Intestinal Bacteria

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Intestinal Bacteria

Postby Adriana0918 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:36 pm

So the vet called me back finally and has told me that Hemingway has 3 different intestinal bacterias that aren't considered normal. They include Proteus, E Coli, and one that I can't quite spell.. starts with a C but couldn't catch what she said on the phone. She said she found a single medicine for all three of them called Enrofloxacin. Should I give probiotics with this? I asked her and she said it wouldn't make much difference but it wouldn't hurt. How do they get this type of bacteria?? Was it something I did? Would like to prevent this in the future...
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Re: Intestinal Bacteria

Postby EllenD » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:39 pm

First of all, yes, always give probiotics when they are given meds, as it absolutely does make a difference. The meds are harsh on their stomachs and the probiotics settle them and keep their appetites up, and most antibiotics kill off the normal flora in their gastrointestinal tracts, and the probiotics replace them. Without probiotics the meds can kill off the normal bacteria found in the gastrointestinal tract, which often results in a secondary yeast infection in their gastrointestinal tracts because the normal bacteria is no longer present to keep the yeast at bay.

Baytril (enrofloxacin) is a Broad-spectrum antibiotic, but you need to figure out what the third bacteria they detected is, and what the count was, because if it was Coccidia, yes, it is normally present in low counts and does not need to be treated, but in moderate to high counts it is too prevalent and does need to be treated... However, Baytril will not treat coccidia, coccidia is a Protozoan infection and requires an Antiprotozoan medication, like Toltrazuril (Ponazuril), not Baytril. Proteus and ecoli infections are common bacterial infections, should clear pretty quickly, but again if it was coccidia that was also cultured and diagnosed, you need to not only confirm but also find out the load or count level...

Could it have been Klebsiella?
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Re: Intestinal Bacteria

Postby Adriana0918 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:32 pm

I know it wasn't coccidia, he's had it before and it was treated with Toltrazuril. I'm going in hopefully this weekend to pick up the meds so I'll ask. His Routine Fecal was completely normal, no alarming parasites. The fecal culture, however, showed the 3 abnormal bacterias. I don't think it was Klebsiella, it doesn't sound like what she said. It sounded something like Central Vector? Not sure. I'll actually call tomorrow and ask. I have done some research on that antibiotic and have read how harsh it is. Not sure what probiotic to use either, I have used Reptophilus and Benebac bird gel in the past but heard good things about Bene-Bac powder. Which would you recommend?
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Re: Intestinal Bacteria

Postby CooperDragon » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:50 am

Baytril is a general antibiotic that is prescribed pretty often. It can be rough on the kidneys after a while so I suggest offering plenty of water and using some of the Reptophilus from Tracie's site is a good idea. I'm not a fan of the Bene-bac formula.
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Re: Intestinal Bacteria

Postby EllenD » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:20 am

Regular BeneBac is fine, so are the reptile specific probiotics like you have. I use acidophilus with great results as well.
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Re: Intestinal Bacteria

Postby Adriana0918 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:53 pm

I ordered the Reptophilus from Tracie's website. Have to go in on monday to get the meds. Hoping this is finally it, he's been on too many meds.
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Re: Intestinal Bacteria

Postby AHBD » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:04 pm

Was the 3rd infection possibly campylobacter ? Reptiles reportedly can carry it without it affecting them. Hopefully the treatment that's been prescribed will help Hemingway.

Be sure to wash your hands well after handling him if he's dirty or when cleaning his tank.
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Re: Intestinal Bacteria

Postby EllenD » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:01 pm

AHBD wrote:Was the 3rd infection possibly campylobacter ? Reptiles reportedly can carry it without it affecting them. Hopefully the treatment that's been prescribed will help Hemingway.

Be sure to wash your hands well after handling him if he's dirty or when cleaning his tank.



Good call! Campylobacter is much like Coccidia, it's mere presence in low counts doesn't require treatment, in high counts that are producing symptoms you need to treat it. I have no idea if Baytril treats it or not though.
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Re: Intestinal Bacteria

Postby Adriana0918 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:17 am

It very well could have been Campylobactor! Sounds a lot like what she said. The vet said they tested a few meds to see if they could pinpoint one medicine to treat all three types of bacteria and Baytril was the one.
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Re: Intestinal Bacteria

Postby Adriana0918 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:29 pm

I haven't been able to update lately with school and extracurriculars but Hemingway finished his meds (10 days on Baytril with Reptophilus and hydration) and he isn't doing well at all. He isn't eating at all and only basks for a little while if i put him on his basking spot. The vet wants me to give him 6 ml of a mixture of carnivore care, critical care, water, and vanilla ensure every day until we decide what the next step will be. She wants to do blood work and x rays which will run me around 300$ and although I will if its absolutely necessary, I would like to try everything I can before we have to go down that road. Im at a loss and don't know what to do. I feel terrible, he looks uncomfortable to me :(
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Re: Intestinal Bacteria

Postby Adriana0918 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:44 pm

Just in case I'm doing something wrong I'd like to go over my set up:
Lights: ReptiSun 10.0 Tube (5 months old), 100W Exo-Terra Solar-Glo MVB (5 months old), a regular low-watt bulb on cool side to keep temp up
Temps: Cool Side ranges from 75-80 (Usually around 78), Basking Spot ranges 95-10
Set-Up: Paper towel as substrate and a basking rock (have been keeping it simple for now for disinfecting purposes (I clean with a reptile safe disinfectant))
Food: Dubia Roaches and Collard Greens (Calcium and Multivitamins given)
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Re: Intestinal Bacteria

Postby AHBD » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:53 am

First off, do you have current pics of Hemingway ? Does he eat the carnivore care mixture ? And this is very important....how long was he on the different meds. in the past, including when he had coccodia ?

Personally I would give him a break from all the meds. and not take him back in. The problem may very well be that they over medicated him when he was not really in any danger from the parasites, then they put him on Baytril [ enrofloxacin ] for the bacteria which most beardies carry naturally in their gut anyway. No wonder the poor guy has no appetite. You might bump his basking temp. up by 5 degrees. Also, how close can he get to the Reptisun bulb ?

I would just let him be for a while, no more tests + meds. He will have runny poo since lots of his good bacteria is gone from his gut now. Offer live food a few times a week, at some point his appetite should return. Offer probiotics [ soy yogurt, fruit flavored ] and mix a little bee pollen in.

But post full body pics of him and his set up .
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Re: Intestinal Bacteria

Postby Adriana0918 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:17 am

I’ll post a picture of him and his setup as soon as I get home, I haven’t received the powders yet they should be here tomorrow. He was on 3 different meds total for the coccidia and pinworms. Ponazuril (.13 ml one day, skip 2 days and then give .13ml) and Albon (.2ml a day for 5 days) and this was in September of last year. Then they decided to do another round 2-3 weeks later. Then they decided to give toltrazuril (I forget how long and how much) but this was in October of last year. Then I decided to not medicate him again and he didn’t get much better. Then in September, a full year since his first round of meds they gave baytril (for 10 days, not sure the amount but syringes were premeasured) for bacteria they found. Last dose of baytril was given around a week and a half- two weeks ago.

He can get about 6-8 inches from the mvb bulb and around 8-10 inches from reptisun tube.
Will certainly order bee pollen from tracies site today.
Should I continue reprophilus or should I stop and give the yogurt. Also what brand is best for the yogurt and how much yogurt should he get every day? He’s around 450g.
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Re: Intestinal Bacteria

Postby AHBD » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:40 pm

Oh, if he likes the Reptrophilus then that's fine. :)
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Re: Intestinal Bacteria

Postby Adriana0918 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:01 pm

Ok so I'll keep the Reptophilus going, I've been giving him 1ml every day since the meds.
So no tests or meds for a good while.

Here's his setup:[Click image to enlarge]

Its very simple for disinfecting purposes from the parasites and bacteria but soon I do want to put his stuff back in.

Here are a few pics of him:[Click image to enlarge]
[Click image to enlarge]
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