Re: Baby beardie has small appetite

Postby EllenD » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:00 am

Another case of very conflicting info...My image uploader doesn't work, but below is the link to The Reptile Report feeder insect nutritional chart, and it says exactly the opposite of what Knobbys chart say, which if you think about it makes perfect sense, they are just big grubs, or big wax worms...
http://thereptilereport.com/the-most-co ... ion-chart/

Do not feed them as a staple, way too much fat.
Phoenix Worms are 14% fat, wax worms 24.9%, butterworms 29.9%...My bad on the "double the wax worms content", I was looking at "mealworms" right above wax worms, which are 13.9%, but none the less they contain more fat content than wax worms, and the highest of all common feeders.
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Re: Baby beardie has small appetite

Postby Akire » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:49 pm

Just wanted to give an update. Norbert's appetite is much better and a lot more consistent!

He's eating Dubia as his staple and I just ordered some Phoenix Worms. Still eating his greens happily like a good boy. He poops very regularly (typically once a day) and usually in the same spot, which is convenient for me. He was 22 grams on 9/23 and his weight today was 30 grams. So he's gained 8 grams in a little over a week.
Last edited by Akire on Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Baby beardie has small appetite

Postby EllenD » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:19 am

Glad he's doing well. Phoenix Worms are excellent feeders, they have been my staple feeder for 10 years and my guys have all done very well on them. Please do dust them, even if the seller mentioned that you "don't need to dust Phoenix Worms because they have enough Calcium", they do have a high calcium content, but not high enough to not dust at all. And always keep them in a cool area to slow them down from turning, but never in the refrigerator because they'll die! I keep mine in my basement (split level house, basement/ground level is not really a basement, just my walk-out ground level connected to my garage built under the house, so it's around 55-60 down there in the summer without the heat turned on). I go collect the number I need for a feeding in a smaller container, rinse them in warm water to wake them up, then dust and feed. They'll last about a month or so at 55-60 degrees. Always feed the darkest colored ones first, they are closest to turning and have the highest calcium content.
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Re: Baby beardie has small appetite

Postby Akire » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:40 pm

Thanks so much for the tips! I was thinking about getting one of those small foam coolers to keep the Phoenix Worms in and add a frozen water bottle. Then I would keep a spare water bottle in the freezer and just swap them out each day. Not sure how well it will work but it's all I got.
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Re: Baby beardie has small appetite

Postby EllenD » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:02 am

That will work perfectly, I've done the same with a small cooler and ice packs I would swap out of the freezer in the morning and then again at night, worked very well.
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