Does anyone have a suggestion?

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Does anyone have a suggestion?

Postby Kayleebirdy » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:44 am

Hi! I have a 1 year old dragon, Lizzie. She is on her 3rd round of coccidia, but with a new vet. She has stopped eating. Vet has taken X-rays, and given her a thorough checkup. Except for coccidia there isn't anything wrong with her. I'm feeding Critical Care with added vitamins and calcium. Also adding Bene-Bac power for probiotics. Bathing her twice a day because she was a little dry at vets on Sat.
I have disinfected Everything! Today is her last dose of Albon. We are at a loss to explain why she won't eat! I've even put a worm by her mouth and she won't eat it. She ate 1 cricket yesterday. That's it. Has anyone ever heard of an otherwise healthy dragon just stop eating? She's even gaining weight on the Critical Care! Help, my vet and I are down to blood testing and this is getting too expensive for me!
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Re: Does anyone have a suggestion?

Postby traildrifterphalanx » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:49 am

Albon is very hard on their system and is likely the reason she has no appetite. I take it her appetite was ok prior to medication?

I personally use Reptiphilus from Bug-de-lite to promote good gut flora during and after medication
http://www.bug-de-lite.com/store/index.php
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Re: Does anyone have a suggestion?

Postby Kayleebirdy » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:12 am

Thank you very much for your suggestion! I will check out your link! At this point, I've told her whatever she wants to eat to feel better, I'll get her; including a pepperoni pizza! :D
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Re: Does anyone have a suggestion?

Postby traildrifterphalanx » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:20 am

I love to offer my dragons completely impossible foods for them, with no intention of actually letting them have a bite, of course. :lol:

That Reptiphilus stuff helped immensely. While mine were not on Albon specifically, they were treated for coccidia and lost their appetites while on medication. They love the flavor of the juice and were eating again in no time.

Hope it helps! Keep us updated
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Re: Does anyone have a suggestion?

Postby EllenD » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:05 am

I agree, the Coccidia meds, as well as any and all antibiotics, antifungals, and antiparasitic meds are extremely harsh on their entire gastrointestinal systems, and they upset their stomachs so they lose their appetites. They can also cause diarrhea and even yeast infections because the antibiotics kill off the normal, healthy bacteria that keeps them in stasis and keeps fungi at bay. BeneBac can help restore the healthy bacteria in their intestinal tracts, but the acidophilus already mentioned is much better to settle their stomachs. I'd definitely order some of the specialty reptile acidophilus, and while you're waiting for it to arrive I'd buy a container of Silk brand Soy Yogurt (most common available, Walmart has it) or any other Soy Yogurt that is completely non-dairy and has live and active cultures, and feed him that with an eyedropper instead of the BeneBac, it should settle his stomach much better.

Also, if he's dehydrated, and I'm sure he is, it's because he's not eating. Beardies get most all of their hydration from their food, both their greens/veggies and their live insects. Most beardies do not drink from a bowl, nor from their bath. If you see your guy actively drinking from his bath then that's one thing, but beardies absolutely do not absorb hydration through their vents, so bathing him twice a day is way too much, and could actually be stressing him out more than he already is, which could be also effecting his appetite. The entire "They absorb hydration through their vents or their scales/skin by soaking in water" is just a myth that got passed around on the internet for some reason, it's absolutely untrue. They absorb absolutely no water at all through their vents, and what little water they may or may not absorb through their scales/skin does not ever make it to their bloodstream to be a form of hydration, just like humans are not "hydrated" through their skin by soaking in water. It can actually do the opposite and dehydrate them more, as the osmotic gradient can actually cause fluids to be drawn out of their bodies into the water. This is why our skin tends to become very dry and flakey after a bath or after swimming unless we use lotion.

The best ways to give your beardie hydration while he's not eating (or even when he is eating but still seems a bit dehydrated) is to drip either water or better yet use unflavored Pedialyte on his snout with an eyedropper, let him lick a drop off, then drip again, etc. and keep doing it until he stops licking it off. I myself as well as many beardie owners do this to their dragons at least once daily with water, even when they're healthy, just to keep them well hydrated. I myself believe giving a healthy beardie hydration this way once a day (same principle as misting them once a day if they lick the water off of their lips and snout) helps to keep their kidneys healthy and may even have a positive effect in reducing the occurances of gout. While your guy is not eating I'd use the unflavored Pedialyte and just drip it on his nose with an eyedropper or an oral syringe for as long as he'll lick it off, and you can also mix some of the unflavored Pedialyte into the Soy Yogurt as well, it will make it easier to drip the Soy Yogurt onto his snout, and he'll get hydration and electrolytes too. I just buy the generic Walmart brand of unflavored Pedialyte, works great. And he should be less stressed by the multiple bathing sessions every day, which is also known to unfortunately influence the spread of fungal infections.
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Re: Does anyone have a suggestion?

Postby Kayleebirdy » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:38 am

Thanks so much for all the wonderful info, Ellen! As per the other post, I did order the other probiotic. I'm going grocery shopping, so gonna pick up the yogurt and pedialyte.
As soon as I read your explanation about the bathing, it clicked! We'll go back to a bath every other day. She does drink her bath water, though. It's so cute to see her little tongue licking the water!
I'll be sure to let everyone know how this works. The only problem I see, is if the coccidia isn't gone. I'll be asking my vet for another med. I've read here some of the others out there that aren't so harsh. Going to go back over some posts to see if I can find them. Thankfully, today is her last day on the albon.
Thanks again for all the information. You all are so very kind and knowledgeable! Glad I found you! Blessings!
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Re: Does anyone have a suggestion?

Postby EllenD » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:44 pm

You're very welcome!!

Toltrazuril is very effective, as is Panacur...Flagyl is often used, but is a very harsh drug...I'd take along a new poop sample and have another fecal done just to make sure her coccidia load is still high, and there isn't another parasite, worm, or bacterial infection causing her to be sick. Coccidia is a Protozoan infection so the meds like Albon are very specific to Protozoan infections and won't help with much with other parasites, worms, or bacterial infections.
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Re: Does anyone have a suggestion?

Postby Kayleebirdy » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:44 am

Well, Lizzie has been coccidia clean since Monday and off albon since Thursday, the 10th. Still no food. The Reptiphilus came in, and she had her first dose this morning. She really liked it! Of course, she liked the soy yogurt too! They didn't have plain, so I got vanilla. You could see her eyes light up when the taste hit her tongue! :shock: Am I looking for her to start eating too soon?
Another thing happening, she won't bask. In the last few days she's basked once when she had a full syringe full of Critical Care. She's hanging out on the cool (85) side of her tank instead of the warm ( 100-104) side. Vet wanted me to keep her warmer. That's impossible unless I overheat the warm side!
Thanks again for all of everyone's help! I wouldn't have stayed sane this long without your help!
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Re: Does anyone have a suggestion?

Postby traildrifterphalanx » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:04 pm

If she's anything like my crew, her appetite will start picking up tomorrow. I used to give them half a dropper each morning for three days

Congratulations on being coccidia free!
It's possible she's just not feeling good and doesn't want to bask, or that it's too hot for her liking right now
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Re: Does anyone have a suggestion?

Postby Kayleebirdy » Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:06 pm

Thanks trail drifter! I'm thrilled there's no more coccidia! Of course, I bleached everything but her, until I found a cleaner by colorox that uses hydrogen peroxide. It's a commercial cleaner, but you can get it on Amazon. Colorox hydrogen peroxide disinfectant is its name. Has no bleach, therefore, no Smell! It's a little pricy at $12@bottle, but if you buy 2, they end up being $8.64@ piece.
Planning on feeding her tomorrow. Went out and got some worms and crickets for the occasion! :blob5:
Thanks again!
Blessings!
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Re: Does anyone have a suggestion?

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:10 pm

You were lucky .... not everyone gets as good a result

Hopefully she'll stay clear of coccidia , if it returns , and it likely will unless you can get all the parasite out of her system which will involve a 4 pronged attack..

You likely already read this thread viewtopic.php?f=45&t=235387 .
I've provided some some information I've dredged up from my books and by doing scholarly literature searches , you are welcome to show the information I've found to your vet so he will know THERE ARE OTHER TREATMENT / DRUG THEROPY OPTIONS and nearly all these alternatives are more effective than just trying Albon alone.

I refer you to the following pages in the thread :
page 2,
page 3 (table of antiparasitic drugs),
page 3 (list of anticoccidial drugs)
OP in that thread has been struggling to clear up a coccidia infestation in his beardie (he says for 3 months) and has only just started using a 4 prong treatment regime :

Prong 1 :
anticoccidial medication ie
Ponazuril for coccidia 20mg/ml suspension from a veterinary compounding pharmacy

+
Prong 2 :
anti-biotic to treat for secondary gut infection due to effects of coccidia
+
Prong 3 :
>>very frequent sterilization of the viv (he's removed just about everything that can harbor the parasitic and it is very Spartan now) , I recommended to him , and I will recommend the same to you , regular F10sc sterilization of the dragon's viv and all it's furnature (I'd recommend F10sc used at 1:125 dilution to be sure of killing all coccidial spores).
>> keep beardie warm 24/7 to help boost the immune system.
1 , 2 and 3 simultaneously.
Prong 4 :
regular microscope examination of poos to check for parasites.
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:06 am, edited 5 times in total.
CBDs: Puff (RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born 9/2010).
EWSs : Lucky (wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old .
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Re: Does anyone have a suggestion?

Postby Drache613 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:20 pm

Hello,

That's great she is coccidia free right now. It does take time for them to start eating again after
treatment or just in general not feeling well.
Are you using a digital probe or temp gun to measure the temperatures?
I am happy to hear she liked the Reptophilus, also, that is terrific. They do love the yogurt also.
I hope she starts feeling better soon. Just keep her warm overnight, around 80, in her tank to help out her immune system.

Let us know how Lizzie is doing!
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Re: Does anyone have a suggestion?

Postby Kayleebirdy » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:30 am

I use a temp gun for monitoring temps. It's Tuesday, and she still hasn't eaten. Giving her till Thursday, then we call the vet again. At this point, I'm out of ideas and completely stumped!
Did start mixing her Critical Care with yogurt. She's not spitting it out anymore!
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