Organic Chicken feed for BSFL and crickets?

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Aziara

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Hello everyone, I'm brand new here. I don't have a bearded dragon yet, I'm only gathering info so I'm sure I can take care of it properly.
I was wondering if organic chicken feed could be used to raise BSFL and to gut load crickets? Companies that sell reptiworm/calciworms/phoenix worms all brag about their 'proprietary formula' of 'custom milled organic grains'. As chicken feed is mostly grains, that's what gave me the idea.
The layer ration is high in calcium, which I hear dragons need. I would also throw in whatever veggie leftovers that my dragon didn't eat. Or would chick starter (unmedicated, of course!) with the higher protein but lower calcium, be better? I'm looking at this brand,
http://www.texasnaturalfeeds.com/products/
I notice that it includes a little DE in the ingredients, I'm not sure if it's enough to kill bugs being fed on it, it's supposed to kill chicken parasites.
Also, I hear that dragons don't like to drink from still water, would a fountain be ok or would that raise the humidity too much? I was thinking of one like this:
http://www.petsmart.com/reptile/habitats-and-decor/habitat-decor/national-geographicandtrade-sanctuary-desert-fountain-27804.html

Also, I keep getting different feeding guidelines all over the internet. What percent veggies to live food should I feed? How often? Does this change according to the age of the beardie? I would likely be getting an adult (there's lots of folks on craigslist who get tired of their pet when they're not a cute baby anymore :evil: ) Some sources say to leave pelleted food in the cage constantly as a staple, others say that it's more of a treat.
For example, would these instructions be valid?
https://www.quora.com/How-much-should-one-feed-a-bearded-dragon
Basically, the advice is a tangled mess on the 'net. :roll:
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
basically :

hatchlings
three feeds of live appropriate sized insects per day as many as they want per session offered a few at time if it's hoppy or fast moving
+ offer fresh high calcium greens daily (might not eat it).

Juveniles (6 months to 12 months)
two feeds of insects per day
+ offer fresh high calcium greens daily (might not eat it)

Subadult (12 months - 24 months)
one insect feed per day
+ offer fresh high calcium greens daily

Adult
I still give one insect meal per day (but it's smaller than the subadults get) + high calcium greens .

Good staple insects
>> BSF maggots
>> blowfly gents
and the pupae and flies , great for hatchlings and juveniles , naturally rich in calcium
>> silkworms
.....small (1-1.5 inch for sub 3 month olds)
.....medium (1.5 - 2 inch for larger hatchlings and juveniles)
.....large ( > 2 inch for beardies older than 12 months.
>> crickets / roaches / locusts , must be gutloaded with calcium rich foods and greens & dusted LIGHTLY with calcium powder.

Repashi GRUBPIE is acceptable as a backup food.

Hard and soft pellets , dubious , ok mixed in as softened croutons through they greens/salad (maybe).

Bites = rubbish food.

Insects suitable for treats
mealworms (lavae , pupae and beetles)
superworms (lavae , pupae and beetles)
hornworms
wax worms
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
Aziara":163y5tq6 said:
Hello everyone, I'm brand new here. I don't have a bearded dragon yet, I'm only gathering info so I'm sure I can take care of it properly.
I was wondering if organic chicken feed could be used to raise BSFL and to gut load crickets? Companies that sell reptiworm/calciworms/phoenix worms all brag about their 'proprietary formula' of 'custom milled organic grains'. As chicken feed is mostly grains, that's what gave me the idea.
The layer ration is high in calcium, which I hear dragons need. I would also throw in whatever veggie leftovers that my dragon didn't eat. Or would chick starter (unmedicated, of course!) with the higher protein but lower calcium, be better? I'm looking at this brand,
http://www.texasnaturalfeeds.com/products/

<<< Can't see why not.

I use Repcal Adult Beardie Pellets (dry) + carrot + calcium rich greens to feed and gutload my crickets. They love the pellets much more than the beardies ever did.

I notice that it includes a little DE in the ingredients, I'm not sure if it's enough to kill bugs being fed on it, it's supposed to kill chicken parasites.

<<< but if it's got antibiotics and DE in it .... steer clear of it.
Also, I hear that dragons don't like to drink from still water, would a fountain be ok or would that raise the humidity too much? I was thinking of one like this:
http://www.petsmart.com/reptile/habitats-and-decor/habitat-decor/national-geographicandtrade-sanctuary-desert-fountain-27804.html
<<< A fountain will definitely increase viv humidity .... prob not a good idea.

Also, I keep getting different feeding guidelines all over the internet. What percent veggies to live food should I feed? How often? Does this change according to the age of the beardie? I would likely be getting an adult (there's lots of folks on craigslist who get tired of their pet when they're not a cute baby anymore :evil: ) Some sources say to leave pelleted food in the cage constantly as a staple, others say that it's more of a treat.
For example, would these instructions be valid?
https://www.quora.com/How-much-should-one-feed-a-bearded-dragon <<< not much good .
Basically, the advice is a tangled mess on the 'net. :roll:

How old is your bearded dragon ? the feeding schedule and diet are strongly dependent on the age of the dragon.
 

Aziara

Member
Original Poster
Thanks for the replies.

It would be way too expensive to set up an entire compost bin for the BSFL with Beardie pellets, unfortunately.
I'm not sure how old the dragon I'll get will be. I'm probably be getting it from craiglist once I have a source of food going steady. Most of those are 1-1.5 years or so, and the folks throw in the tank/lights/etc, because they'll have no use for it.

The funny thing about the chicken feed containing DE... I'm remembering there was once I found some wild BSFL going to town on some chick starter I dropped under the feeder...They were super fat! You better believe my chickens had a field day with that!
I may just put some in a jar with some wild BSFL and see if they survive/thrive.

Which is another question: I've heard opposing points of view on using wild BSFL, vs those raised indoors in controlled environments. I plan to set up the bin outside until I have a good crop of larvae, then move it to a shed where I won't mind the adults flying around or the smell of the bin. This should lessen any pesticide residues they would contact and also keep it climate controlled for the winter. (I had a bin set up before, but all the larvae died off when it got cold.)
I don't really want to start with expensive reptiworms if I can get wild ones started, but could that present a problem?
 

Aziara

Member
Original Poster
Well, the larvae are growing like weeds in my test bucket...
After further research, I have discovered the answers to several of my questions. Thought I'd post here in case anyone else was wondering.
According to information I found on this forum: http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/forum/index.php, it appears that DE in moderation has no bad effects on BSFL, in fact, it prevents mites, which cause colony collapse. DE only hurts critters with chitin, as it gets between the plates and grinds away at the soft tissue between, causing them to loose moisture and dehydrate. As BSFL don't have chitin as larvae, they are unaffected. It's also less/not effective while wet, and I dampen the feed before throwing it in the grub bin.
The only concern would be the adult females getting it on them when they enter the bin to lay their eggs, but once she lays her eggs, she's living on borrowed time anyway. The adults live for less than a week.

So it looks like the chicken feed will be a good pick for the BSFL colony, though it would probably kill crickets.
 

Taterbug

BD.org Addict
If it's economical I don't see why not to use it. To be fair, BSFL are pretty indiscriminate and I wouldn't worry too much about the "proprietary diets" - companies need a selling point after all ;) Calcium in particular is largely a product of their physiology rather than diet. If I recall correctly lower fat/protein feed is better for lower fat grubs, but otherwise they will eat anything. There are numerous studies on feed effect of BSFL meal nutrient content. Personally I never bothered to buy food for them - just fed them off my kitchen scraps and leftovers. I'd love a wild colony but I'm too far north and they aren't endemic so I need to rebuy them each spring.

I have no issues feeding off a wild bin, contaminant risk is pretty low since adults are non-feeding and wont be dragging anything in.

Since the females don't like to lay directly in the food/soil the DE shouldn't bother them or the eggs.
 
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