Pls help: Sick Gravid Bearded Dragon

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ellentan

Member
Hello everyone,
I am looking for some guidance for our very sick bearded dragon Emily. She is one year and half old. She is recently diagnosis with MBD a month ago due to insufficient UBV light (we had Retisun 5.0 that came with the setup but we changed to 10.0 after the doctor appointment) and lack of calcium. The doctor prescribed her with calcium shot along wtih vitamin D and A. However, she is not feeling better after two weeks. I took her back to the Vet where I was told she has infections and gravid at the same time from the Xray. She has done her second out of five antibiotic shots (Ceftazidime). A third dose is due in two days. Unfortunately, she is not eating at the moment maybe due to gravid, which I am not sure. We have to syringe her with supplement and calcium. A few days ago, I saw her flip onto her back and saw her did it again today after we fed her, and she vomited everything we fed her. Can you please give me any guidance of how to take better care of her? It breaks our heart every time we saw her flip over. Thanks in advance.

Ellen
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

I am sorry your girl is not doing well!
You are using the Reptisun 10 tube bulb for her now? How close to her is it mounted?
What calcium supplementation are you giving her? It sounds like she is still having some
calcium problems right now.
Did the do a blood test on her? I hope she isn't egg bound or having other egg problems.
Were the eggs fully developed at the time of the x-rays?

Tracie
 

ellentan

Member
Original Poster
Hi Tracie,
Thank you for responding so quickly. The Reptisun 10 tube bulb is around 9 inch from her as I have adjusted closer to the light bulb. She is currently having Oral Calcium Gluconate 115mg, 0.5ml twice a day. I have ordered a blood test on her. Will review the lab results with the doctor tomorrow along with asking him the question you posted regarding how developed the eggs are. I am afraid she is not able to push it through with her condition. I have transferred her to a lay box but I don't see her digging maybe due to her fragile bones from MBD. Also, I want to ask if there is any tip to prevent her from flip over? I have a full time job so I am not able to monitor her all the time. I don't want to see her die because of flip over and not able to breath. Thanks again! Your advise means a lot to me.

Ellen
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi Ellen, sorry to hear about your poor girl. :( Can you post a few pics of her as well as her set up ?
Here's how :
https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload pics

If you can get her out in the sun for 45 minutes or more for a few days that would do her good by helping her to absorb the calcium right now. Just set her in the grass so she doesn't overheat [ depends on where you live of course ]
 

ellentan

Member
Original Poster
Hi AHBD,
Thank you for the note. Here is a few photos of Emily I took this morning along with a photo of her lay box. She appears to be a lot darker outside. I did take her outside for about 20 minutes as it is very hot here in Houston around 95 degree Fahrenheit. Any tip you can share is appreciated! Will post update after the doctor appointment tomorrow.

Thanks,
Ellen
93461-7769169034.jpg
93461-8855019221.jpg
93461-7901127259.jpg
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Poor girl, I know you're worried about her. Offer as much water orally as she'll drink [ not forced ] by spraying or dripping gently on her snout. Offer extra water in her supplements too if you can. Getting her in the sun either morning or evening before it gets too hot is good, or put a plant near to provide dappled shade.

BTW, was she eating before the vet visit ? And can you post the xrays here ?
 

ellentan

Member
Original Poster
No. She is not eating before the vet visit. I have to force feed her with the prescribed supplement. I have attached the Xray. Dr. told me to move her back to her tank since her eggs are not fully developed yet but as soon as I moved her to her terrarium, she flipped over again :( Not sure what to do about that. The vet said her tail looks less dark and her color is better although she is still very weak. He is still waiting for the lab results from the blood test....

93461-77653556.jpg
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
Oh I'm so sorry, this is a horrible situation for her to be in. She's got severe MBD due to the improper UVB, so she hasn't been absorbing any Calcium to begin with, and then she started making eggs, which is using up more and more Calcium. I'm going to assume that when her blood work comes back her Calcium levels are going to be extremely low.
It's a perfect storm unfortunately.

She's flipping over from the MBD because she's not strong enough to carry herself or hold herself up. I currently have a rescue beardie with severe MBD who was flipping over constantly for the first month I had him, it's just a matter of treating the MBD with the proper UVB light for at least 12-14 hours a day, and giving her the calcium and multivitamin supplements. My guy hasn't flipped over for about a month, he had no UVB light for the first 10 months of his life. But your girl is going to be a bit harder to treat because the eggs are going to be using all of the Calcium you're giving her, and if she's not eating it makes her weaker.

Did the vet say anything to you about giving her probiotics? I would highly recommend you giving her daily probiotics, if she's still on antibiotics and they're oral, you need to wait 2 hours or so after she has her antibiotic before giving her the probiotics, but I think it will help her stomach and appetite tremendously. She's not feeling well to begin with because of the infection she has, and then the antibiotics usually do upset their stomachs even more. The probiotics settle their stomachs and help to bring their appetites back. They should keep her from vomiting the Critical Care or whatever nutrition you're giving her, and should also help her appetite so she can possibly eat something on her own. The more nutrition and fluids you can get in her the better.

I'd take out any climbing objects from her enclosure, every time she climbs up onto anything she's going to flip over, sometimes it happens on level ground too, but keeping her tank level will help a bit. You'll have to lower her lights because she cannot climb up to bask, but it's better than her flipping over all the time. I wish I had anything else to add, but until the blood work comes back there isn't much more you can do...Is she still getting calcium shots? Or are you giving liquid Calcium?
 

ellentan

Member
Original Poster
Hi Ellen,
Thank you for sharing your experience with me. I feel much better. She is currently taking Oral Calcium Gluconate 115mg, 0.5ml twice a day along with her third dose today with antibiotic injection. The vet also prescribed Metronidazole to stimulate her appetite although I am a bit hesitated to give it to her as I read in the forums it will be rough for her especially she is really weak at the moment. I will try soy yogurt first as some members suggested in the forums. I have a question for you. Will she die if she flip over if I am not present to flip her back. She is not strong enough to flip yourself back without assistance. I am worried every day at work since I am not able to monitor her. I did tell my boys to take a look at her from time to time. Thanks again!
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

OH dear, it doesn't look like she feels real well. How is she doing today?
Her tail tip is dark, so she could be in distress. Did she enjoy being outside at all?
How long are you supposed to give the .5ml twice daily for her?
She wont die if she flips over & is on her back, but she wont be able to breathe real
well. Have you lowered everything in her tank so that she doesn't have to climb very
much to decrease her chances of falling or flipping. When will you have the blood test
results? Does he know how far along the egg development is?
Has she held her food down lately?
I hope that she feels better. Definitely keep her hydrated & let us know how she is doing.

Tracie
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
Why did the vet say that an antifungal med would help to stimulate her appetite? It will do the exact opposite, antifungal meds are very harsh on their gastrointestinal systems to begin with, and since she has a confirmed bacterial infection and has to take the antibiotics, adding antifungal meds on top is going to make the problem much worse...Unless the vet properly diagnosed and confirmed for sure through testing (cultures) that she has a fungal infection in addition to the bacterial infection, I would definitely hold off on giving her the antifungal med, as it will do nothing to stimulate her appetite and will make her feel much worse. She has to have the antibiotics, because I believe she was diagnosed through testing to have a bacterial infection, correct me if I'm wrong about this...

The soy yogurt with active cultures/probiotics will be what stimulates her appetite, as I mentioned in my first post probiotics are amazing for sick animals and people with upset gastrointestinal systems, and can also help beardies who are impacted because they replace all the normal, healthy bacteria that should be living in her gastrointestinal tract.

As long as the yogurt you are giving her is a non-dairy, soy based yogurt that says it has added active cultures or probiotics on the label, then yes, I'd feed her as much as she'll eat in one feeding, and I'd do it twice a day until she starts to eat on her own and her poops are normal in appearance and frequency. Non-dairy soy yogurt (as long as you choose one that says it has live and active cultures or probiotics) is good for her, it will not hurt her at all, and in addition to the probiotics settling her stomach and replacing the normal healthy bacteria in her gastrointestinal tract, most brands also contains added calcium, protein from the soy, fluids, etc. All of which she needs. I stopped eating all red meat and pork products along with no soda or Fast Food about 15 years ago, and I started using soy milk on my cereal (I eat a lot of cereal daily) at the same time...I usually use Silk brand soy milk because all of their products have added probiotics in the same amount as Activia yogurt, which is dairy yogurt made especially to be a source of probiotics. I also eat a ton of yogurt, I used to eat the Silk brand soy yogurt and it's loaded with good stuff for her. I now eat dairy yogurt, usually Greek yogurt, but I can attest to the probiotics in any type of yogurt helping to make my stomach feel much better if it becomes upset. I used to take a probiotic supplement tablet every day, but now just eating 2-3 little containers of Greek yogurt per day does the trick, and I also get my Calcium at the same time.

I don't know why the new trend with vets (especially reptile vets, I haven't seen this at all with any avian vets) is to prescribe sick beardies antibiotics, antifungals, antiparasitics, or any combination of the three, without having any diagnosis at all, sometimes it's even without running a single test, like a fecal, and it's usually explained to the owner that we'll put him on these medications "just in case" he does have some type of infection or parasite. It seems that exotics vets and general vets don't understand how hard these meds are on beardies, and how they usually make their appetites worse. My advice to everyone with a sick beardie who goes to a vet is #1 try your best to only take them to a certified reptile vet or a reptile vet with a lot of bearded dragon experience, and #2 refuse to put your beardie on any medications without doing proper testing and getting a definitive diagnosis. Reptiles recover from illnesses very slowly, so if a vet guesses what's wrong and gives them a broad-spectrum antibiotic to take for a month, and the antibiotic does nothing but make the beardie worse after a month, then they go back and this time they give them another round of a different broad-spectrum antibiotic plus they add an antiparasitic med as well, then those don't help after another month, and the vet then after 2 months when the beardie is now critically ill, has lost a bunch of weight and it black bearding, then they decide to run a fecal, cultures, or blood work and find out the poor beardie has a yeast infection in it's gastrointestinal tract and has to take another month of the actual antifungal med that will help them.... It's just so unnecessary and a waste of time, money, and possibly results in the beardie dying. I'll stop my rant now, lol, but this is getting more and more commonplace, and it's so frustrating because if they had just run the $15 fecal test first thing they would have been well months prior...UHG. OFF MY SOAPBOX NOW...

Keep us posted on how she's doing, but I agree that you should give the antibiotics to treat the diagnosed bacterial infection, hold off on giving her the antifungal med as it will not stimulate her appetite at all but just the opposite, and try a week of daily probiotics through the non-dairy soy yogurt a couple of times a day, and see if her appetite picks up after a week on the probiotics.
 

ellentan

Member
Original Poster
I am sorry to share Emily died this evening. We are crushed! What I don't understand is she was fine this morning when I took her out for some sun light and fed her some soy yogurt. In the afternoon, after I fed her the calcium and supplement. She threw up, bloated, and had a very dark beard. We gave her a warm soak but she passed away minutes later!! I just can't believe it. I want to thank everyone for your insight and support. It is going to take me a while to recover from this lost for not taking very good care of her :( :(

Thanks,
Ellen
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello Ellen,

Oh no, I am so sorry that you lost Emily so suddenly. :cry: That is never ever easy but that sounded extremely fast. I wonder if an egg possibly burst internally since she hadn't been improving.
I am so sorry for your loss. If you need anything at all, we are all here for you.


Tracie
 
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